New Hatching

[frog]

Announcing the birth of a new Raven Tour.  Rider and bike are doing well (though Mrs frog is having a case of the 'tuts and rolling eyes' which I hope she'll get over soon . . .


http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/b8200694/album?.dir=/3344re2&.src=ph

[PH]

looks good.
What size is that?  It looks as stretched out as mine.

[frog]

Hi PH,

Frame is a 587L.  I must admit I'm really taken with it.  You know how some things just look 'right'.

The set up of the bike is fantasticly accurate for me.  Apart from straightening the steering it was ready to go.  I took a cm off the saddle height because it look really tall against my other bike but I'd forgot to take into account the amount of travel the suspension seat post would have with my weight.  I'll be putting the cm back later today  [:I].  

It's years since I rode a straight bar cycle for any distance and the open arms posture takes some getting used too, as does the more upright stance.  It's just a question of stengthening the right muscles over the next few months and all will be fine.  Used it for the commute on Friday and only an extra 2 mins on the each way times.  I'm up and down the gears seeking the most beneficial gear along the route, I must be changing literally hundreds of times more per trip that I did with derailleurs - but it's so easier to do!

[PH]

That is the same size as mine, I thought I recognised the amount of air between front wheel and downtube.  My commute time also went up when I first got it, never as much as the hour a week I was saving on cleaning and maintenance.  It soon came down to about the same time once I got used to it.  It's surprising how much a gearing system changes the way you ride.  I was out on my derailleur bike today, for the first time in ages, I kept getting caught out on hills and Junctions.  It felt fast but the ave speed on the computer is almost the same as when I did the same route on the Raven.  
Those bits of time you lose with a derailleur changing gear, waiting for an appropriate time to change and changing ahead of junctions soon adds up.

my bike

[frog]

I must admit I'm really impressed with your bike.  You posted a pic of it on C+ a couple of weeks ago and I very nearly went for the red rather than green.

Had my first experience of the 'Rohloff Moment' this morning.  Oldish bloke overtook me quite slowly staring intently at the rear wheel and you can see the question forming in his head. 'Just where are the cogs?'.  He managed to straighten up just before he hit the curb  [].

I'll have to think up a suitable reply if the question every gets answered.  Something like: 'It's a bit like a woman, all the really interesting bits are inside - and it takes practice to get the most out it them.'  Or.  'How many gear does it have?  Well, to be honest I can't really remember was it 10 or was it 14.  Feeling lucky punk?'

I'm having quite a bit of success with a HRM to control my weight, and therefore my BP, so there has to be a certain amount of anticipation/lag in timing the gear changes.  This was a nightmare with derailleurs because once the HR had started to rise it was almost impossible to spin at a rate which would allow it to stabilise before it went ballistic.  Once I had ridden for about 3 hours any increase in output would sent it miles above a rate which was any value to me in the way of exercise.  

Because the gears are so close together, and there is much more in the lower end, I'm looking at a lower average HR for the trip and a smaller max.  The ability to try intermediate changes, albeit for a few crank cycles, lessens the output and makes the HR increase easier to control.  This mornings ride was over a course I usually get over to within +/- two minutes on a 36 mile course.  HR varies accordingly to state of health and weather but I can predict the max and average to within +/- 5pm.  Today I was almost 15 bpm under the average and 16 under the usual peak, all for an extra 5 mins on the bike.  These are figures I can get very used too indeed!!!  []

[john28july]

Of course this all sounds very smug-which you are. BUT........how about Drop bars which real riders use? No, I do not mean with dafty little side bar rotational controls. I mean real drop bars with good controls. Oh! And real gears that you can select. Not one by one heavy old rear hub gears. I own at least two Thorn bikes....................
John.
www.pbase.com/john28july

[frog]

John, show a bit of mercy please!  You must be a close relative of a colleague I have at work who is currently training for a trip to the Alps to try to beat his best time up one of the tour climbs.  He saw my Raven for the first time today and there was no holding back.

'I tried to follow you up the lane this morning but kept falling off as you were going so slow.'

'Like the tyres - reminds me of my first bike when I was five with the balloon tyres.'

'I thought John Deere tractors had yellow wheels.'

'Flat bars!  Flat bars!  God help me if any of my friends see me talking to you.  Can you walk a few paces behind me and try to hang your head in shame as if you mean it!'

'Carbon bar-ends!  You have to be joking!  Just how much weight do you think you've saved?'

'If you sit anymore upright people will start throwing dog biscuits at you.'

In my defence I did give an awful lot of thought to having drops but the perpetual taking the hand off and changing gear takes me back 30 years to my old Styr Puch road bike with the changer on the stem.  No, I think if you want to embrace a new technology then you have to do it with both hands.  I see this as the future of cycling, at least for me and lots of people like me.

I like the bikes - good engineering is a work of art!

[john28july]

[bNo worries! At least you have a sense of humour? I apprecioate the Thorn bikes obviously as I own 2 at present (was 3). I admit the comfort is great. The design is great. The cost is GRET! The only worry is that I may end up all alone without--a---ROHLOFF....Rohloff = 'No real character'....b)
John.
www.pbase.com/john28july][/b]

[stutho]

Hi John,
(quotes:)
Drop bars which real riders use
Rohloff = 'No real character'

You seam to like real things John. So here is a REAL character - Heinz Stücke.  The worlds most travelled man (by bicycle).  

I guess you are going to have educate my Stücke though - he uses a FLAT handlebar and a HUB gear no less!  Poor guy, you would think that after travelling around the world 10 times by bicycle he would know a thing or two but no, he is complete ignorant of what is real.  

I am with you John, I am sure you know best.  We shouldn't have to put up with non-real cyclists should we, especially as they make up 9/10 of the entire cyclist in the UK.  Get rid of the lot I say.  There will be far more room on the cycle paths for one. (Esp. as we won’t be using them either, real cyclists don’t use them.)  

Stutho  

[hsps1]

I am very interested in the effect that a Raven Sport Tour has had on my wife. Never in a million years did I expect a 400k four day tour when shae bought it in March but this is what has happened. If you just want to ride a pretty sorted touring machine then this is what you get.
I can't imagine not riding a fixed, riding a racing machine fast, riding a bike 'off road' but my wife can't see any reason whatsoever to do the above so Thorns are as they say here in the north east, 'lush'.

[frog]

Hi John,

 

quote:how about Drop bars which real riders use?

John lights blue touch paper and retires to a safe distance  []

I did get my own back on my colleague when I found out that one of the 'hills' he's been training on for the Alps was Ivinghoe Beacon.  My comment of 'Surely, the ramp onto the car ferry at Dover is a steeper and longer climb than that?' drew blood.

Despite his entrenched addiction to carbon and speed he did, very grudgingly, admit to a mutual friend in an e-mail that the Raven is a really nice bike and 'looks the business'.  As we're the same height and build I'm waiting for the day when he asks for a test ride around the works yard.  I don't think I'll have to wait long.  []

Still in the light-hearted vein John, have you had a go on a bike with a Rohloff hub?  I thought I was a dyed in the wool drop bars and derailleur man as well.  The test ride I had at the London Bike Show in 2004 made me really look again at what was on offer.  Two years later, 12,000 miles, 3 cassettes, 4 chains, 2 triple chainsets on the junk heap I started to wonder just what I was spending my money on - and was I getting a decent return on it?

As you can see from hsps1, the Raven, and Rohloff, bring out some unexpected qualties in people you thought you knew very well  []

[john28july]

Hello all above,
It was intended very light heartedly and seems to have been taken that way---more or less!!
Anyhow in response, I have ridden Rohloff equiped bike. I have seen a number at SJSC showroom. I have a real feeling that the system is good. I suspect one day I may even own a suitably fitted bike.
BUT!!!! Its heavy in one place only (the bike) and thats the rear end which carries all or most of the luggage load. It does not feel the same as a conventional system of course. I like drop bars. I admit that riding with upright or straight bars has advantages at many times. Problem I have with it all, is tradition. I suspect that I am starting to get old (56 next month!!!! Urg!!!!!!!!!).
Anyhow all in all this has been a good read.
Bye for now, I am out today for a nice ride on..........my Thorn Audax 853.
John.
www.pbase.com/john28july

[max]

Don't worry, john28july - I've coped with 7 months of being 56, it's not so bad. I got a new bike for my last birthday - it's called a Club Tour. It doesn't come in the 'Stealth' colour scheme, but as far as the Thorn Forums are concerned, it seems invisible! Perhaps everything was said about it years ago.
Max

[john28july]

Hello,
Club Tour? Its a very good value bike, and its a Thorn! I think pictures posted would be a good idea if possible.
John.
www.pbase.com/john28july

[frog]

Hi John,

You make an extremely good point about where the weight on a bike goes.  I think the basicly accepted truth is if you want to reduce weight then take it away from any rotating bodies first as there the most benefit is gained - feel free to correct anyone  []

While the claim that the Rohloff hub weighs no more than the usual derailleur components is true it has to be said the derailleur bits and pieces aren't in the rotating weight equation - again, feel free to correct anyone.

Now, please bear with me and accept my fuzzy logic for what it worth, probably very little:

I see the future of cycling going down the Rohloff path for two very simple reasons - it's simple and it's reliable!  Want to go faster but work a bit harder then click up.  Want to make life a bit easier then click down.

To support this I put forward a sight we see probably everyday.  The bike with derailleur gears that hasn't had a gear change since the week after it was bought.  The 24 or 27 speed bike that only uses three of the gears.  The novice who has got a couple of gear changes down pat for their route but anything else just scares them because of the funny noises.  Look how indexed gears took off when we were all brought up on friction changers (I'm 54 by the way).

On a slightly different topic the war of words at work continues.  My colleague said 'It's not a bike, it's an armchair!.  Can you get a Laura Ashley cover for it?'  Another 'friend' said it reminded him of a Bren Gun Carrier.  

My Christmas Card list just gets shorter and shorter . . .  []