Author Topic: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England  (Read 7872 times)

flocsy

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2023, 11:14:40 am »
This is the knife I have: https://www.swisstool.co.uk/st/outrider-swiss-army-knife.html It's sold in the UK (even if it's sold out at the moment, here's another one, same size, lockable: https://www.swisstool.co.uk/st/official-swiss-army-soldier-swiss-army-knife.html) So how can it be sold if it's illegal? Or it really depends on the intent? If I have a tent and a can of tuna fish next to it, then will my intent be clear enough? :)

Anyway I found my old one that I bought 35 years ago in East Germany, it's aa bit smaller, fake and non-lockable.

navrig

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2023, 03:23:17 pm »
To continue the knife theme.  In April I sailed Plymouth to Santander.  At the Plymouth "customs" I was asked if I had a knife with me.  I said I had a knife buried in one of the panniers.  They took a look and confiscated it.  It was an Opinel 4" blade.  IT was too long BUT the key thing was the locking mechanism.  They would have let me go if it didn't lock.

When I pointed out that the dozens of camper vans waiting to board probably each had a set of longer, non-folding kitchen knives, I was told they were exempt because they had a kitchen facility!!  How stupid is that?

martinf

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2023, 04:42:56 pm »
Perhaps a camping stove would count as a kitchen facility?

Andre Jute

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2023, 11:23:25 pm »
By the way, if your camping multitool has a blade over three inches on it, leave it at home, get another, because in the UK you can be jailed, and you will certainly spend at least a night locked up until you can explain yourself to the magistrate in the morning, if the police catch you with a blade over three inches long. I'm not kidding you. Another painter was locked up in England for the knife he used to sharpen his pencil, and told me he was expected to wash and brush his teeth in the toilet in the police cell for three days until the magistrate held court on Monday and apologised to him "for the inconvenience" after he gave a demonstration of how to sharpen a pencil... Bizarro! For that much unhygienic "inconvenience" I could turn into a revolutionary again.

Ok, this is an important piece of information. I guess my standard Victorinox Swiss army knife is too big for that, and it even has a locking blade :(

https://myknifeguide.com/legal-carry-swiss-army/
I wouldn't worry about it, no one in the UK has ever been arrested for carrying a  knife in a toolkit on a bike, for a start they'd need good reason to search, which has never happened to me or anyone I know. Andre's story is either a work of fiction or he's omitted some relevant detail.
Still best to have a legal knife, if it gets spotted at customs it'll be confiscated.

Paul: I didn't say this fellow was on a bicycle; he's not a cyclist. He was stopped on the street in a routine police sweep. They stopped teenagers and scruffy-looking adults, presumably on the assumption that they wouldn't be on first-name terms with their MP or a hungry journalist, both in the eyes of policemen troublemakers who shouldn't be permitted. The policeman asked him if he had a knife and naively he said yes: when he cleans up he's a responsible citizen. When he couldn't give a local address, he was detained and charged. Police incompetence, I'd say, thick country coppers not recognising a well-known painter, practising their highly refined developed class-consciousness, wasting the magistrate's time. His lawyer told him it wasn't worth suing; I wouldn't sue either, I'd make laughingstocks of them by name in a newspaper and on television, turn the affair into a tidy bit of income, more than enough to buy a well-specced Thorn.

Flocsy: Obviously I don't know the particulars of your Victorinox but I doubt it has a "locking" blade in the legal sense. The word locking is thrown around in this thread without a full understanding. In practical, legal terms, locking means knives with a positive lock, like a backlock or any kind of a flip lock. It does not mean slip joint detents, which legally are not locks. It is highly likely your Victorinox folding pocket knife has a slip joint on each of its blades; look up the specs by the knife number or name. A slip joint is a construction of a springy back and a separate blade with a circular or squarish with round corners rear end (close the blade and look at the end of the closed knife and you can see what I'm what I'm talking about) which swivels on a pin along the springy back -- you'll see a bit of the back at the forward end rising as you open the blade -- and then braces itself against the blunt forward end of the springback. This is not a lock and in theory it can close on your fingers, but it is a proven mostly-safe design. So, in summary, if your Victorinox has a blade shorter than three inches and is of slipjoint design, you're okay to carry it on your person. (I wouldn't, though.) If the blade is longer, you'd better carry it in your gear, and have your explanation of what it is for ready, and be ready too to give a demonstration of its function; a lot is left up to the individual policeman's discretion, or lack of it. If you buy a new knife, the wording in advertising for under-three inch blade with slipjoint is "EDC" for "EveryDay Carry".

Martin: I imagine you know this: Opinel also makes knives without the ring lock.

For Irish bicycle tourists: Irish law is different again. Some knives are simply banned outright by type-name including all knives deemed to have as their only function cutting or impaling people, martial arts knives from the Far East, but also folding razors, which is a common American pocket blade. A knife with a lock is not particularly banned. But you'd better not be caught here with a knife on your person, though in your gear any knife not particularly banned is okay as long as you can explain its necessary purpose to your tour. Martin's Opinel with the slide-locK would probably be acceptable, depending on its size. My own solution is to take only pocket knives with slip joints and blades less than 3" out of the house, and always in my gear rather than my pockets. Also, I use folding pocket knives of a recognised farmer's design (clip point, lambsfoot, and spay blades, the last passing for a penknife), probably familiar to at least half the policemen here.

« Last Edit: August 11, 2023, 10:54:52 am by Andre Jute »

martinf

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2023, 08:28:55 am »
Martin: I imagine you know this: Opinel also makes knives without the ring lock.

Yes. But I find the locking feature useful.

flocsy

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2023, 01:38:17 pm »
Andre, it's really lockable. Also advertised as such: https://www.swisstool.co.uk/st/outrider-swiss-army-knife.html When you open the big knife it clicks and then you can't fold it unless you unlock it by this grey sliding button. It's good that I've been made aware of this law, 'cause it's better not to try. I like this knife because I eat lot of bread and this has a slightly bigger blade than the usual size victorinox, which makes the slicing of the bread easier. But this is both locking and 3.5" so better not to try my luck.

flocsy

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2023, 11:31:55 pm »
Back to the original topic:

1. good news: I purchased the Nomad 565L S&S from Hoot's neighbour: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14884.0
2. I will be in England on a trip 3rd Sep - 12th Sep
3. I will have even more questions here :)

Q1: what paper map do you recommend for backup. I plan to use my Garmin Edge Explore 2 as the main navigation device, but you know, just in case... I'm still not 100% sure about the whereabouts (see other question), but I am thinking about one "general" UK or England map, that could save me if my Garmin runs out of battery.

Q2: what cycle specific, more detailed paper map would you recommend? (for the area I know I will tour in)

Q3: what Android app would you recommend? The best would be if it's possible to integrate it with the Garmin (like Komoot), but even if it's only as a helper app that I would use to find things for the next day it is fine, if it's "better" than Google maps in some regard. I would live to be able to try out cycle.travel on android, but it's not available yet (though it might be ready by September)

Q4: where to tour? I need to decide which direction to ride from Beverly, East Yorkshire, where I'll collect the bike. I'll need to get back to Luton airport at the end of the 8 days trip.

One option is to head south and get closer to the airport.

Another option is to do some trip in northern England.

Either way most of the nights I plan to stay in a tent in campings and the last night in some apartman/AirBnB/hotel where I'll have a room and the whole afternoon/night to disassemble the bike and pack it into the S&S soft case and head to the airport with the bike bag + my 2 rear panniers on bus/train.


Andre Jute

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2023, 09:57:25 am »
1. good news: I purchased the Nomad 565L S&S from Hoot's neighbour: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14884.0

Congratulations, Flocsy, and Hoot. A Sunflower Yellow Nomad! With S&S fittings! And Rohloff! I looked at Hoot's photos several time and thought, "If I were only twenty years younger." It's a thing of beauty. And cheap at whatever price you struck -- it will last, and please, long, long after the price is forgotten.*

The Cateye LD-TL1100 rear lamp is characteristic of how carefully everything on this bike was considered. That particular Cateye was at the top of their range, considered in its time, and still by some, including me, as the best rear blinky available for any price (and it was eye-tearingly pricey -- I paid 55 Euro for my first one); I still have one on each of my bikes as the backup lamp and daylight running lamp and nighttime blinky. You want to take particular care that the endcap, behind which the batteries live, is firmly fixed and cannot shake loose, because if it is lost on the road, the lamp will not work. I use mine with a releasable tie wrap around the lamp, lengthwise between the domes of lenses -- you'll see what I mean when you have the bike and the lamp.

Enjoy!

* Paraphrased from Sir Frederic Royce's answer to people who claimed his cars were expensive.

JohnR

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2023, 12:00:02 pm »
I can't think of a good single paper map of the country which would provide sufficient detail for navigation but this https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultimate-Cycle-Route-Planner-Map/dp/1901464415/ provides a good overview. Sustrans sells a lot of maps https://shop.sustrans.org.uk/collections/maps.

On longer rides I carry a powerbank. 5,000mAh capacity should both a fully charge a Garmin and half charge a phone. I also use OsmAnd on an Android phone as my backup mapping because it's possible to download all the relevant mapping in advance and store it on the phone which avoids the problem of discovering there's no phone signal (far too common in rural Britain) so Google Maps or similar won't work. If you have a route as a GPX file then you can load it into OsmAnd. That app is also very useful for providing an wider view of an area when the Garmin shows only the local detail.

If you have access to a computer then https://explore.osmaps.com includes a national cycle network layer which could be useful for initial planning of where to go. There's also an OS Maps phone app which will show cycle routes for free although some other information needs a subscription. Parts of northern England are hilly (the Pennine hills run up the middle) so zig-zagging southwards towards your departure airport may be the better option.

PH

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2023, 09:49:10 pm »
These days my back up for the Garmin is the phone, Google maps for urban areas and OsmAnd with the routes should there be a Garmin issue.  I still like to take a paper map, if plans change it's nice to get the bigger picture in a way you can't on a screen.  OS maps in the UK, there isn't any serious competition.  The Road series is OK, I think eight maps cover the country at 1: 250 000 scale, some minor roads are left off and it gets confusing in an urban area, they're not perfect but I have no trouble navigating with one.  If you're in a touristy area, the OS Tour series might be worth a look, they're at different scales, the whole of Scotland is on one and another just has Cornwall, I have my local Peak District one at  1: 100 000, I haven't seen any others. In the days before GPS, it was common practice to have pages torn out of a road atlas with the route drawn on.  Editions that were slightly out of date were always to be found cheap in remainder shops, I don't know if that's still the case.

Where to go?  Spoilt for choice, what's you preferences and interests? Love hills or try to avoid them?  Campsites or off site?  Daily mileage?  I like NCN routes, they're a decent mixture and although they occasionally have me cursing, no more so than when I plan my own. If you're happy with hills, I'd follow the coast North from Beverly (NCN 1) as far as Whitby, across the North York Moors (NCN1/165) then head South where it meets NN65 to York.  That's about 150 miles and plenty of choice from there.   

flocsy

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2023, 10:36:26 am »
I just "lost" my Garmin watch yesterday. It died. Battery lasts for less than a hour. So I'll definitely take a paper map. I like gadgets but need to be able to find my way even if I'm back to the stone age.

I like hills. Maybe not mountains :) but if it's part of the landscape, then let it be part of my 1st "alone tour". I am more worried about rain than the uphills.

I like green, landscape, woods. But also nice castles (probably won't visit though 'cause afraid of theft) or buildings (i.e viaducts, forts, ruins)
Definitely campsite. I'll have a tent, but not ready yet to take water and food for more than 1.5 days and my bike doesn't have dynamo so I'll also need the campsite for charging.
My milage is one of the big questions: new bike, new panniers, new saddle. Last year I had a flat tour in the Netherlands, but I was with my 10 year old boy, so we only made 60km days. I'll find it out on the way I guess, but I think it'll be around 60-80, (occasionally up to 100km if I know I have a long stretch and prepare to leave early) a day, and probably also depend on the terrain.

The eurovelo12 passes Beverley, I guess that is also part of the national cycle network. It looks like good choice. And after 5 days I'll know my strength better and then I can plan the last days in such a way that I arrive to a town where I'll have a train or bus to the airport on the last day.

PH

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2023, 12:04:42 pm »
The eurovelo12 passes Beverley, I guess that is also part of the national cycle network.
Yes, it's NCN1. 

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2023, 01:04:08 pm »
You like mountains?
We've got the highest in UK up here in Scotland; and quite a few more big uns.

Perhaps we're too far off your route?
Nevermind they don't move much so will be here for your next visit.

Matt
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flocsy

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2023, 09:48:15 pm »
I think I'll come back in the next few years to do a proper Scotland tour (though it might be with the family and without the bike, we'll see) and maybe also a Land's end to John o groats. For this 1st tour with this bike I'll be ok with the mountains that come by, I don't need to look for them :)

JohnR

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Re: Beginner's questions about September in Scotland or England
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2023, 02:35:48 pm »
Thorn's Touring Bike Bible http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/thorn_mega_brochure.pdf is worth reading, if you haven't already done so, as it's more than a bike catalogue and contains much relevant advice based on the author's experience.