Thorn Cycles Forum
Community => Non-Thorn Related => Topic started by: Pavel on December 25, 2016, 09:09:56 pm
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I can't find the perfect tent. Well over the last few years, perfect has been a hammock, but now that I'm in the early stages of planning a six to eight month tour of the USA I'm thinking about tents again.
Some people like ultra-light. Not me. I'd rather huff and puff all day, hauling loads that the designers of the Nomad had in mind for it and be comfy while camping, and safe in emergencies. So the Cost vs weight vs strength vs convenience ratio in my value system has the weight in last place. It's kind of "color" first, "setup ease" second, "space to spread out" third .... and I'll compromise on all the rest.
With all that said - here is my problem. I have the "perfect" tent already. Perfect except for one thing, the thing I value most. It is a Henry Shires Tarptent Cloudburst. ( https://www.tarptent.com/cloudburst3.html (https://www.tarptent.com/cloudburst3.html) )
which is super easy to set up, is wonderfully large, well ventilated (a strong plus here in the muggy south) and also pretty lightweights at 1.5 kilo. Why oh why can't it have been made in stealth Green?? :( I enjoy stealth camping. It's partly to save money for those extra mealtime beers, but mostly because I like the lack of structure when I meander. I don't like having to "be somewhere".
So here is my crazy improvement idea - has anyone else ventured thus? I'm going to spray paint that nice glow in the moonlight silver color away. I think, anyways, and hope to get a nice dark green and brown camo sort of end result. Would this have any chance of working, or just a fast way to destroy the tent? The Tarptents are made of ripstop nylon, and impregnated with silicone, so I wonder what sort of spray paint might adhere to it, and have the trait that it won't stick together like some paints can, after it dries.
Any advice? Or should I just splurge and buy an Hilleberg Anjan 3? That is a lot of beer money! I'm still going to pack my hammock and tarp btw, so this will be for when I'm forced to devolve to sleeping on the ground - and with that perspective a Hilleberg would Really squander tragic amounts of the food and beverage budget. :)
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So here is my crazy improvement idea - has anyone else ventured thus?
I once dyed my summer-brown front lawn a nice spring green in the dead of night to surprise my neighbors the next morning :D so I'm probably uniquely qualified to take a stab at answering this... ;)
Would this have any chance of working, or just a fast way to destroy the tent?
Mmmmmaybe but unlikely to the first, a hearty "probably" to the second. While I have spray-painted fabric in camo patterns, I can tell you the liquid paint has solvents that are unkind to certain fabrics and the dried paint is more likely than not to plug and/or alter the pores of the fabric, altering everything from waterproofness to breatheability.
If you do decide to go ahead, the silicone impregnation will be the stopper. It is almost impossible to get paint to adhere to it. Worse (having tried something similar but unrelated myself in the past), the silicone can affect the paint's cure rate so it will indeed tend to stick to itself after folding and especially after it has been in compression against itself for some time...i.e. in a stuff sack under transport.
It is possible to buy a camo mesh drape that can be placed over whatever you want to um, camouflage. I once tried it with an entire car when stealth camping in desert sagebrush. It was a red car, and the camo mesh drape did wonders at "disappearing" it while stopped camping. Something to consider, I suppose. These mesh drapes are pretty light and compress/stuff pretty small. Might be worth a try. See: https://www.walmart.com/ip/HS-Camo-Mesh-Netting-MossyOak-Country-54-x-12/49783264
I'll close by saying I admire your thinking, Pavel, for it is by such bold strokes true innovation grows and thrives. Well done.
All the best,
Dan. (CBI and lawn dyer)
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Interesting idea, Pavel. I wouldn't take a chance with your present-perfect tent, though.
Here's an idea: Why not consider getting a silicone-nylon tarp ("siltarp") in green, and rig that when you need some camo? Disadvantage?--weight is about 400 gms. Advantage: versatility--protection against wind if you need it; pitch it instead of your tent if there's no bug problem; pitch it if you expect rain, to give yourself a nice dry spot for cooking and packing, etc; if you don't pitch it at night, just use it as part of your pillow.
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just put a green tarp over it. :o
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I swear I was not drinking anything but water all day when I posted this, but now after both sensible replies, I wonder how I could have missed such an obvious approach - the tarp I mean. I've got several in dark brown and dark Olive, and one is coming with me in any case already! Talk about not seeing the big pink (or dark olive) elephant in the room! :D
I really like the tent. I've gone through so many and everything about this one is fabulous, especially the venting and setup ease. I've long thought to try painting it, but never really seriously as I hammock now where ever I can, so the tent took a back seat. I badly want to see the South West of this marvelously beautiful country and thus the new fever. It was actually a random chance where I saw John Saxby's journal of crazyguyonabike that pushed me out of my malaise. Seriously. When I'm struggling up a hill in insane heat - it will be HIS name on my lips! :D
I remember on a ride from North Carolina to Florida, pushing hard against the wind on the outer banks late, in the dark and stopping by a campground closed for the season. I snuck in, twenty minutes after seeing another one of those $5000 fine for illegal camping signs, and set up tent for the night. The full moon, so romantic sometimes turned my Kelty into a beacon of reflected light everywhere that the fabric was white. I was nervous all night. ... tarp it shall be.
Thanks! Tent likely saved an unfair death. :D :D
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pavel a gray tent in ireland would be perfect for wild camping sure every feckin day is a gray day so a fells might never be found, enjoy the new tent and have a super tour.
jags.
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John ... those photos you posted on your recent trip brought back so many memories for me. I used to live in British Columbia in the early 80's, in Osoyoos and Kamloops. I rode (my honda 750K) all over that state and Washington state. Seeing your photos ... well it's not tolerable all of a sudden to be content without my usual wanderlust. I have to see the rockies again, nice and slow, somehow, sometime soon. You, Dan, Jags and others - can't hog all the fun!
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pavel don't take this up wrong but i don't like that tent, i just watched the video on how to erect it man that's a lot of hassle to fit an extra pole and anti condensation sheets , the tarp tent scarp 2 is a better design imho pitch all in one extra pole for free standing.
or am i missing something ,mind u i'm no tent expert .each to there own,
jags.
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I have to see the rockies again, nice and slow
Thanks, Pavel, for your kind words. Fabulous countryside, for sure, and the best way to see it is at a deliberate pace.
I did meet a couple of guys on the ascent of Washington Pass, who were travelling ultra-light on road bikes. They each had only a couple of water bottles and a small day pack. (The latter was barely enough to hold the food I was eating each day!) They were going from Spokane to the San Juan Islands, no camping, staying in hard accomm each night. Problem is, on that road there are long gaps between motels & the like. They told me that on one day, they'd ridden 162 miles through the hills.
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No Jags ... I looked at all the tents carefully and the scarp would be a terrible tent for me. Firstly I can get the cloudburst up in about three leisurely minutes, secondly, I have the extra pole and the optional condensation sheet for cold weather, but have never used them. I carry the middle pole for a case that I do something stupid and step on or otherwise break one of the two needed poles. After seven horrible Big Agnes tents (and a few European style tents) , I really appreciate having identical and simple poles. Lastly, I really dislike the scarps lack of headroom. There is only one narrow and quickly dropping spot where I can sit erect and not have my head in the material.
But all of that is a moot point compared to the biggie. I live in the south where the humidity at night often is 100 percent and the night-time temperatures can be in the nineties ( ~ 32 - 36 Celsius) for nights at a stretch. I stealth camp and have found that low to the ground ventilation is completely useless in the grass and the Cloudburst is the coolest feeling tent I've ever had. I can pass out in it, in the broiling heat, much earlier! Priceless! That is what makes this horse .. perfect fer my course! Except that color. The ventilation qualities of the Hilleberg's are what stops me from buying one, more than the cost. They just don't relate to weather like we have here, in the south.
I had that daughter as a shield when I last toured in 2012. Now I look like a homeless bum ... and America in my part of the country seems to treat strange people with suspicion, if they look to be vagrants (like me now :D) All that open land out west and some of the traditions of Europe - makes me want to move where there is more freedom to be experienced. Recreational vehicles and fancy hotels are not for me. I don't call that "getting away from it all", at all. :)
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No Jags ... I looked at all the tents carefully and the scarp would be a terrible tent for me. Firstly I can get the cloudburst up in about three leisurely minutes, secondly, I have the extra pole and the optional condensation sheet for cold weather, but have never used them. I carry the middle pole for a case that I do something stupid and step on or otherwise break one of the two needed poles. After seven horrible Big Agnes tents (and a few European style tents) , I really appreciate having identical and simple poles. Lastly, I really dislike the scarps lack of headroom. There is only one narrow and quickly dropping spot where I can sit erect and not have my head in the material.
But all of that is a moot point compared to the biggie. I live in the south where the humidity at night often is 100 percent and the night-time temperatures can be in the nineties ( ~ 32 - 36 Celsius) for nights at a stretch. I stealth camp and have found that low to the ground ventilation is completely useless in the grass and the Cloudburst is the coolest feeling tent I've ever had. I can pass out in it, in the broiling heat, much earlier! Priceless! That is what makes this horse .. perfect fer my course! Except that color. The ventilation qualities of the Hilleberg's are what stops me from buying one, more than the cost. They just don't relate to weather like we have here, in the south.
I had that daughter as a shield when I last toured in 2012. Now I look like a homeless bum ... and America in my part of the country seems to treat strange people with suspicion, if they look to be vagrants (like me now :D) All that open land out west and some of the traditions of Europe - makes me want to move where there is more freedom to be experienced. Recreational vehicles and fancy hotels are not for me. I don't call that "getting away from it all", at all. :)
I saw one gent speeding by in the other direction on our North Carolina to Texas trip, with just the setup you describe. A moment later his van drove by two minutes or so behind him. It really struck me how I'm at the far end of some spectrum with my prefferences. While he looked very happy and was surely enjoying himself (which seems to be the trick in life :) ) I would not enjoy that at all. I wonder sometimes what the deep seated reason are, that motivates us cyclists. I don't think its simple. For me, the best guess I have is that it is the feeling of no schedules. That is why I don't like to use warm showers, ride too long with others or even to have a very firm map plan. I want to get up when I feel like (late often) and do exactly what I feel like. If that is to wander far from my plan ... perfect. If it's to sit under a tree for a few hours just looking at the clouds - yes! The bicycle trips daily mileage is something that I try not to think about. I hate the idea of trying to say "do 100 miles" because that changes the trip into me focusing on that line on the road while I race too fast, with too much focus. There is something marvelous about not looking at a clock, and sometimes not even knowing what day of the week it is, while one marvels at how beautiful the world is. That is my kind of escape.
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100% agree i stayed in a hostal once hated it to many young dudes talking crap ,i have a friend who toured across America few years back him and his buddy used warm showers all the way and motels and they had all the best camping gear you could have, couldn't see the point in hauling all the gear if they weren't going to use it :'( .
yeah i suppose your spot on about the Tent get it up fast loads room i like that,i had the hilleberg akto one time hated it why people rave on about the akto is beyond me .
anyway i got a new phone off santa so im a happy camper again no idea how to use it but sure that doesn't matter .
jags.
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,i had the hilleberg akto one time hated it why people rave on about the akto is beyond me .
anyway i got a new phone off santa so im a happy camper again no idea how to use it but sure that doesn't matter .
jags.
Hello,
The Hilleberg Akto is a tent perfect for what it is designed for, which is, one person with little luggage. Thousands have used Akto tents including myself with great result. To say you cannot understand peoples enthusiasm is to look at your experience only. You require more room because that is how you operate with no idea of compactness (?). I no longer use an Akto which is sad, my reason being that I have mobility problems because of a spine injury. Compact, small, minute or even spacious are all terms associated with the Akto.
Please for pitys sake stop slagging off what is a fabulous pioneering tent, it does you no good at all in peoples eyes. In my opinion.
Regards,
John
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had a good Christmas had we ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Always useful to remember that everyone has their own preferences and way of going about things, one no more or less valid than another, so long as it works.
I'm happy as can be in one-man tents, but that's because I value low weight over space, only "need" that much room, and only use my tent for sleeping. I almost never layover to wait out bad weather, preferring to be out in it making forward progress. Not right for everyone. Economics plays a role for me as well. I've owned tents costing USD$300-$400, but sold them off in favor of my current favorites. On sale at half price, I paid USD$60 and bought three as a backstop in case they didn't last (the first one shows no signs of dying after 5+ months of nights, so I should be good for awhile). Leaves more money for Adventuring, air fare, and food.
I do like my green or a sort of mushroomy grey-green for stealth/wild camping, though, so that's a priority for me.
Good thing there's so many choices available. ;)
All the best,
Dan.
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Always useful to remember that everyone has their own preferences and way of going about things, one no more or less valid than another, so long as it works.
Dan.
Preferences are kinda like life - always a work in progress, it would seem. I always find my superior, on any given day, to anybody else's, until a few days later, when I find completely different, better ones! :D But then, I often enjoy arguing with myself too.
But on a more serious note, I've found in the past that I always sort of sabotage myself with most things that I choose or set-up. I know better, or should at least, but I seem to always first go down the wrong road for me, and make a compromise. I seem to choose a "do it all" strategy. Like one perfect bike, or one perfect tent or even the best tire for a multitude of posibilities. Then time and time again, I wind up unhappy with my compromise setups, and re-spend a fortune, and buy more extreme, choices that are more suited to one thing. What I mean is, that in Tents (and just about everything else) I'm much happier, long term, if I have a huge heavy bomb-proof tent, and at the same time an extremely small, uncomfortable (perhaps) tent that is the very opposite. Same with how I pack. Either I take two kitchen sinks or next to nothing. I've been very happy in both cases, but when I try to split it down the middle, somehow "neither fish nor fowl" works poorly for me.
Does anyone else approach things the same way?
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Does anyone else approach things the same way?
Yes, to a degree.
I do tend to pack for purpose, meaning what I take changes dramatically depending on the tour I have planned, duration, where (geographically), when (seasonally), and availability of resupply along the way.
Either I take two kitchen sinks or next to nothing. I've been very happy in both cases...
Sounds familiar to me, Pavel!
At the ultralight end of things is a long 300-400km day ride out, then back the same on the next day. Carrying a lightweight camping setup allows me to explore a little at the far end before making camp at night and again before returning the next morning. In this case, weight compromises speed and distance, so I go as light as I can. If pressed, I can even push this into a multi-day setup if I can find water.
I've managed to do this with as little as jersey pockets filled with energy bars and sleeping in my clothes under a mylar space blanket in summer, but it gets cold on mountain passes and I can count on shivering awake for good at 04:00, so not as much fun as it might be.
More typically, I can get by minimally with a Carradice Camper Longflap, augmented with my 8.5l Ortlieb handlebar bag if needed. Panniers and racks weigh more, so are not commonly included for this use. For this setup, I carry basics: Summer-weight down bag, minimal inflatable mattress, spirit or tablet stove and a cup to boil water, wind shell, light fleece or longsleeve jersey (depending on the season, mostly summer) and my tent.
At the other extreme is full-on expedition mode with racks for four panniers, HB bag, and perhaps my Extrawheel trailer to haul more water.
For me, water is always the single heaviest item to carry regardless of the journey's length. I prefer to carry it solely on the frame, but depending on where and when I go, I often have to carry more -- up to 26.5l, which is 26.5kg in weight *plus* containers. That's a lot of weight, but my camps are so often dry and riding in the desert or on mountain ridges where creeks and streams are in valleys far below, there's often little chance of finding a ready water source, so I must carry it.
...when I try to split it down the middle, somehow "neither fish nor fowl" works poorly for me.
Agreed. In-between these extremes is a mix of the two. What I carry depends on many factors and varies with every.single.tour. I find I am happiest when I can most closely match equipment to purpose and need. I'm getting better at it after nearly 40 years, but I still miss the mark from time to time. Because I am risk averse, being off-target generally means I end up carrying more than I need. I think of it as a "training bonus"! ;) I often reflect that at any given moment, I'm*not* using some 95% of what I carry. My ideal is to carry an inventory where by tour's end, I've used about 80% of what I haul with me, the remaining 20% being that irreducible minimum of what I "would really need in case of".
If I know where and when I'll be going and can plan in advance, then I'll be reasonably happy for the duration. The real challenge for me comes on longer trips where I must plan for greater variations and eventualities, and even those contingencies are addressed if I simply carry a more comprehensive kit. When the tour is in the middle of nowhere, then I must carry everything I need to be self-sufficient for the expected period plus an estimated safety margin in case of emergency. Going alone in places where I might expect to see a car once every 2 weeks to 6 months, I need a bit extra in case I sprain an ankle or fall. In the case of my 4 months-long double crossing of Europe, weather was the real variant. At the beginning and end of the tour, I awakened to morning temperatures of 3.3°C/38°F. In Serbia's two heat waves, temperatures were 43.3°C/110°F by 10:00 and 45.5°C/110°F for much of the day and with high humidity. I drank 8.5l of fluids on each of the hottest days, plus more for cooking. At times, I had high winds and days of rain, so rain clothing was needed as well as my sun jerseys. Fortunately, I'd packed with such variations in mind, so I did not find myself wanting at either extreme. At the coldest, I slept in my clothes with a silk liner in my down bag in my tent with fly. On the warmest nights, I slept in my underpants under my mesh tent canopy alone using only my silk bag liner.
I'm in the midst of (re)organizing my equipment lockers to make equipment selection easier. I've got a plastic storage box for stoves, another for pad/mattress options, a number of sleeping bags to choose from, and several options for my carry-along tool kits. Same for clothing by season and type. The idea is to "shop" my inventory to match each tour. The one thing that doesn't change is my tent! I've settled on a one-person model for all seasons and reasons, as mentioned above. I might go with an even lighter model that packs even smaller, but then durability can be compromised, and I want to get full value from my kit and investment by using it over a longer period. This is one reason why I avoid using lightweight panniers. One fall can be the end of them, and it is no fun trying to complete a tour with the remains duct-taped together. Been there, done that.
All the best,
Dan.
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As always (it seems), Pavel, "it depends..."
The easy choices for gear are the tours in likely-to-be-predictable conditions of weather and terrain. When I'm riding in the shoulder seasons (here, spring and fall -- I don't ride or camp in winter) or in the mountains, however, I err on the side of caution, and that means more bulk and weight for clothing, shelter and sleeping, and usually food as well. From my own experience and that of others, I've seen a few too many uncomfortable moments, occasionally getting closer to dangerous.
A long tour such as the one you're considering will pose a few challenges of different climate zones and terrain. Maybe you can plan for those by moving north or south with the sun, so that you don't find yourself, say, high in the Canadian Rockies in late August or in September. (Some cyclists do such things, of course, but I'm not one of them.)
Your big Cloudburst seems a wise choice for such a long ride -- spacious though it is, I think I'd find my 1-person Moment DW a bit claustrophobic over a long period, esp in bad weather.
All that said, in my prep for a trip such as yours I'd try to scale back what I carry, not "planning for every eventuality", so as to allow myself space and weight for a good book, for example. Travelling in the States as you will be, you can surely buy whatever you're likely to need, if you left it at home.
Cheers, John
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Dan and John. Those are really good bits of information to ponder. I think you two should move down to North Carolina for a few years. Cycling strength in numbers. It would be fun. :)
On the other hand, my wife retires in two and a half years ... perhaps it's time for me to see new horizons. I've always like the west, and she originally hails from Arizona, so moving in that direction should not be too hard a sales job. Too busy around here anyways. I yearn for lonely stretches. It seems that you two have them. Better fighting weather or water supplies that traffic and tourons of the road- I feel.
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size of that country your spoiled for choice, i reckon in a former life i was a gun slinger in the wild west probably where i get my love for cowboy movies ;D ;D
at the risk of getting my head bitten off im going on another rant about tents. ;)
i bought the nature hike cloud up 2 man few months ago copy of an american tend seedhouse i believe ,but there's loads faults in it the flysheet just doesn't fit properly the poles were defo made by Micky Mouse but saying that there's a fair bit of room in it, so if i can get new tabs sewn on the fly for more guy points and maybe how to keep the ridge pole stay in place i might be on to a winner .
the mountain hardware i have is 3.5 kg but it would give the akto a lesson on what a tent should be.lads no matter how good a tent is you really should not pay more than £100 for it and that's the truth.so get off your horse and drink your mile buddy. ;D
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Hey Pav
We own the Marmut Limelight tents.
a 2 man and the 3 man.
Both excellent tents and easily bought in the states.
The older versions are better than the new models.
Even easier to get in the states.
We bought a 3 man on ebay and got it shipped to Oz.
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Force Ten Nitro Lite