New Hatching

[PH]

quote:Originally posted by john28july

 BUT........how about Drop bars which real riders use? I mean real drop bars with good controls. Oh! And real gears that you can select.
www.pbase.com/john28july

 Oh John, what a sorry story your website tells.  All those bikes you've owned, all designed and built to be capable of lasting a lifetime. All much of a sameness, drop barred derailleur steelies.  How many? I lost count, 7? 8? Far too many, what is it you're looking for and why have you found it so hard to find?
If I was to take bike choice advice or criticism, it would be from someone who'd demonstrated they'd got it right for themselves, you’re disqualified[]

[john28july]

Regarding past ownership of bikes. Firstly I had all the bikes at more or less the same time! Too many bikes too little space to keep them and needed cash for other things. For example the Brompton had very little use. I love Thorn bikes and am keeping to them.
As to my giving advice? I was not aware advice was what I gave, but an opinion.
Regarding the Rohloff and the future. Yes I admit that my feeling is that a great number will go this way. Of course if Robin at SJSC were not to promote them so well I think it would be a different story. A bike shop (quite a good one) close to me has sold one Rohloff bike in 3 years! The( cost of course), plus +++++++++++++++++I think the simplicity is not what enthusiasts are looking for? I can only enthuse about the Rohloff as a great system, but its not for me, at least not at the present time.
No reasonable person would overlook the Rohloff but I prefer the weight spread around the bike.
All in all I suspect that one day I will own a Rohloff fitted bike, but only when my days of cycling are down to gentle pootling round the lanes. That would mean a Sturmey Archer 3 speed would suffice. Anyhow, all enjoy your Rohloff equiped machines. They are what you want. They are what you paid for.Have fun. Use that range of gears to advantage. Whilst I continue to 'put up' with the 'old ways'!
Best regards to all,
John.
www.pbase.com/john28july

[stutho]

Hi frog,

You are right about wanting to remove rotating mass first (because of the micro acceleration effect on every pedal stroke).  Luckily the weight in the Rohloff is relatively close to the axle which diminishes the effect.  That said I think everyone would like the Rohloff to be a bit lighter.

My second bike is a fully XT equipped Trek 7700FX (hybrid).  With the odd upgrade this bike is sub 10kg and is very sporty with radial spokes etc.  It is a VERY good bike definitely not to be confused with the cheap and nasty type of hybrid.  If I compare the Trek to the Raven Sport I find the trek feels a whole lot quicker and is a LOT lighter but actually when I check the times on my 15 mile (hilly) circuit it is the Raven Sport that comes out (slightly) on top.  Added to that that the Raven is more comfortable and is MUCH easier to maintain.  

When I first got my Raven Sport I was expecting to continue riding the Trek half the time.  In reality I cant remember the last time I was on the Trek.  

Point I am trying to make is that weight is not everything.  I am not sure it is even important any more.

[frog]

quote:but only when my days of cycling are down to gentle pootling round the lanes.

Flippin' 'eck John!  You've been spying on me!! [:I]

I've got to stand with John when it comes to his choice of bikes.  Product, and type, loyalty only comes with prolonged good experience and it only takes a small hiccup to throw it out of the window.  This only reinforces that Thorn, irrespective of model or drive train, is a bike to have and be proud of.  

Equally valid is his observation that each system has it's 'niche market.'  Just take a look at the banter I've been getting in the past week.  Personally, I don't think hub gears will make a spectacular break out of their niche until a well publicised event (TdF etc) has either a team using them - and does well, or an outright winner.  In the meantime derailleur will rule the roost by popularity and saturation.  Robin's approach is opening doors everywhere but their hinges aren't all that well oiled.  From my own experience of the Thorn stand at the two cycle shows I've been too has been buried in people from the second the doors opened while so called market leaders just across the aisle are bored out of their skulls watching.  []

Many thanks stutho for the explanation.  I'm very much one for blathering 'accepted wisdom' without having a clue where it came from so I'll go to bed that bit smarter tonight - makes a change I can tell you![]

[freddered]

Derailleur will rule the Tour de France because it's more efficient (in weight and transmission loss).  As soon as it offers competetive advantage they will use it.  
If I had a team of people cleaning and adjusting my bike every time I finished a ride I would probably have not got the Rohloff either. Also my wife has refused to follow me in the car everywhere carrying a complete set of spare parts (and occasionally leaning out of the window to oil my chain, adjust gears and so on).

[frog]

Thanks freddered, I'd completely forgot about the level of support the competitors get during the classics.  

I wonder if a rear wheel change on a Rohloff will ever reach the same speed as the mechanics do their changes on the Le Tour?

[john28july]

[/Hello all!
Well after all this time and loads of thinking, guess what?
Guess what?
Yes go on you are nearly there.
Got it?
I have-well nearly!
I have a Raven Tour frameset arriving today, then its Thorn Brevet virtually brand new to be sold to finance the....Rohloff kit.
So, all in all I will be on a Raven Tour by the end of the year. I will report more as and when.
John.
www.pbase.com/john28july    Take a look!]

Hi John,

 

quote:how about Drop bars which real riders use?

John lights blue touch paper and retires to a safe distance  []

I did get my own back on my colleague when I found out that one of the 'hills' he's been training on for the Alps was Ivinghoe Beacon.  My comment of 'Surely, the ramp onto the car ferry at Dover is a steeper and longer climb than that?' drew blood.

Despite his entrenched addiction to carbon and speed he did, very grudgingly, admit to a mutual friend in an e-mail that the Raven is a really nice bike and 'looks the business'.  As we're the same height and build I'm waiting for the day when he asks for a test ride around the works yard.  I don't think I'll have to wait long.  []

Still in the light-hearted vein John, have you had a go on a bike with a Rohloff hub?  I thought I was a dyed in the wool drop bars and derailleur man as well.  The test ride I had at the London Bike Show in 2004 made me really look again at what was on offer.  Two years later, 12,000 miles, 3 cassettes, 4 chains, 2 triple chainsets on the junk heap I started to wonder just what I was spending my money on - and was I getting a decent return on it?

As you can see from hsps1, the Raven, and Rohloff, bring out some unexpected qualties in people you thought you knew very well  []


[/quote]

[stutho]

DID I READ THAT RIGHT?  Congratulations John,  I wish you every success with your new Raven.  What will be the spec. ?

PS Whats the story on the Thorn Brevet?  - Too similar to your audax?

[john28july]

quote:Originally posted by stutho

DID I READ THAT RIGHT?  Congratulations John,  I wish you every success with your new Raven.  What will be the spec. ?

PS Whats the story on the Thorn Brevet?  - Too similar to your audax?

Hello,
Well I decided that a Raven Tour was too good to not have! I simply sold the Brevet to fund towards the Raven Tour. I really do hope that I get along with it! Following all the wonderful comments about these bikes I simply gave in.
I am going for MTB style bars as I could not stand the drop bar gearshifter arrangement. I have always ridden drop bars so this is going to be an eye opener I think. Should get the bike up and running next week or so. Will keep information coming.
John.
www.pbase.com/john28july

[john28july]

quote:Originally posted by stutho

DID I READ THAT RIGHT?  Congratulations John,  I wish you every success with your new Raven.  What will be the spec. ?

PS Whats the story on the Thorn Brevet?  - Too similar to your audax?

Hello,
Its here. Ive ridden it about 2 miles. First impresions? Weird! The only time I can hear anything is when in 7th gear. The rest of the time, utter silince. Its really strange not riding with drop bars but I have to get out at the weekend to become accustomed.........
Will list a link to pictures over the weekend too.
Specification.
Rear wheel Mavic with Rohloff. Front wheel Mavic with Shimano Ultegra hub Dynamo running Lumotec front lamp. Saddle Brooks B17 Black. Seatpost Carbon fibre. Brakes only Tektro until funds allow upgrade to parralell XT or whatever. Mudguards SKS. Bottle cages Minoura black. Crankset Thorn expensive item 42 tooth. Rear rack Thorn Expedition with front lo riders the lightweight mid loaders from Thorn. Stubby bar ends.
All in all a satisfactory build.
Must ride all day all night 24 /7 until I get used to MTB style bars.
Feedback very welcome but I must admit my misgivings about noise from the hub were totally unfounded!!!!
John.
www.pbase.com/john28july

[stutho]

Good Luck with the new bike John.  A very brave decision to go for MTB bars.  Interestingly when I got my Raven Sport I switched to drops after riding flat bars for years!  

When you decide to upgrade the brakes you might want to consider Avid Ultimate.  They are Mega $$$ but are very good - better than parallel push IMHO.

stutho

[john28july]

Good Luck with the new bike John.  A very brave decision to go for MTB bars.  Interestingly when I got my Raven Sport I switched to drops after riding flat bars for years!  

When you decide to upgrade the brakes you might want to consider Avid Ultimate.  They are Mega $$$ but are very good - better than parallel push IMHO.

stutho


[/quote]

[freddered]

I specced mine (Raven Tour)with flat bars originally. I couldn't get on with them and swapped frame to one suited to Drops.

If you ride on top of the Drop bars then shifter(on accessory bar) is very convenient.  If you ride on the brake hoods then it's less so.

It's not many years since my shifters were either side of the downtube so it's a definite improvement over that.

Overall though I don't notice it any more. Most importantly (for me) I can climb better out of the saddle with drop bars and I can stretch out over the hoods more to keep a lower profile into the wind.

Anyway, you have 100 days to see how you get on.

Agree with the unearthly silence in most gears.  Most prevalent over potholes when there is a total absence of any chain-slap or rattling.

In my opinion this is why it seems, incorrectly, slower than a rattling derailleur bike.

[john28july]

Hello,
I do not have 100 days 'grace' as the bike was my own build from purchased frameset. I had much of the build parts so 'just' had to buy rear hub and associated parts.I could fit drop bars as I got the short top tube version, but cant really see me getting on with the shifter attached to the stem. I like to ride on the brake hoods.
Anyhow no rides today (Saturday) as I am unwell, and its raining a lot too!

John
www.pbase.com/john28july

quote:Originally posted by freddered

I specced mine (Raven Tour)with flat bars originally. I couldn't get on with them and swapped frame to one suited to Drops.

If you ride on top of the Drop bars then shifter(on accessory bar) is very convenient.  If you ride on the brake hoods then it's less so.

It's not many years since my shifters were either side of the downtube so it's a definite improvement over that.

Overall though I don't notice it any more. Most importantly (for me) I can climb better out of the saddle with drop bars and I can stretch out over the hoods more to keep a lower profile into the wind.

Anyway, you have 100 days to see how you get on.

Agree with the unearthly silence in most gears.  Most prevalent over potholes when there is a total absence of any chain-slap or rattling.

In my opinion this is why it seems, incorrectly, slower than a rattling derailleur bike.

[john28july]

Eagle eyed will notice that whilst I mentioned in the General Forum that I was getting the bike fitted with a Shimano Dynamo hub, its not in the picture! However it will be soon.
John.
www.pbase.com/john28july