Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Non-Thorn Related => Topic started by: JWestland on November 29, 2012, 01:58:28 pm
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Hi -
It's getting that time of year again, I was surprised by some ice on an incline I was mashing up, the XTC held it's stride and even though front/back wheel alternatively skidded (this on sportcontact slicks) it refused to go and both rider/steed got up the hill fine. Good bike moment... :)
(this is how on "honks" apparently! http://www.perfectcondition.ltd.uk/Articles/honking/Honking.htm)
Tire-wise: I saw that Schwalbe Marathon Studded tires (heavy but very good grip) and non-studded Continental Winter Tires come recommended on the forum.
Cycling-wise: I would tend to go heavy gear as possible and low RPM to ensure there's more control/traction (A fixed bike will always have more traction/control due to direct drive)
What are your winter stories/tips? Mine will be weenie as the only heroics were 2 years ago when there were 2 inches of snow and my commute turned into a dance with black ice but no doubt some of you seen 20 inches of snow ;)
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ever since i broke my collor bone on black ice i'm very weary about going out when theres ice about.
jeez that rymes might put a few chords to that. ;D
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Public transport here is woeful, and I am not licensed yet to be a danger on the road ;D
Bear in mind that some country roads for cars can be hazards too...
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-132521.html info on how to fall if the worst happens ;)
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I have used the Marathon studded tyres for the last two winters and think they are excellent. I have cycled on sheet ice with no problem. I tend to run them at about 60 psi at that there is still a good central normal tread and edge grip on the studs. The recommended way is to inflate to 80 for good roads and 45 for icy or slipery roads.
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i think i'll just get the turbo trainer out
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The recommended way is to inflate to 80 for good roads and 45 for icy or slippery roads.
That sounds about right for maybe the 35 mm width tires. I have the 47 mm wide winter tires. For those, 45 is more like the good road pressure and maybe 30 or 35 when the roads are messy.
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So...the Marathons are 555 grams heavier per tire than my sport-contacts. And will have a metric ton of rolling resistance. NOT FUN, If I have to, I have to of course :)
Continental’s TopContact Winter are an alternative.
Does anybody has any experience with these? A mere 150 g more per tire, and there won't be a meter of snow where I live, ice is the main hazard.
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Jawine,
I am with BP on this one - if riding on smooth ice is your requirement than I have found the studded Schwalbe Winter Marathons to be exemplary.
They also cope with transition to and from tarmac well which is what usually happens as you ride along.
A bit noisy and slow, but better than falling off and breaking something which is what I think one of my sons has just done commuting around Aberdeen.
I think he has cracked ribs, but he is not telling all yet…
Riding on rutted ice or in deeper snow needs tyres with longer spikes and a lumpier tread than the Winter Marathons.
I gave up trying to ride in those conditions a couple of years ago when we had the deep freeze and got out the rollers at times.
Julian.
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i think i'll just get the turbo trainer out
Was thinking of y'all last night as i was standing on my Nordic Air Stalker, my earphones playing Mozart, a good book (one of my early novels!) up on my iPad, trying to pretend I was a train. Maybe I should make that video Jags is always talking about, but about riding in the lanes, then I can show it as I exercise...
Truth to tell, even our worst weather some here would consider mild and pretty attractive compared to what they're used to at home. We have black ice occasionally, but so infrequently that cyclists point to a particular piece of road on a hillside and the guy pedalling next to them, "That's where Andre slid back down the hill like a clown." Advantage of the ultra-low stepover on my bike: when I hit the black ice and started slipping off the crown of the lane towards the frozen ditch, I got both feet on the road, and could balance and even steer marginally, but without enough traction to stop, so I slid down to the bottom of the hill on the wheels and my feet in a sort of narrow diamond. Hilarious, at least in retrospect. At the time it seemed so dangerous, I stopped a couple of cars to warn the drivers. One lady who'd already tried every other way to get home to her children, paid head and crawled over the hill without incident, and one smartass in a powerful Audi snapped, "I drive on icy roads all the time," and stormed off at speed. I heard him crash and got off the narrow lane a way back so the police and ambulance could pass. That little stretch of black ice (I know it was little because I know to an inch where the water runs across the road that caused it -- I ride that lane most days of the week) was quite as dangerous as it seemed. I had a lucky escape because of the low stepover of my bike and the remnants of a sportsman's reflexes. Ever since, on cold days we take care over that section of the lane on cold days.
Andre Jute
If you aren't paranoid, you have shouldn't go on the roads on a bicycle.
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It won't be a bit of help to you I'm afraid, but waxing nostalgic, I made and used my own studded commuting tires some 34 years ago at age 18, using "pop" (self-clinching) rivets and backing plates. Worked well at a time when studded bike tires didn't exist in the US. Got me up Skinner's Butte each year (large 208m lump of basalt uplift in the center of town, with a steep access road: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinner_Butte ). Getting down was the problem. When coming home at night, one of my great joys was touching the rear brake on drier spots and seeing the shower of sparks that resulted. A symptom, perhaps, of being 18 at the time.
I have pretty well given up riding in snow/ice when we get it here in the Willamette Valley, precisely 'cos it is snow/ice, as in a layer cake of each. We sometimes rarely get dry, fluffy snow, but more often it is wet snow. Once down, it either partially melts of gets covered with little hobnails of freezing rain (we call it Ice Nine after the Kurt Vonnegut story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice-nine ), then more layers of snow. When you cut through the snow with tires...there's more layers of ice and snow beneath, and all of it sticks to tires, packs them up inside the mudguards, and stops the lot from turning. In Central Oregon, there's dry powder snow (skier's delight) and I can plow through 50mm or so of the stuff with no problem.
I do remember taking falls in the bike lanes next to traffic, and one Moment (that's what F-1 pilots call "incidents") where I came really close to sliding under the wheels of a pickup truck. That kind of put me off more of the activity. Luckily, no broken bones or scrapes in Ice Nine or snow, so I count myself lucky rather than "skilled in falling" (there were some curbings/kerbings that could have done a pretty good job on me if I'd been a bit less fortunate).
Stay safe out there, Jawine.
Best,
Dan.
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So...the Marathons are 555 grams heavier per tire than my sport-contacts. And will have a metric ton of rolling resistance. NOT FUN, If I have to, I have to of course :)
Continental’s TopContact Winter are an alternative.
Does anybody has any experience with these? A mere 150 g more per tire, and there won't be a meter of snow where I live, ice is the main hazard.
I use Winter Marathons for the snow & ice & wouldn't be without them for winter commutes. I have also used the Conti TopContact Winter tyres which offer surprising grip in Snow - arguably better than the Winter Marathons, BUT I was never brave enough to try the Continentals on the ice...
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Tx for all the replies :)
I went on ice two years ago, extra leg scar, previous year a combination of a dryer milder winter, walking bits, cursing the city council and balance kept me upright...
LOL Dan the follies of youth? ;D
With "ice" I meant "ice patches on cycle lanes/roads" not cycling over an icy lake ;)
I don't expect much snow here, but the cycle lanes are never gritted so there's always puddles/damp patches that freeze over for Extra Excitement.
What's best, one path isn't gritted AND has no lampposts, and has to be ridden every Wednesday for 4.5 miles, with wee hills for extra fun ;D
So, do those low snow but icy patches conditions need the Marathons or will the Continental’s TopContact Winter do? It seems the consensus here is Marathons though I read online reviews that TopContact are fine too for that use. And they're not mega super heavy.
(my Christmas pressie is sorted in any case...)
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A few years ago I bought myself some studded tyres for winter use, after falling off on patches of black ice a couple of times, once getting a really huge and spectacular bruise that eventually extended from top of thigh to just below the knee.
Mine are Nokian Hakkapeliitta W240 in 26 inch size and 1.95" width - a fairly heavy, knobbly tyre, but not designed as an all-out off-road tyre. The studs are tungsten carbide tipped, so they don't wear too quickly on dry tarmac.
In South Brittany I don't need them at all some winters (2011-2012 was particularly mild), but there have been a couple of winters recently with long periods of icy roads. Typical scenario here is black ice present early morning, disappearing or cleared by road salting by the afternoon.
These tyres work well on ice and light snow, but with heavy snow (very rare here) they clog. Rolling resistance on dry tarmac isn't too bad - they are significantly slower than the Marathon Supremes I usually fit on that bike, but faster than the off-road tyres I used before in slippery conditions (Hutchinson "On the Rocks", which had a fairly soft but grippy rubber compound). The studs make quite a noise on dry tarmac.
I am still very wary when riding in icy conditions - local drivers aren't used to ice here, and very few motor vehicles have studded styres, so even if I am reasonably sure the bike won't slip I still have to watch out for sliding cars. So I ride less when there is ice.
Had the Nokians for about 5 years, but only about 700 kms use so far.
I generally fit the Nokians when the first icy spell is forecast, and remove them in March. To reduce wear on dry tarmac, on days when I think black ice is unlikely I use one of my other bikes.
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As there's a snow/ice/bad winter forecast for the UK I had a look around for the cheapest and...
http://www.nextdaytyres.co.uk/details.aspx/SCHWALBE-MARATHON-WINTER-26/113
And
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/schwalbe-marathon-winter-performance-rigid-mtb-tyre/
But for extra service and a few quid more:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/schwalbe-marathon-winter-hs396-rigid-tyre-c-w-spikes-26-x-175-inch-%2847-559%29-prod24447/
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would you use them on front only or both wheels ,
if the back end goes south you can control it but the front is a different story.
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Not that I want to promote the competition but Spa cycles have the Schwalbe Winter 26 by 1.75 in for 30ukp which is the cheapest I have seen them. Got the job tomorrow of putting them on the bike and taking it out to run them in. Then need to do the same with the Ice Spiker Pro's. Going to be a bit of a noisy slow cycling week
Andy
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jags the real answer to that question is do you want to be safe or do you want to be sorry.
If you want to be safe you have two options in slippery or icy conditions. First you can sit at home looking out of the window and dreaming about being out cycling. Or you can fit both winter tyres and get out and have a ball riding your bike.
If you want to be sorry in slippery or icy conditions, you can go out and ride on ordinary tyres.
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to be honest i wont go out in icy conditions only since my off mind i did at one time ride in all wateher, i usually grab the dog and we go walking up the canal lovely anytime of year ;)
how those in the RSF do it is beyond me and havent spotted any studded tires with those guys ;)
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My choice is:
Get up stupidly early as I need two buses to get where I need to be, I can cycle to bus number 1, and lock bike. But that takes 20 minutes, then I need to get bus which takes 35 (rush hour traffic) that's 55 minutes, £3.50 later and it means and getting stuck in a stuffy bus with grumpy people.
(Did I mention I don't like buses and get car sick?)
Or...
Put the winter tires on, which will increase commute from 40 to 50 minutes I guess, not need to be in a mad panic to get bus, get some fresh air and learn to cycle in adverse conditions which is always handy. Also the click-click-click of the studs will no doubt have hilarious effects, people thinking of stepping in front of me and changing their mind last minute :P
(forget about the gym, no driving license and HAVING to be somewhere works best)
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In my experience (in Norway) the Marathon Winters generally work very well, but after a thaw and refreeze, when all that is left is armoured ice it is time to give up. There just isn't enough weight for the studs to bite in (as compared to a car with studded tyres).
For fresh snow (like today), normal tyres are fine (meaning that I have not got round to changing my tyres yet!), apart from having to take care where people have enthusiastically cleared the snow to the ice below.......
Cycling in snow/ice is slower, but mainly due to deliberately going slower to give more time when things start to go wrong - like car drivers.
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Now sold out as Spa Cycles, next cheapest deal is Wiggle
No doubt SJS will still have em while all other shops are sold out :)
Funny enough when I fell last year it was on a gritted area...one tiny patch was missed...just when you think you're safe! ;)
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Yesterday I went out for a 200Km ride in sub-zero temperatures (I know it was bonkers) and most of the roads were fine but some had some nasty ice on. As 99.99% of the route had dry roads I think winter tires would have slowed me down so much I would never have got round. I was riding more normal Pasela Tour Guards which got over any ice I found on the straight apart from one section on a steep slope which I walked. The worst bits were junctions on minor roads but thee were dry lines through them all.
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wow that was a hell of a spin you put me to shame :-[
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That was almost certainly the hardest ride of my life. I think cold saps your energy and you certainly need more refuelling stops than you do in summer which I reckon added 2 hours to the completion time. The GPS glitch that added 7km to the length did not help, but I was really glad of my winter boots and gloves that kept my extremities toasty.
I don't normally do such things in winter but I'm attempting to complete a RRtY (http://www.highergrangefarm.fsnet.co.uk/PeakAudax/rrty.htm) and I only have 2 more to go. I'm really hoping for some unseasonally mild spells in Jan and Feb
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mean this in a nice way ;)
but i think you boys that audex are mental how you cover such miles is way beyond me.
mind you i've often done a few centurys and man i can tell you i was glad to get off the bike at the end.
but horses for courses fair play to you ;)
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Hardcore ;D
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mean this in a nice way
but i think you boys that audex are mental
So does my wife and most of my friends ;D
I only rode my first 200k this year and then I got the idea to try an SR series (200, 300, 400 and 600k) but after trying a 300k and being a bit of plodder I decided I could not hack the sleep deprivation so switched to this instead. I don't think it is an easier option a lot less people have completed one of these and I am definitely only going to do it once.
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i came across a video on utube scotland i think it was 400km audex, one couple just made the time by seconds if it were me and i didn't make the time after slogging it out for 400 km i would MELT the entire bike there and then. ???
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i came across a video on utube scotland i think it was 400km audex, one couple just made the time by seconds if it were me and i didn't make the time after slogging it out for 400 km i would MELT the entire bike there and then. ???
Never a truer word spoken in jest!
Those organizers must pretty dim not even to give people a "Completion" certificate after such a slog. Bloody hell! To give them nothing for the effort is an insult. I doubt many would try a second time. Encouragement is the foundation of improvement. -- Andre Jute
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Andre remember the maracycle dublin to belfast and next day belfast to dublin ,
well i done the first one we actually raced it first to belfast and first group back to dublin man it was tough going 200 miles total,
but when we got to dublin as we passed through the finish gates some dude was handing out medals as quick as he could . What a anti climax at the end of a hard 2 days ;D ;D
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Also the click-click-click of the studs will no doubt have hilarious effects, people thinking of stepping in front of me and changing their mind last minute
Jawine,
I think you should get a set of Ice Spikers like AndyBG's so you can scare pedestrians out of the way! ;) See:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=5269.msg27965#msg27965
If I saw that bearing down on me...I'd run! :o Yeaaaaahhhh!
All the best,
Dan. (Like squirrels, they are, pedestrians; always going this way and that and changing their minds at the last moment...)
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Those organizers must pretty dim not even to give people a "Completion" certificate after such a slog. Bloody hell! To give them nothing for the effort is an insult. I doubt many would try a second time. Encouragement is the foundation of improvement.
A ride organiser does have a bit of discretion. If someone rolls in a few minutes over the time limit they will probably not be recorded as DNF, but on the other hand a control does have to close at some point as the controllers want to get home. Most beginners start with 100k rides and unless they have had severe mechanical problems they are unlikely to finish out of time.
Most audaxers are not put off by failures it just makes them more determined.
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Those organizers must pretty dim not even to give people a "Completion" certificate after such a slog. Bloody hell! To give them nothing for the effort is an insult. I doubt many would try a second time. Encouragement is the foundation of improvement.
A ride organiser does have a bit of discretion. If someone rolls in a few minutes over the time limit they will probably not be recorded as DNF, but on the other hand a control does have to close at some point as the controllers want to get home. Most beginners start with 100k rides and unless they have had severe mechanical problems they are unlikely to finish out of time.
Most audaxers are not put off by failures it just makes them more determined.
no i will take more convincing than that ;D ;D
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B-bu-but...I do my 300-400K/day rides just for the "fun" of it!
All the best,
Dan. (who wouldn't mind getting a medal for them, all the same...)
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A Clip my colleague made a few days ago riding Schwalbe Winter Marathons the morning after rain fell on frozen ground:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihyyAlASyo0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihyyAlASyo0)
- Impressive tyres - I wouldn't be without mine.
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Very impressive, Brummie. I see he's running a front disc as well; must help a bit through the puddles, having it up out of the splash zone. You folks must be having some real cold over there. Here, it is still oddly warm (and stormy). Currently as I type this at 14:42, it is 10.5°C. Doesn't feel like Winter! The December that wasn't...so far (at least in terms of our usual weather).
Best,
Dan.
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A Clip my colleague made a few days ago riding Schwalbe Winter Marathons the morning after rain fell on frozen ground:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihyyAlASyo0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihyyAlASyo0)
- Impressive tyres - I wouldn't be without mine.
yes i'm impressed brummie but i'm still not buying the tires .
i'll be walking from now on. ;)
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A cheaper version of the Marathon Winter is now available from the German sites for around 20 euros, it's exactly the same but minus the outer edge studs, which don't see much contact with the road/ice/snow anyway.
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1040/a84964/winter-100-spikes-26-x-175-wire.html
Also 700c sizes http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1041/trekking-spike-tyres.html
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And the ice was back today, patches of ice on (ALWAYS OF ALL PLACES) the mixed pedestrian/cycling areas.
My fixie (Panaracer Pasela Tourguards) held it's stride, that's one advantage of fixed: Full speed control and always traction.
Just a small backwheel skid out of a corner. Not the scary ones like last Wednesday.
Crud tomorrow will be fun...I better go slow...
I am off to buy some Mr Spikeys as I nicknamed the winter tires.
That's an impressive Ice Vid and that bike does look like a Mad Max movie prop with the studs ;D
Jawine (who finds black a much more menacing colour than anything else...and likes how Dan finish his posts ;D
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A cheaper version of the Marathon Winter is now available from the German sites for around 20 euros, it's exactly the same but minus the outer edge studs, which don't see much contact with the road/ice/snow anyway.
http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1040/a84964/winter-100-spikes-26-x-175-wire.html
Also 700c sizes http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/k1041/trekking-spike-tyres.html
I'm quite glad of the outer studs - especially where the road cambers on the narrow country roads...
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I'm quite glad of the outer studs - especially where the road cambers on the narrow country roads...
A camber is not going to be steep enough to bring the outer studs into play, they would only touch the road if cornering hard which isn't likely in icy conditions anyway, or if the tyres are run at very low pressure, which is an option of course.
I've had a Nokian Hakkapelitta 106 tyre on the front for the past 4 Scottish winters and they have no outer edge studs, and have gripped very well on all roads.
http://www.starbike.com/p/Nokian-Hakkapeliitta-W106-1030-en
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And now I already bought Marathon Winters ;D
Picture coming soon of XTC in its winter guise (dynohub, big lights, and Mr Spikey tires)
So ruealexander, you only use a grippy tire on the front? I was planned to use the MW for both rims.
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Jawine,
I have Schwalbe Snow Stud tyre on the rear wheel which is maybe better for good drive wheel grip in snow but only has studs on the outer edge. The idea is if icy to reduce the pressure to bring the studs into use. In reality, I just leave mine at a medium pressure and they are fine.
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Tx :)
That's what others here have said too, that 20psi is really overkill and they grip at 30 too.
More ice today and one of the local cyclist posted on Facebook he slid all the way down an incline in full view of everybody else. He was fine, but pride is of course severely hurt... ;)
0 degrees celsius forecast tonight trip back will be fun, I think that 20 degree incline can wait for today, bit of cyclocross down the lawn is the plan ;D