Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Rohloff Internal Hub Gears => Topic started by: KDean on May 27, 2021, 11:16:58 am
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I'm seriously looking at getting a Thorn with a Rohloff , How easy is it to change the rear tire out on adventure ? Thanks .
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Depends on the tyre, some can be a real B'stard to get on and off the rim! this also applies to the front wheel as well. As for the Rohloff making a difference ... Nah ... The Disc rotor is more of a problem than the hub, which is the same as a SS or Fixie
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It's no problem. It is recommended to shift the Rohloff gear to 14th before unscrewing the Ex-box then undo the wheel and remove. It's less hassle than with a Shimano hub gear. When the wheel is replaced you may need to jiggle the shifter very slightly to get the Ex-box to get it to fit and make sure you fully tighten the fixing nut.
As already noted, changing the tyre itself depends on the tyre + rim combination.
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It's a little more difficult if you don't have the Ex-box.
On my Raven Tour I have the internal gear mechanism, with this you have to turn two bayonet connectors (I think it is a quarter-turn) to disconnect the cables. And remember to connect them again after removing/putting the wheel back. Not a big deal, and I find it easier than a derailleur wheel.
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Ha ha
That made me smile.
In the early years of Raven riding, I couldn't understand why my wheel wasn't coming out when I wanted to change the tire.
Helps if you disconnect those 2 bayonet connectors!!
And of course, reconnect.
Re turning the shifter; either 1 or 14 appears to be ok.
Another rookie mistake was finishing up with gear 1 as 14 and 14 as 1 !!
I so love a learning curve.....
Best
Matt
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The rationale behind selecting gear 14 (or gear 1) before disconnecting the Ex-box is that the shifter (and Ex-box) could change position while the Ex-box is disconnected but the hub won't change gear. Then, when refitting the Ex-box it's just a matter of making sure the shifter is turned to the right setting. It's a precaution one learns to do after forgetting it the first time the Ex-box is disconnected!
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Not even knowing what an Ex box is is putting me off of the idea, but thanks .
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Not even knowing what an Ex box is is putting me off of the idea, but thanks .
Not all Thorn bikes have an Ex-box.
Not that they're bad.
My Raven Tour doesn't have one.
Plenty of folks speak highly of the Ex- box arrangement.
No doubt one or three will be along shortly.
Best
Matt
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Dropping the rear wheel out of Thorn Rohloff bike is easier than any derailleur bike, there's no mech to get in the way.
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I have a Raven Sport Tour (no Ex-box). Removing and refitting the rear wheel is quicker and easier than with derailleur equipped bikes.
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Not even knowing what an Ex box is is putting me off of the idea, but thanks .
There are (at least) two gear changing arrangements at the "hub" end of a Rohloff gear system.
The Ex Box (external gear mechanism) simply screws onto the hub, so is very easy to remove if you want to take out the wheel.
IMO much easier than a derailleur.
The internal gear mechanism runs two cables to the hub. There are two bayonet connectors to allow you to split the cables and remove the wheel. A bit more fiddly than the Ex box, but I still reckon it is easier than a derailleur wheel once you have done it once or twice. I do remember cursing the connectors the first time I did it.
Rohloff AND derailleur are IMO both easier than a Shimano 8 speed gear, on these the cable clamp bolt has to be unhooked from the selector mechanism at the hub. I find this very fiddly to do as the clamp bolt is very small and close to the greasy bits near the sprocket. On the Rohloff, the cables are on the (clean) left hand side and are much easier to access.
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There are two Rohloff cable disconnection schemes.
The first allows old roadies to feel at home with the Rohloff (great for winter training) because it allows bare wires at least partway, to the two bayonet connectors.
The other takes a covered run from the rotary control on the handlebars all the way to the EXT Klickbox on the hub, from which it is disconnected by a single thumbscrew. The EXT connection scheme is more modern and marginally more convenient and maybe faster by a few seconds.
The EXT box has one significant advantage over the bayonet connectors in that a broken cable doesn't strand the Rohloff in the wrong gear for getting home. If you have an 8mm spanner (American: wrench) you can take the EXT box off and use the hubside nut that it drives to select a compromise gear to get you home, or to change gears before significant hills. I suppose it makes a difference if you're old or unfit or have a limp or a philosophical conviction against pushing your bike. (I'm not joking: I am of the opinion that, considering how easy it is to change gear and the wide gear spread, any Rohloff owner who has to push specified his gearing wrong for the use he puts his bike to.) A ground-down (to save weight) automobile brake spanner is a suitable tool, and Draper used to offer a flat, lightweight 8x10mm open-ended spanner specifically for cyclists, or you can carry a socket if you have a suitable driver (usually 6mm or 0.25in) already in your toolkit. I carry a titanium socket with a stub sticking out of it for direct fitting to the driver handle in my toolkit; it came out of an X-Tools kit that I bought water-damaged (irrelevant to the single piece I wanted out of it) to get that single rare tool. Never had occasion to use it. You can make something like that too by gluing a correctly sized bit into the drive side of the lightest socket you can find.
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To answer the OP's question directly:
In theory it is no more difficult to drop a Rohloff wheel than another hub geared wheel, considerably easier than most, and easier than other hub gear makes. In practice, since part of the attraction of the Rohloff is lower service demands, you will find that many, perhaps most, Rohloff owners have banded anti-puncture tyres fitted and that the number of times you have to drop the wheel are fewer than with other transmissions which answer to different paradigms.
By way of example, I have dropped the wheel on my Rohloff bike three times over the last 10,000km, twice for self-induced but not necessarily avoidable pinch flats (the only flats my Schwalbe Big Apples suffered -- I run them at ultra-low pressure at very substantial speed on potholed roads) and once by choice to change the half-worn tyres.
I don't think dropping the wheel is anywhere near a critical consideration in specifying a Rohloff as it would in fact be faster than on a derailleur bike or a bike equipped with another hub gearbox. Furthermore, regardless of the fact that it is theoretically easier and faster to drop a Rolloff-equipped wheel, in practice it likely happens less often than with other wheels.
Dropping a Rohloff-hubbed wheel is a proper thing to consider for the thoughtful cyclist new to the Rohloff and about to spend significant money on his choice -- and after enquiry to dismiss as irrelevant, especially if specifying popular banded touring tyres, for which see this forum passim.
As for the difference between the bayonet and EXT box connections, you can safely choose on aesthetics if you're an old roadie, or convenience if you're looking to minimise service requirements.
Good luck with buying into le système Rohloff.
PS. I see that while I was posting this, Martin has already clarified the two switching versions offered OEM for the Rohloff but I'll let my remarks stand as approaching the question from a different viewpoint
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Not even knowing what an Ex box is is putting me off of the idea, but thanks .
The bike frame has cable guides for either the EX box or the internal gear, the model of bike determines which hub.
I have only used the EX box, but I suspect that I would prefer the EX box based on easier cable replacement.
Leaving the shifter in gear 14 is not that big a deal. I usually forget to put it into gear 14, and as long as I do not touch the shifter when I have the wheel out, everything goes back together just fine. The reason for gear 14 (or if you want, a different gear that you remember), is that if you move the shifter with the wheel out, you want to put the shifter back into the gear that the hub was set for before you re-assemble.
If you did not know what gear your hub was in, moved the shifter while the wheel was out, when you reassemble the shifter might be set for the wrong gear. For example, you reassemble and your shifter says you only have gears 3 through 14. In this case, your lowest gear in the hub is gear one, but your shifter thinks that is gear three. Set it to the lowest gear, unscrew the thumb screw, remove the EX box, set the shifter for gear 1, reassemble and everything should be fine.
Or if you only had gears 1 through 12, you know that 12 is the highest gear, so unscrew and remove the EX box, set shifter to 14, reassemble.
It is really quite simple.
If you have used indexed derailleur bikes for a long time, you are used to shifters that have no slack in the shift cables, the cables are always tight. Rohloff has the indexing in the hub, you need to leave some slack in the cables for best shifting performance, so your shifter will feel a bit loose. It takes a little time to get used to that, but it is not a problem in any way.
The big thumbscrew on the very dirty looking part that hangs down that the cables feed into is the thumbscrew on the EX box. (Thorn recommends against kickstands the way I mounted mine, pretend you did not see the kickstand.) No tools are needed to undo the thumbscrew.
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I've changed tyres / repaired flats / serviced bikes with in internal design of Rohloff hub, a deraillieur, and the Shimano Nexus hub. The Rohloff is definitely the easiest, even with the slightly fiddly bayonet connectors.
It is important to keep the bayonet connectors greased to prevent them getting stiff and sticky - I used a spot of copper slick.
The Nexus is, in my opinion, the most awkward.
Lewis
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The Nexus is, in my opinion, the most awkward.
+1
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The Nexus is, in my opinion, the most awkward.
Agree. I have used a lot of different rear hubs over the years.
My own rating in order of ease of wheel removal:
- single speed freewheel
- single speed fixed
- SRAM Spectro 7 (has a Clickbox), equal to Rohloff with Ex box and equal to SRAM 3-speed (clip on cable holder)
- Sturmey 3-speed (one cable connector to unscrew)
- Sturmey S5/2 5-speed (two cable connectors to unscrew)
- Rohloff with bayonet connectors (IMO more fiddly, but cleaner, than the Sturmey screw-on cable connectors)
- Derailleur
- Shimano Nexus 7 and 8 speeds (Alfine 8 and Alfine 11 are probably similar)
And worst of all, any hub with a drum brake or roller brake or coaster brake that has a reaction arm that needs unbolting. A Rohloff with the long reaction arm for use on bike frames without suitable Rohloff compatible dropouts would also fall into this category.
I'm of the opinion that a Chainglider actually makes removing a rear wheel easier, because it organises the chain and keeps things cleaner. But like the Rohloff bayonet connectors, the first time wll be longer as you have to work out the quickest way to get the rear part off and note (or remember) the number of ridges showing to get the optimum adjustment when refitting the wheel.
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Not even knowing what an Ex box is is putting me off of the idea, but thanks .
The bike frame has cable guides for either the EX box or the internal gear, the model of bike determines which hub.
I have only used the EX box, but I suspect that I would prefer the EX box based on easier cable replacement.
Leaving the shifter in gear 14 is not that big a deal. I usually forget to put it into gear 14, and as long as I do not touch the shifter when I have the wheel out, everything goes back together just fine. The reason for gear 14 (or if you want, a different gear that you remember), is that if you move the shifter with the wheel out, you want to put the shifter back into the gear that the hub was set for before you re-assemble.
If you did not know what gear your hub was in, moved the shifter while the wheel was out, when you reassemble the shifter might be set for the wrong gear. For example, you reassemble and your shifter says you only have gears 3 through 14. In this case, your lowest gear in the hub is gear one, but your shifter thinks that is gear three. Set it to the lowest gear, unscrew the thumb screw, remove the EX box, set the shifter for gear 1, reassemble and everything should be fine.
Or if you only had gears 1 through 12, you know that 12 is the highest gear, so unscrew and remove the EX box, set shifter to 14, reassemble.
It is really quite simple.
If you have used indexed derailleur bikes for a long time, you are used to shifters that have no slack in the shift cables, the cables are always tight. Rohloff has the indexing in the hub, you need to leave some slack in the cables for best shifting performance, so your shifter will feel a bit loose. It takes a little time to get used to that, but it is not a problem in any way.
The big thumbscrew on the very dirty looking part that hangs down that the cables feed into is the thumbscrew on the EX box. (Thorn recommends against kickstands the way I mounted mine, pretend you did not see the kickstand.) No tools are needed to undo the thumbscrew.
Thank you for posting the photo and giving an explanation. Much appreciated as it looks the same as the rear-end of my new Mercury Mk3. One thing still puzzles me. What is the 'coin slot' widget in the middle of the box for? I keep looking at it and have resisted the temptation to fiddle just in case a spring goes whizzing past my ear.
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The coin slot thingy is the thumbscrew that everyone is talking about ... put Rohloff in gear 14, undo the coin slot thingy (you only need a coin in the slot if some idiot has done it up to hard!!) Remove the ex box, undo QR, drop wheel.
I can't believe just how easy it is to drop out, and refit the wheel on our Raven Twin with the EX box fitted ... just need a bit of care to refit because of the Hope Disc. Now on our Dawes derailleur tandem, it's a whole different ball game, because of the drag brake (No Feckin QR on that cable GRRRR!, Plus the mount for the arm) on the "Clean" side", and of course the derailleur mech on the other side. Painful, slow, and messy, although have only had to do it twice in the wild (on the same tour) since buying it in 1989.
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"It's easier than on a derailleur " Why didn't someone say that in the fist place .
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Next time you go to a dentist or doctor, ask if they have a few spare pair of disposable gloves you can have. If you have to fix a flat on the road, your hands will be cleaner. I keep a pair of disposable gloves with my spare inner tube on my bike.
I often have a coating of oil or grease on some of those parts near the EX box. And there should be a bit of grease inside the EX box to prevent wear, it might also extend the life of the cables a bit.
One of my trips, I suspect that the airline had my rear bike wheel on its side, left hand side down. Before the trip I changed oil in the hub at home, so it was topped up with oil. And I think some of that oil ended up causing a rather greasy mess during my trip, photo shows what I mean.
But, the trip after that, I drained the oil and rinsed it at home before my trip. Flew to my destination, and added the oil there. I had a coating of oil but not that bad of a mess on that trip.
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...... and if you fit Marathon Plus tyres or any other "tight" tyre for that matter look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUFVrl0UT4 first.
Sure stops expletives becoming part of tyre changing.
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"It's easier than on a derailleur " Why didn't someone say that in the fist place .
Probably because most of us do not care to remember derailleurs even pejoratively...
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Andre should use words more elegantly! Why not simply say 'disparagingly' ? 8) 8)
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Andre should use words more elegantly! Why not simply say 'disparagingly' ? 8) 8)
I had to look that look that one up. But hey-ho, it helped me learn one of my 5 new things a day.*
Also helped me with my CROOCHIE-PROOCHLES and MISSLIENESS.
Best
Matt.
* At task I sometimes fail but aspire to.
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Andre should use words more elegantly! Why not simply say 'disparagingly' ? 8) 8)
I had to look that look that one up. But hey-ho, it helped me learn one of my 5 new things a day.*
Also helped me with my CROOCHIE-PROOCHLES and MISSLIENESS.
Best
Matt.
* At task I sometimes fail but aspire to.
Here's one for you, Matt:
Charisma is the art of discombobulating the merely elegant by being effortlessly efficient.
Pejoratively and disparagingly don't mean the same thing, Leftpoole. I didn't reject disparagingly only for the ugly architecture of its -ingly formation, but because pejoratively better fits the meaning and impact I aimed for. It's more efficient to use the precise word that carries your meaning. Try Fowler for the subtle differences between words which to the careless -- or the "elegant!" -- may seem similar.
We're being very rude to the OP, who is probably hoping to hear something relevant to extracting the rear wheel from the frame rather than just excuses for Leftpoole to raise the profile of his two netsites by republishing the links to his sites.
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...... and if you fit Marathon Plus tyres or any other "tight" tyre for that matter look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XUFVrl0UT4 first.
Sure stops expletives becoming part of tyre changing.
I wish I'd known the trick with the straps he used mounting the tyre. My Schwalbe winter spikes area pig to change and where I needed to get help from the wife to hold the tyre in place as I struggled getting the bead over the rim. Next tyre change will certainly contain less expletives than the last one after that great video tip. Thanks for sharing.
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I wish I'd known the trick with the straps he used mounting the tyre. My Schwalbe winter spikes area pig to change and where I needed to get help from the wife to hold the tyre in place as I struggled getting the bead over the rim. Next tyre change will certainly contain less expletives than the last one after that great video tip. Thanks for sharing.
I use some long velcro cable ties to provide extra hands to help hold awkward tyres in place. They live in the bag on the bike and could be useful for other applications in an emergency.
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Never use a little word when a diminutive one will do ;)
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Actually I’m of the opinion that just because I have a couple of links to some photographs, it doesn’t mean people actually view them!
I think that to ‘talk’ about things other than Rohloff is all good thing.
I think people are of the opinion ( experience in meeting others) that Thorn only make Rohloff hubbed bicycles. It is a real shame. I ve owned a couple of Rohloff bikes and I’ve owned and ridden dozens derailleur bicycles. I like those massively heavy Rohloff fitted cycles, but a very very much lighter ride with derailleur fitted bikes and drop handlebars for ‘proper’ cycling are understated on this Forum.
Getting to language use,,,,,,, it breaks up the monotony of learning how to translate Americanising of the English language. ‘ Swap’ out for example should read simply as ‘swap over ‘ or ‘change’.