Author Topic: Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?  (Read 5950 times)

nztony

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Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?
« on: September 05, 2013, 06:50:37 am »
Long time reader, first time poster, so I hope I am in the right forum for this question.

QUESTION:
Is a Nomad MKII with a full kit, strong enough for someone of my weight?


SOME BACKGROUND:
I am a large guy of 130kg or 286lbs. Here I am here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nztony/8509657550
I'm not 'sumo wrestler' large, rather I'm big, 185cm, solid/chunky, (and probably a few kilos more than I should be!)
but also quite fit (from lots and lots of hill walking/hiking) and lifting weights, i.e. bench pressing 150kg at the gym at 50 years old (I'm getting weaker as I managed 162.5 at 49 years old) In other words although I am very heavy,
I'm relatively fit and strong to go with it. This is a fairly typical walk for me: http://sportypal.com/Workouts/Details/3224981

I used to cycle in the 1980s (it feels a whole lifetime ago now) and did lots and lots of road miles in training - two  or even three "century" bike rides a week (interspersed with short 50 mile rides) were a typical week for me.

I am confident with my (longtime ago) cycling history, and my present history of walking in the hills and being experienced carrying all my gear in my large backpack for overnighters, that I can combine the two and get up to speed quite quickly with bicycle touring however... will the Nomad MKII be up to the task?

I see in the brochure they mention a 135kg power lifter in the USA used a Nomad MKII for exercise but it was not recommended he use the bike for Expedition Touring -so does that count me out too. i.e. I am 130kg without adding a single gram to a full set of Ortleib Panniers.

I'd love to do a massive bike ride from (for example) London to New Zealand, but that is out of the question with jobs and mortgages etc to pay. However there is nothing to stop me touring one length of my country to the other (New Zealand) and my main wish, to fly to the UK and cycle around the Scottish Highlands, the Outer Hebrides, then back to the UK to ride to London etc?

Long gone are the days I'll be wearing skin tight lycra outfits (been there done that) but Aerotech designs in USA seem to make these up to 4XL: http://www.aerotechdesigns.com/meaetecashpa1.html
Any other ideas for cycle clothing for 4XL - 5XL sized guys like myself?

Very many thanks
Tony
New Zealand



« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 06:54:44 am by nztony »

Danneaux

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Re: Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2013, 07:39:49 am »
Hi Tony, and welcome to the Thorn Cycling Forum!

I'm afraid I can't advise you firsthand on whether the Nomad Mk2 will fill your needs for touring with your own weight *and* a camping load, but I can relate my experience with my own lighter weight and an expedition load as data points you might find helpful.

For comparison, I'm 53, stand 180cm/71in tall, and weigh 78kg/172lb. Unladen, my bike weighs right at 20kg/45lbs. Loaded for self-supported, solo, extended desert expeditions (and carrying extra food stores and as much as 26.5l of water), the bike weighs in at a maximum of 70kg/154lb. Total with my weight in this heavier configuration comes to 148kg/326lb. The only other similar bike I know of with a published weight rating this high is Tout Terrain's Silk Road at 159kg/350lb maximum including rider weight.

I found the handling of my Nomad Mk2 even off-road and on logging roads and fire trails to still be good even at this weight. I even attached a trailer for an all-up weight of 83kg/183lb, though the trailer supported a portion of its weight, so not all was carried by the bike.

My Nomad Mk2 is a 590M; I chose the M frame so I could manage it with my preferred drop handebars. Tony, the problem is, you're taller than I, and would probably require a larger frame. Unfortunately, the weight rating of the Nomad goes down as the frames grow in size overall and in top tube length for a given size. If you take a look at the current brochure ( http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornRavenNomadBroHiRes.pdf ) page 19, you'll see the 590L frame is rated for a lesser load than my 590M, and so on through the line. Andy Blance did us a tremendous kindness in adding these cargo limits to his brochure, but he has not mentioned rider weight beyond the notation you refer to (bike as exercise equipment for a larger/more powerful rider).

If I were in your position, I would give Andy Blance a call or send him an email asking for his advice and suggestions. He is a very pleasant and personable fellow to deal with, and I can't think of a better person to contact for definitive answers. He has a tremendous store of experience at his disposal and has experience working with a vast range of rider weights/heights.

When all is said and done, I *think* you might be able to use the Nomad for touring with a trailer rather than panniers. Yes, a trailer will have problems and drawbacks of its own compared to panniers, but the trailer also has the tremendous advantage of supporting a portion of its own load on its wheel(s), so less is carried by the bike.

Given your weight and fitness, I think it might be wise to inquire about the possibility of building a Nomad Mk2 with parts from Thorn's Rohloff tandem line -- perhaps some hub flange reinforcing rings or the possibility of a 36-hole rear hub and rim. I think you might enjoy greater component and wheel reliability if you're more inclined to pedal as a spinner rather than a masher (lower cyclic loading of components).

As a final data point, I have a Burley Rock 'n' Roll tandem with 26" wheels. When my Dutch friend came over for a tour, we loaded up the bike with four panniers, piled a load on the rear rack, attached one of my two-wheeled homebuilt trailers and headed off on the gravel logging roads up Mount June here in Oregon's Calapooya mountains. All-up, the rig weighed right at 272kg/600lb and we suffered not a single failure, puncture, or untrue wheel as a result, even riding on 1.5in road slicks. Tony, by some stretch even if it required a tandem to tour as you pleased solo, it would still be possible and you wouldn't be the first to do so. I've taken mine out for any number of 300km solo rides in hilly terrain and returned marveling at how the tandem gave remarkable service as a solo tourer. It weighs only 0.45kg/1lb more than my Nomad, so my assessment is not as surprising as it sounds.

Speaking for myself, it is terrific to see a larger fellow inquire about touring bikes. I have a number of friends much your size who have discounted the possibility of touring out of hand, and I remain convinced it is possible, safe, and reliable if one is willing to plan accordingly and take a little different approach to things. All encouragement your way, Tony; I can't wait to hear when you've acquired a bike and have some photos to share of the trips you'll be taking!

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 07:51:00 am by Danneaux »

il padrone

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Re: Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2013, 09:36:36 am »
My mate is a very solid chap. Here he is enjoying riding his Thorn Nomad on a tour of Tassie (we were fully-loaded with camping gear)

http://app.getsmileapp.com/images/8b48ea2633a40036d41fbbc4824709f1c71f834e8d75211f3aebe120b42a5c47/jpg/2048x1536
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 09:38:20 am by il padrone »

nztony

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Re: Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2013, 10:17:13 am »
Dan,

Thank you for you very detailed reply.

I read the same max weight for the Tout Terrain Silk Road at 160kg, leaving me at 130kg, with 30kg breathing space! This is what lead me to more research and realising that the only stronger bike I could find was the Thorn Nomad MKII, so I am happy I've found the best fit for me with the Thorn.

I was feeling a bit despondent about finding a bike to carry me. I've read the Nomad MKII pdf many times over, but for the first time I read their Tandem brochure recently and it did leave me with the thought that if  their tandem Rohloff rear wheel and rim can take two riders and all their gear, surely a similarly built Rohloff rear wheel would carry me on the  Nomad MKII - so there is some hope there!

Like you, I have considered a trailer, an Extra Wheel or a Bob etc, but flying my bike half way around the world is going to be tricky enough without trying to fit a trailer into my baggage for international flights.

Your comments regarding your Burley Rock 'n' Roll tandem is promising too: that huge load and two people onboard and no wheel or spoke breakages.

As for pedalling, believe it or not, for a big guy, even when I cycled in the 1980s I actually had a very smooth pedalling style - I used to ride the kilometre time trial on the velodrome at a reasonable clip, but also 100km four man Team Time Trials, so as I said in my original post, I don't think it would take me long to get into the swing of things again!

I will gladly post photos when I purchase (as I really want too, and not have to pull out just because of my size.)


IL Padrone - thanks for the pic - but ... is he as heavy as me at 130kg?


I do a bit of this myself in the early 1980's 30 years and 30 kilos ago: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nztony/3021847064

Peddrov

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Re: Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2013, 12:33:46 pm »
It sounds like you would be pushing the boundaries, but as Dan said, it's probably possible, though maybe you'll need some heavy-duty upgrades. One criteria might be the kind of surface you picture yourself riding on and of course how much baggage you want/need (amount of water and food in particular). For remote rough-surface desert crossing I would probably suggest a trailer. For rides in Scotland, where water isn't usually a problem, you can probably get away without one. As Dan said, Andy Blance know's best ;)

mickeg

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Re: Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2013, 01:26:51 pm »
I do not pretend to have expertise in Rohloffs and Thorn frames, these are simply guesses on my part. 

My guess is that you would want tandem strength rear wheel, perhaps with 48h rim.  In other words, I think the wheel and not the frame is the limiting factor.  Front wheel carries much less weight, 32h or 36h I would think is adequate.

The question of chainring to cog tooth ratio should be considered too, you could put a lot of torque on the rear cog in the lower gears.

And, if you plan to be far away from help, carry a spare seatpost bolt in case you break one.  I cut a slot into the threaded end of my seatpost bolt so that if I break it, I should be able to use a slotted screwdriver from the other end to unscrew the part that remains in the frame.

If you need better braking, Salmon Koolstop pads have a good reputation.

honesty

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Re: Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2013, 02:33:15 pm »
Nomad has a rear disc mount doesnt it? No reason why you couldn't get a disc drag brake wired in as well as rim brakes if you were worried about the extra weight and braking. I rather like the idea of approaching the whole project as if you were looking to build a tandem but just without the extra seat...

il padrone

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Re: Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2013, 03:23:13 pm »
Disc brakes function poorly as a true drag brake. Too little thermal mass, you'll very soon have the disc glowing and warped if you leave the brake on for the duration of a 10km descent.

Tandem tourers use a drum brake - Arai is good.

macspud

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Re: Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2013, 04:13:31 pm »
I think that the easiest solution would be to adjust your eating habits and keep to a healthy diet, with your fitness levels the weight should drop off pretty quick.
I've had the same problem myself, though I'm getting there weight wise now. I'm 6'5" and was weighing in about 150kg (not fit at all) now down to 105kg (fitness definately improving) I'm aiming for 90-95kg as a good fighting weight, hopefully fit for anything.
I'd say, order the bike and use it and diet to get yourself lighter, then as you lose weight from your frame you can start adding more to the panniers.
Regards,
Iain.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 04:15:32 pm by macspud »

nztony

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Re: Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2013, 03:08:41 am »
Thank you everyone for your replies - I think I am just going to be brave and place an order and up-spec the bike to the strongest (not flashiest) components. Being an (ex) experienced bike rider (from the 1980s) I was pretty good at avoiding potholes etc. I found when I first started I used to puncture (my tubular tyres) frequently and the more experienced I got the less punctures I got - I guess I just got to instinctively know what items on the road to avoid. It didn't stop me from snapping my handlebar stem though when practicing standing starts (going from stationary to full speed) on the velodrome! (Hence I love the look of the very strong beefy looking handlebar stems of today.... and I won't be doing "standing starts up to full speed on a Nomad MKII!)

Macspud, your advice is probably the best of all – make myself lighter and then I won’t have the problem. And congratulations on your weight loss, very impressive indeed.

NZPeterG

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Re: Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2013, 10:26:06 am »
Hi Tony,
If you would like to take a test ride or have a close look at a Thorn Nomad MK2?

You can come and have a go on my "Tom" (Nomad MK2) I live in Taupo.

Also do you know that there is a Thorn suppler in New Zealand? Chris from Puresports is great he can build you up a Bespoke Nomad if you like and he is Rohloff NZ too.

He has looked after me for the last 8+ years, and become a good friend he also has a few Nomads that he rides and he lives just north of Wellington (so if your any time down there Chris would let you have a test ride too)

You can find more about my "Tom" here http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4418.0


Pete  8)




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nztony

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Re: Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2013, 12:19:21 pm »
Hello Pete

Many thanks for the suggestions - Taupo is one of my favourite places but sadly I don't seem to pass through very often these days - I'm more a Wanaka type these days if I get the choice for a holiday (I'm in Wellington.) When I do get my Nomad MKII you can be sure the Crown Range will be one of my must do's on it (fully laden!) I did ride Auckland to Taupo in a single day a couple of times when I cycled in the 1980s but I'm not sure I'll be doing any 270km days on a Nomad! The ride the next day from Taupo to Napier seemed like a short ride after the previous day. (I was pretty keen back then.) Now that I've hit the big 50, I don't want a red two door sports car and I don't want and Harley Davidson, so a Nomad seems a perfect alternative.

I think I will end up going with Thorn in the UK with no disrespect to Puresports NZ. I feel by buying through Thorn I'll be getting the absolute genuine article as researched, designed, road tested, with components specifically chosen by Andy Balance etc, and the couple of emails I have swapped with them have been very prompt and positive.

Best regards
Tony

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Re: Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2013, 11:28:13 am »
Hi Tony
That is OK, BUT I was lucky to have ordered from Chris and not Thorn.

Why? Because my 1st frame came with some very poor welding, wrong fittings and a flatten heatset!
Thorn shipped it to Chris (at Puresports) and it was very well padded. Chris delivered the frameset to me and showed the frame to me, I said sorry no way I was going to repair a new frame and that I would like a new new frameset.
Chris reordered a new frame which Thorn checked before senting and Chris dropped off to me on a Sunday afternoon. Welds all good, Right cable mountings and one more flattened Headset!
We removed the headset and checked the frame for any more damaged, all was OK so I ordered and fitted a Cane Creek 110 Headset (110 year Wty)

I did in the 1st place email Andy a load of times about Thorn Bicycles and I was lucky to have ordered from Puresports in New Zealand, Yes Andy and Robin would have replace the 1st Frame for me (maybe?) But I do not have the time to ship damaged, badly made frame back the the UK.

Chris also sells Rohloff hub's at one of the lowest prices in the world and his on going after sales support is some of the best I have come across, I got my 1st Rohloff Speedhub from Chris 9 years ago and I was one of only a few who raced Mountain Bikes in New Zealand with a Rohloff.
I still have my Puresports cycle top.

I sold my 1st Rohloff off before going to Africa last year (for more then a New Rohloff) but after having a Bad Day (night) I replaced it with a New Rohloff which is on my "Tom".

All the best with your Nomad its one Strong Frameset.

Happy Cycling again  :)

Pete  :-*

PS: I now work for the Best Cycle shop in Taupo!
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 11:34:02 am by NZPeterG »
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nztony

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Re: Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2013, 06:45:14 am »
Hello Pete

Thanks for the info and I love your comment  - It's one Strong Frameset!
If you work at the best cycle shop in Taupo, it can only TGC then I think!
I was in a high end Wellington Cycle Shop a couple of months ago and picked up a NZD $320 Brooks Saddle, looked at it for a few minutes,
then wandered around the shop but because I don't look like a "cyclist" not one shop assistant bothered bothered to look up from the front
shop counter - oh well another shop to strike off my list - I'm a very loyal customer once a shop treats me well! (Funny thing only last week
they were in the newspaper saying they find it hard to compete against oversea online site like wiggle etc, so they offer prices a cheap as possible,
alongside superior service - yeah right!

Tony

NZPeterG

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Re: Thorn Nomad MKII suitable for VERY Heavy Rider?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2013, 07:50:24 am »
Hi Tony,
Yes its all about the customer! Full Stop!

We welcome every customer that comes into our shop! with "Good Morning (Afternoon)to our shop" and we all mean it.

We do Not stop talking to a customer if the phone rings! (there is a thing that is called a Answer Phone) the customer in the shop comes 1st.

The only way we would not welcome a customer in to the shop? is that we all are busy with customers already in the shop! But do try to say hello to any one that comes in.

There are a lot of shops that only talk to road cyclist's (or Mountain Bikers)!

We welcome in and love to see any new cyclist and love to point out good places to go cycling  8) Be it Mountain Biking, Road, Cycle Tourists, and Fitness riders.

We all love cycling and do cycle, I'm one of two at work who are planning to start up Cyclocross fun racing.

Happy Cycling

Pete  :-*

« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 07:52:26 am by NZPeterG »
The trouble with common sense is it is no longer common[

http://kiwipetesadventures.tumblr.com/

http://kiwipetescyclingsafari.blogspot.co.nz/

Looked after by Chris @ http://www.puresports.co.nz/
For all your Rohloff and Thorn Bicycle's in NZ