Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Non-Thorn Related => Topic started by: ZeroBike on December 22, 2012, 05:35:51 pm
-
Is it wrong to cycle nearer the middle of the road in situations where you dont want motorists to overtake?
Usually I ride pretty close to the kerb.
I have noticed that there are two types of motorists. Those that give plenty of room when overtaking and those that almost take the handle bars off as they pass by.
The majority do seem to give plenty of room, however I have noticed that when there are double white lines (no overtaking allowed) motorists, in general, seem to overtake way too close and seem to want to get back to the kerb so quickly that they are cutting me up.
Is it wrong to cycle close to the middle of the road in these situations to prevent motorists from actually trying to overtake?
Im sort of weighing up the balance between my own safety and being a good road user.
Thanks
-
the motorist have this strange idea that they own the road so be very weary of them it onnly take one lunitic to kill you.
keep well in no matter the situation even if you have to stop ;)
-
Zero',
In such situations (remember, I ride on the right here in 'Merka), I'll sometimes put an arm out at about a 45° downward angle, roughly halfway between signaling a left-turn and a stop. This has the effect (I think) of making me appear wider (much like raising your arms to look taller and more intimidating to a threatening, aggressive animal!). If the car then doesn't go out a bit, at least I have a hand free to push off from the car (I've done so on more than one occasion) and at least avoid getting clipped by the sideview mirror.
The law varies by state here, but mostly, cyclists are required to ride as far to the right as "practicable" unless they need to avoid a hazard (flash-opened car doors come to mind). Things are improving a bit in some places Stateside but not in others, where bicycles are viewed as sidewalk toys intended for children or expensive sports toys intended for adults; neither of which "belong" on the road (Oxford, Mississippi and Cedarville, CA in the view of some residents who yelled at me for riding in the street at all, anywhere). When I was planning a tour through Utah, a quick review of state traffic laws there revealed cyclists are required to yield to all other vehicles, rather than vice versa.
There were times while riding in congested parts inner cities of The Netherlands when clearances were tight enough I was tagged by rearview mirrors as the cars literally scraped by, one time putting me into a traffic divider as the fietspad merged from off-street to on-street and back again and another by a young woman actively using her cell phone while driving (*very* unusual there in my experience at the time). I had a long-lasting bruise on my hip by the time my tours there ended.
Here, car drivers have a disconcerting habit of adjusting speed and timing so they pass when directly opposite a cyclist, making things tight for all. Also, on rural two-lane roads, oncoming cars who are passing tend to pass cars widely, sometimes dropping a wheel over the fog marker at the side of the oncoming lane. It's a heart-stopper to see a car coming at you, going 70mph/113kph+ with one wheel in the very lane you're riding, usually alongside a ditch, preventing easy escape. Yikes!
You asked...Is it wrong to cycle close to the middle of the road in these situations to prevent motorists from actually trying to overtake?
...and then opined....Im sort of weighing up the balance between my own safety and being a good road user.
The perfect solution, I think! Sometimes a cyclist can better weigh if it is safe to pass than a motorist can. Also, sometimes the cyclist is subject to road hazards (storm grates, broken glass, etc) a car driver cannot see. I think consideration going both ways would help a lot.
Stay safe out there!
Best,
Dan.
-
People call it "taking the lane" and as far as I know it is legal most places and also a good idea in many situations. I will often do it at intersections, e.g. so nobody steers their car right over my bike. But yeah there are lots of crazy motorists about so you have to take the personalities into account along with the configuration of vehicles etc.
-
Well, here is a case where somebody got convicted of reckless driving when they "took the lane":
http://www.examiner.com/article/high-profile-take-the-lane-case-from-texas-goes-against-cyclist (http://www.examiner.com/article/high-profile-take-the-lane-case-from-texas-goes-against-cyclist)
-
the motorist have this strange idea that they own the road so be very weary of them it onnly take one lunitic to kill you.
keep well in no matter the situation even if you have to stop ;)
This year I have twice come very close to being totally wiped out, first by a coach that ran me off the road, second by a lorry that forced me into a ditch. Unfortunately both were in your country.
-
Yikes! :o So glad they missed you, Alan; that's just waaaay too close.
Best,
Dan.
-
This year I have twice come very close to being totally wiped out, first by a coach that ran me off the road, second by a lorry that forced me into a ditch. Unfortunately both were in your country.
say alan what about that boozo that nearly hit us he was in a campervan :o
-
Yes but he was only a nearly. :o The lorry caught my pannier which cause me to go off balance and end in the ditch.
-
Etiquette....
being helpfull?
On my usual route around the sunny lanes of South West Scotlandshire, I was rececntly cruising through a couple of tight, well known - to me - bends.
I was aware of a car having slowed down behind me for a few of the bends.
As I was ahead of him, I had a clear view as to the road being empty so I waved him on.
He drew along side me (open top Jeep) and told me in no uncertain terms that he himself would decide when to overtake and didn't need advice from a cyclist.
As he then sped past me I made the mistake of cupping my ear to indicate that I hadn't heard him.
He then stopped and got out of his car. I was somewhat amazed to see the car rise up about 4 inches as he unloaded his rather large 6' 6" frame onto the road!
Fortunatley I had stopped a good 10 yards behind him and I think the distance made him think twice about explaining his point of view in my face.
When he had finished I must admit to being quite flustered not being used to such confrontations.
So I jumped back onto my bike.
The adrenaline must have kicked in because I began peddling fast and over took him before he could start his car. I recall thinking I was mad to start everything off again but luckily he drove past me with just a dirty look.
Amusing in hind sight but since then I have not bothered to offer such 'helpfull' advice to motorists.
Thoughts folks?
-
old chinise proverb.
good kick on the nuts will stop flying elephant ;)
-
I like the way I saw the local cyclist in Africa rided :o on the other side of the road ::)
Why ???
Because they can see the on coming car's and truck's :P and GOT OFF THE ROAD FAST! :o
Pete...
:-X
-
My 2 cents: Stop people from overtaking if you can't be sure they give you clearance.
It's maybe annoying for cars, but it's for your own safety. I do so in Belfast, UK as taxi drivers, people in Mercs/Audis and SUVs along with white van man will otherwise cut me up.
Another classic here is people turning left just before you and not indicating, of course, another reason why I tend not to let cars get past.
I would advice against cycling with 2 people or more on the road unless it's needed for safety, as this can irritate people on roads where they could overtake if you cycle 1 abreast.
(though it's not illegal in the UK to cycle 2 abreast)
And if skimming through traffic or staying left of cars while not illegal, it's good to consider the motorists as they and stay out of blinds spots.
In other countries, bets are off I guess as it depends on the general traffic flow.
In NL 99% of the time you get treated well so there I don't block the road...I don't have to, roads are wider and you rarely get somebody overtaking you much too close.
Seem poor Dan got unlucky enough to meet a few bad drivers/cyclelanes there :-[
-
Seem poor Dan got unlucky enough to meet a few bad drivers/cyclelanes there
No worries; I think mostly it was a matter of narrow cycle lanes at those points coupled with busy but competent drivers who seemed in a hurry to go about their business. Overwhelmingly, drivers did wonderfully to give way, though things got contact-close sometimes in dense city traffic as they can anywhere. I would have fared far less well here in the 'States. It was far harder to drive there (at least between Schiedam and the car-rental in Rotterdam; once I got on the main highways I was fine) 'cos of my extreme concerns for hitting unseen cyclists who naturally expected me to see them.
Marten Gerritsen wrote..."You'll know you're accepted into the fold when a passing motorist brushes you with his mirror, instead of giving you a wide berth as if you're an alien! ", with characteristic good humor. For his very entertaining guide intended for foreigners riding first-time in the NL, see: http://www.m-gineering.nl/touringg.htm Roundabout priorities seemed to vary regionally, as he mentioned, too.
All the best,
Dan.
-
Zero
My approach is to move towards the middle of the lane so that an overtaking car has to move significantly into the next lane. In the car drivers mind they are making a decision to risk a collision with any other vehicles that may be in that other lane. Hopefully they will make a better decision about overtaking. It usually stops them trying to squeeze past me in their current lane and I get more room.
I take this approach when I can see (or hear) the car coming in my mirror and regardless of where I ride the car has to take some action to avoid me. I would prefer to ride where it doesn’t matter if I am seen by a car (e.g. on the shoulder). But if it does matter that a car sees me then I want them to be making a good decision about how they overtake me. It also gives me more room to ride away from the cars line if things get dodgey.
I see this as consistent with staying to my side of the road as far as practicable. With the practicalities being my safety and the condition of the car’s paintwork.
Peter
-
I conducted a test. There's a short section of road here beside one of the canals. It's one way, with a narrow gardening strip including some grown trees on one side, and on the other parking. At it's end, where it rejoins other traffic, there is significant narrowing. On the other side of the canal is a short section for a quick return to the beginning, so that making twenty or for that matter fifty or hundred runs was no hassle.
The outcome of my test made quite clear that passing decisions were highly influenced by the perception of who the cost of a misjudgement would fall on.
When I rode over on the passenger side of cars, where other cars were parked, the drivers would pass me and push me into the parked cars, even when they could see at the narrowing that there wasn't space for both of us. On the wider part of the road, they would not move over to give me space. Cars would not slow to pass me.
When I rode over on the driver side of cars, fewer cars would pass me, and they would almost all slow because they would have to move over to the parked cars to give me a berth that wouldn't damage their paintwork, but at the same time they didn't want to move far enough to scrape their cars against the parked cars. This is quite contrary to the logic of the situation, because in fact, since I was on the driver side, and they could clearly see how much space there was between me and them, they gave me more space than they did when i was on the other side of their car, where they couldn't see, and where if they made an error I would be pushed into parked cars.
***
On the narrowest of the country lanes where I ride, I take the lane, and then, when the car behind has sufficiently slowed, go to the "wrong", driver side, so the driver can clearly see how much space there is.
Andre Jute
A little, a very little thought will suffice -- Maynard Keynes
-
In Bulgaria the drives (there are not that many of them compared to the UK) are not bad at all. The only exception which can be quite disconcerting at times is that they think nothing of oncoming vehicles overtaking straight across your lane. The only close call I have had was getting close to the summit of one of my favorite climbs a coach coming down the hill decided it was a good time to overtake an artic. In that time of climbing when adrenaline over rules both fatigue and common sense I refused to pull off the road and stop and forced him back onto his side.
Not my sainest of decisions
Andy