Thorn Cycles Forum
Technical => Luggage => Topic started by: NZPeterG on October 27, 2012, 09:58:35 am
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Hi All I know that almost all Cycle Tourist's use ORTLIEB Panniers BUT I do not like PVC Drybags as damp gear stays damp etc ???
So I would like to know how they stand up to long hard World tour?
Any help would be great
Pete.....
;)
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Pete i have a couple super c bags there great you wont have any problems,
my ortlieb bikepacker plus is not made from pvc .
btw i think theres a guy on ctc forum selling rear super c panniers if i find them i'll let you know. ;)
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I do not like PVC Drybags as damp gear stays damp etc ???
I had that reservation before I first bought Ortlieb bags in 2004. It has not been my experience that this is any sort of huge problem. I do pack any damp clothing or towels under my ocker straps to dry rather than stuffing them into the pannier - always a good approach anyway. I use the cap-topped bags and find it handy sometimes to stuff a damp rain jacket under the cap where it is away from the main contents. Recently in Central Australia I had a water bag that would not close off properly and often leaked water into the pannier (a real pain in the butt, and Ortlieb too :-\ - I've decided I work much better with the MSR Dromedary water bags and will use them in preference). I simply made sure that what was in that pannier was not going to be harmed by a bit of humidity.
As for the Caradice Super C panniers, they have a very tough proofed canvas fabric. I have their large SQR Tour seatpack, and I would expect the panniers to last many years of touring. Right up there with Ortlieb in quality, but can be a bit harder to source from shops.
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Thanks all so far?
Ortlieb New Zealand say NOT to use the Plus Panniers in NZ because of the high U.V. from the Sun, Damages the Panniers. So only the PVC Panniers can be used ::)
I like Canvas Panniers in the past! So would like to Know about Carradice Super C Panniers Not Ortlieb's I have got a Carradice Saddlebag which I like But would like to know more about Super C Panniers before ordering from the U.K.
Any help would be Great.
Thanks
Pete....
???
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Hi Pete!
I'm sorry I can't personally add anything useful wrt Carradice bags except to say they seem to stand up very well in continued use among world tourists. Here's some long-term reviews of the Super Cs that might help:
http://tomsbiketrip.com/2008/01/carradice-super-c-rear-pannier-review/
http://tom.ride-earth.org.uk/articles/equipment/carradice-super-c-rear-pannier-review/comment-page-1/
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/accessories/luggage/cycling-bags-and-cases/panniers-front-and-back/product/review-carradice-super-c-rear-panniers-09-34248
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/thread.jspa?threadID=1661042
http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58774
http://www.avantum.info/carradice/download/REVIEWS%20in%20UK%20mags.pdf
Original mounting system upgraded via KlickFix: http://www.bikeradar.com/gallery/article/carradice-upgrades-mounting-on-new-super-c-panniers-17090/1/
http://www.slowquest.co.uk/content/carradice-super-c-bicycle-touring-panniers
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/830185-Carradice-Bags
That should be enough to give a good idea as to their long-term performance for others. Though I love my Ortliebs, I think nothing says "World Touring" as well as Carradice bags. They just look the business to me!
Interesting what Ortlieb NZ told you about the UV resistance of their Plus bags. For a long while, Ortlieb Europe had a link on their site detailing the UV resistance of their fabrics, by color. It is no longer available, but Robert Ewing* -- a Portland, Oregon cyclist with a decades-long background in industrial fabric design including German fabrics, which he regards highly -- has addressed these issues nicely in an article here: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?doc_id=6434 While the whole article is interesting, one part has particular relevance here...Here is a real dividing line between the Ortlieb Classic and Plus series. For maximum sun life with an uncoated outside you want a dark color, and this is true for non-waterproof panniers as well. For panniers using a coated fabric on the outside you want a light reflective color. This is particularly true of PVC coated fabrics. As PVC heats up the plasticizers offgas faster. Notice the color choices available in the Classic and Plus lines. I think Ortlieb has thought this one through pretty well.
The thin acrylic top coat on the Classic series mitigates the above mentioned problem to a great extent. But it is a very thin coating and as it get chafed and cracked in daily use these areas will tend to become brittle and develop deeper cracking and it can kind of spread like a fungal infection and there is no cure to stop it. One of the byproduct of UV deterioration of PVC is an acid that attacks the woven scrim. Top quality coaters add buffering compound in the coating to neutralize this effect.
I can add that after about 19 months' use and sun exposure, my black Ortlieb Plus (Cordura) handlebar bag is now a slightly browner shade, less black than when it was new.
'Hope something in the above proves helpful.
All the best,
Dan. (...who likes the function of Ortliebs and the look of Carradice and thinks each works well in different ways)
*See Robert Ewing's profile here: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/directory/?o=1&user=Western_Flyer&v=1C)
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Pete,
I have used super C panniers for the last 6 years.
I am not a world tourist, only week tours and day rides in the UK, plus shopping every other day.
Maximum load carried in the 4 panniers 30Kg
The panniers are waterproof and my short tours have all been very wet at times. The last 6 summers in the UK have been very poor for warm sunny weather. The canvas material gets wet to touch but the insides and contents are dry.
I reproofed them once with Carradice wax, not sure if that was needed but it was an interesting job. After waxing the panniers definitely picked up wind blown dust a lot easier.
I wore a hole in one with the end of a U lock poking through, easily fixed with McNett SeamGrip to the rescue.
I found the super C hooks a bit difficult to fasten and unfasten in cold weather. That plus the hooks not really fitting the front of the Thorn low loader made me retrofit Arkel Cam Hooks. I find these a lot easier to load and unload from the bike.
I have a son with the same rear panniers set up and he is very satisfied with them.
What else would you like to know?
Julian.
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I have full sets of both brands and greatly prefer the canvas approach personally. North Carolina is hot and steamy and I value that the Carradice approach moves air enough to lessen, noticeably, the fermented sock syndrome! I also preffer their front bag for the fact of it having a flat bottom. With the Ortlieb ultimate 5L that Bianca used this summer the contents would slide under the divider each day as it bounced to the lowest spot in the rounded bottom and she would need a daily ten minutes to re-organise her two hundred or so little lotion & potion stash. Lastly, I really have taken a liking to the straps on the Carradice bags, both front and rear. The front has turned into a drying rack for my soaked clothes. I simply wrap my shirt through the straps and air dry them, though many days were so humid that even six hours later the shirts were still wet while we cycled through the sauna that was the south last summer. But inside the bags I think it could've been really ugly! My theory was that the sweaty shirt on the front stunk so badly - the bugs stayed away! Yeah, they went to find cyclists with ortliebs instead. :D
On the back the straps expand so much that I carry my foam mattress in the loop on the right side. I'm really pleased with the Carradice bags - as I think you can tell - and recommend them. All that said though there are also the Canadian Arkel bags which, while I have no experience with them, seem very nicely thought out. One guy we cycled with for a while had the font handlebar bag and I was very, very impressed with it. I'd get one for myself - if I weren't completely broke! :D
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Hi Paved,
Sorry for being so slow at replying! but I have been working long hour's, and seating out in the Sun reading :)
I ordered a set of front and rear Carradice Super C panniers and hope to get them before the new year? If I do i'll go on a short 5+ day cycle tour (on and off road) as I have time off until the 7th ;)
hanks Pete.....
:D
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I am sure you wont be dissapointed in them. I love mine and wouldnt be without them
Like to see what they look like on the yellow Nomad
Andy
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Hi Peter
How are you planning on mounting the front panniers? Which rack are you going for?
Andy
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Hi Andy
I'm running Thorn Front and Rear :)
Pete....
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I'm running Thorn Front [rack]...
So, you switch to the Thorn Nomad rigid fork for touring, right? Have you tried something like the Tubus Swing front rack to carry panniers on the sus-fork as an option?
Best,
Dan.
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So, you switch to the Thorn Nomad rigid fork for touring, right? Have you tried something like the Tubus Swing front rack to carry panniers on the sus-fork as an option?
Best,
Dan.
Hi Dan,
I have looked at "Tubus Swing front Rack" But do have Thorn Lowrider Rack and Nomad STD Fork's.
So i'll run with STD set up so far ???
Any way tonight I got home and find My new Carradice Super C Panniers ;D
Pete....
;)
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Got My new Carradice Super C Panniers ;D
Fitted onto "Tom"
Pete......
;)
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Got My new Carradice Super C Panniers
Fitted onto "Tom"
Pictures, Pete! We want photos! ;D
Best,
Dan.
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Hi Dan,
I'll try before next year.....
Pete.................
:P
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Carradice Super C Panniers are the dog's nads, I bought a pair last year and love them. It's time to upgrade my trusty old Raleigh Royal, and I'm on the prowl for a Thorn touring bike on which to hang my trusty Super Cs.
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:D
Pete . . . . . . . .
:o
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@ angiepoos
Got to agree with your findings on the Super Cs. Mine have come through a lot of use over a very wet, snowy and muddy winter and have perfimed admirably. All they need now is a good clean.
Have you decided which Thorn model you are going to go for?
Andy
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are dogs nada good ... or bad ... or does it depend on the dog? ???
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are dogs nada good ... or bad ... or does it depend on the dog? ???
So your saying?
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don't understand the expression .... never heard it before.
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So your saying?
means
don't understand the expression .... never heard it before.
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Wow, I have had computer programs wander off into zones like this... gets mind bending!
The context seems to make it clear that "the dog's nads" are a good thing. The SuperCs are well loved!
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I had that reservation before I first bought Ortlieb bags in 2004. It has not been my experience that this is any sort of huge problem. I do pack any damp clothing (http://www.robustbuy.com/clothes-c-1083.html) or towels under my ocker straps to dry rather than stuffing them into the pannier - always a good approach anyway. I use the cap-topped bags and find it handy sometimes to stuff a damp rain jacket under the cap where it is away from the main contents. Recently in Central Australia I had a water bag that would not close off properly and often leaked water into the pannier (a real pain in the butt, and Ortlieb too :-\ - I've decided I work much better with the MSR Dromedary water bags and will use them in preference). I simply made sure that what was in that pannier was not going to be harmed by a bit of humidity.
As for the Caradice Super C panniers, they have a very tough proofed canvas fabric. I have their large SQR Tour seatpack, and I would expect the panniers to last many years of touring. Right up there with Ortlieb in quality, but can be a bit harder to source from shops.
Yes they have a very tough canvas fabric and i have used them..
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I still have one set of ortliebs, the sport packer plus. I sold the others. I like the ortliebs ... but I only do not like the version two attachment system and wish I had bought the older ones without the plus. The reason is that I find that once fitted, I don't care one toot for the tool-less adjustement. The older system however can be adjusted to any size, while the plus models use steps, steps that I find don't fit perfectly enough for me. there is always a gap on one side or the other ... especially on the thorn rear rack.
Now, while I like the ortliebs ... I LOVE the carradice bags. I'll never get another system after discovering what one day old socks, in an airtight bag, in 46 degree, humid weather can do to your sociability ratings! :D
Nope. Give me the old fashioned, tried and true. Canvas for me from now on.
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Hi Pavel!
It won't do a thing for smelly socks, but if you need finer steps in your Ortlieb QL-2 hook adjustments than the rails allow...a cable tie does wonders for taking up the space. I zipped a cable tie onto the rear toprail of each front Thorn Low-Loader front pannier rack and find the fit is now "just right" whereas the front bags rattled a bit before.
I love my Ortlieb PackerPlus-series bags, but think nothing says "Adventure" like the look of Carradice.
Best,
Dan.