Author Topic: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?  (Read 183470 times)

David Simpson

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #150 on: April 08, 2015, 07:02:31 pm »
When someone says that something is the "best", my question is "best for what?". Each design is a compromise, and what is best for one person may be very different from what is best for another person. What is the best vehicle? A small fuel-efficient car? A racing car? A large cargo vehicle? It all depends on what you want to do with it. I think the "Rohloff vs derailleur" question is the same. It all depends on what you want to do with it, and what you value in a bike transmission.

Disclaimer: I have a Rohloff, and I think it is the best thing since sliced cheese.  :)

- Dave

p.s. Welcome back, jags!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2015, 07:05:30 pm by davidjsimpson »

Kuba

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #151 on: April 08, 2015, 07:46:58 pm »
Hear, hear!

I've got both but will be selling the Rohloff bike shortly. Just back from a mini-tour on my new XTC with SLX drivetrain (pics & report coming soon), which worked a treat and I've no doubt is better than Rohloff for my needs. But I'm currently into shorter, lightweight tours, and really like the liveliness of light rear end and nippiness of STI shifting.

I think a lot of controversy arise from Thorn presenting the Rohloff as the best drivetrain, end of. Which it is not, it's just an excellent one, just like top-shelf Shimano groupsets.

jags

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #152 on: April 08, 2015, 09:12:27 pm »
Cheers Dave i like the  last bit of that post  ;D ;D
yeah horses for courses as the man said each to there own,
rohloff will die in a few years time never to be heard of again, but the ould derailleur will run forever.

Kuba i think i'm fighting a loosing battle here. ::).

Danneaux

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #153 on: April 08, 2015, 11:03:08 pm »
Hi All!

I have both Rohloff and ancient derailleur drivetrains among the bicycles I own. I like both, for several reasons. My 5- and 6-speed freewheels and chainrings are thick and robust and long-lived, and my half-step and granny gearing setups give me an easy shift sequence and adequate highs and lows for the places I use them most. My 7-sp half-step setup worked equally well. It had the option of friction or indexed shifting in the rear lever and it stayed in indexed mode most of the time. It was also convenient and long-lived. The same can be said for my tandem I captain, where indexed 6-speed at the rear is welcome on a long bike where it can sometimes be hard to hear what's going on in the Engine Room way back past the Rear Admiral.

Old derailleur drivetrains aren't like modern derailleur drivetrains. There's much to be said on the good side for new, but I not only don't mind friction shifting, I take some joy in the skills I've acquired to shift smoothly. Indexing is convenient, but not really necessary with fewer than 7 cogs. I can't shift under power, but on the other hand, I don't need to. The momentary pause in power application has by this time become so ingrained, I needed no adaptation when I got the Rohloff which requires the same momentary pause.

The old derailleur setups have proven so reliable, I almost can't remember the last time I missed a shift. Being thick and wide, they don't clog, they really don't need much cleaning thanks to my full coverage mudguards and generous front mudflaps, and I oil them once every several (long, 300-400km/day) rides. Parts last almost forever, partly because my half-step gearing is setup so my most-used gears have almost no chain deflection, wear is distributed evenly across the gear combinations, and there's a lot of wear surface. My chainrings are still looking good on a couple of my most used bikes at tens of thousands of kilometers. I do replace chains often, long before their wear limits are reached. Life with the Old Bikes is still Very Good indeed.

My complaint about more modern (i.e. 9-sp plus) derailleur drivetrains is -- as a high-mileage cyclist -- they don't last very long in my use even with the greater and more frequent care I've found they require. I can and do wear through a set of chainrings, a whole cassette, and chain in a half-summer's use (600-mile/960km weeks aren't unusual in High Season) and be well on my way through the replacement set by Fall. The narrower, profiled teeth and chain to match are thin and wear more quickly and this is costly. Because cogsets are riveted together in cassettes, separate cogs aren't available and if one wears unduly, the lot has to be tossed. The profiled teeth don't take kindly to reprofiling with a die-grinder. Also, I find I don't care so much for the crossover gearing that is necessitated by so many cogs at the rear.

I still love my old (derailleur) bikes and can't imagine selling them when they've so many remaining years of life left in them. I'll continue to reprofile the gear teeth with a high-speed die-grinder when they start to hook, and then retemper them. They should be good for awhile yet. When parts are no longer available, then I'll likely switch from freewheels to now equally obsolete 7-speed cassettes on freehubs, though it will mean spreading the rear stays.

Several years on, the appeal to me of the Rohloff is to be found not in how different it is from my old derailleur setups, but in how similar. My Nomad's 36x17 setup almost perfectly duplicates the half-step and granny gearing on my most-used, 31 year-old rando-touring bike. That bike has 13 usable gear combinations out of 15; the Rohloff offers 14. It just lops off two uselessly high top gears that are there to pad out the middle range of my freewheel, and adds two most welcome lower gears. Shifting is as easy, but no moreso except for being able to shift while stationary. Chainline is as straight as that for my most-used derailleur gears. So far, the Rohloff drivetrain seems the most likely successor to my old derailleur drivetrains and is working as well. I expect it will last a long time, and that is important to me, someone who keeps my bikes for many years.

Running with drop handlebars, I find the Rohloff shifter mounted on a Thorn Accessory T-bar to be no more or less convenient than my preferred downtube shifters or bar-end shifters on the derailleur bikes.

One area where I see a clear advantage is for my use cross-country and on single-track. Having no rear derailleur to hang down and catch sticks is a decided benefit, and there's no possibility of chainsuck, which is also welcome. Instead of repacking my hub and freewheel, both are taken care of by periodic oil changes. Cleanup is much quicker and easier because I don't have to floss between cogs. I am -- truly! -- a Happy Camper with my Rohloff expedition bike, but still delighted with my old derailleur bikes. There's certainly room for both in my stable.

Cheerfully,

Dan.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 01:26:04 am by Danneaux »

Relayer

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #154 on: April 17, 2015, 09:37:01 am »
There's always challenges in pros and cons!

For instance, having as a con that a Rolloff doesn't use someone else's proprietary changer system; it can be a preference, but it's a real hard felt choice, right there.

I used the term STI/Ergo as a generic name for shifting from the brake hoods, think 'Hoover' for vacuum cleaners. However, I have amended the term to 'Brifter', and if that name is someone else's proprietary trademark then too bad.

Not all Rohloffs are disc compatible..true enough, but the same can be said for other designs of hub, IGM or not

True, but a new rear Deore disc hub can be got for less than £20.

Andre
I am not yet 60 years old, but I will be dead and buried long before I have spent more than half the cost of a Rohloff on deraiileur parts.

JimK
I agree that multiple shifts are easy with a Rohloff, but one change of the front chainring can equate to many changes on a Rohloff, two changes on a triple even more so. When I was toiling up hills I used to tell myself to ignore the 1-7 noise from the Rohloff, but it was nonetheless disheartening while I scrambled to make more downward gear changes than I would with a derailleur.

Bobs
I have tried a Rohloff to compare them, the Rohloff is now gone. This was not entirely down to dissatisfaction with the Rohloff, but I would have had to get it modified to an EX Box and disc brake compatible shell to go with the style of bike I wanted to change to ... too much expense and hassle.

Dave / Kuba
Spot on.

Dan
I don't do anything like the mileage you do.  When I was young I was perfectly happy with 5-speed; but when I got my Galaxy I was even happier with 7 speed at the back, even although I had to bear listening to a luddite preaching that nobody needs more than 5.


Where I am now is that for the past few years the bike of my dreams has been a 700c Rohloff drop bar disc brake bike. However I could not bring myself to pay circa £3,500 on one, especially since it would only be one of 4 bikes and therefore not do a massive mileage. I have therefore opted for a similar style of bike with derailleurs for half the price. That, for my circumstances, is the bottom line. But, if I was to get an unexpected windfall ....

I am not trying to antagonise the good people here who love their Rohloffs, but I just had to get a few things off my chest.   ;D

Jim

P.S. Dan, please don't take my luddite comment as any kind of reference to you, I know and fully understand why you love and cherish your bikes. I think 7 speed cassettes are now the equivalent of that chap's 5 speed, anyway if I had the space to have kept my Galaxy I would have continued to ride it to this day and for many years to come.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 10:19:11 am by Relayer »

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #155 on: April 17, 2015, 09:51:11 am »
Good thinking Jim.
Horses for courses?

I was lucky enough to have a wind-fall so went for the Rohloff and haven't looked back.
I only have the one bike. But another windfall may be on the horizon and a complete change of bike type will be tempting.

Matt
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

Andre Jute

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #156 on: April 17, 2015, 11:46:32 am »
You make a good argument, Jim, for your use. I agree with Matt: horses for courses. We're all adults (unfortunately!) and the majority are pretty experienced cyclists. If we can't each decide for ourselves which bike is best for our conditions and use, it would be a pretty dull cycling world, everybody on a 1970s ten-speed with drop bars, just like the UCI wants. In fact, it is such a depressing prospect, I don't even want to think about it.

alfie1952

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #157 on: April 17, 2015, 01:39:19 pm »
Hi Jim,

Glad you stuck around and are spouting words of wisdom. As another member said " Horses for courses "

Ps , has your new bike arrived ? I will email you photograph of the nomad build.

Regards Alfie
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 02:07:04 pm by alfie1952 »

jags

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #158 on: April 17, 2015, 03:52:43 pm »
yes Alfie got my new bike but i havent been on it this past 3 weeks or more not feeling the best but hopefully  these new drugs im on will sort me out.
thanks for the photos it's a class bike for sure i hope you get some great tours on it.
Ireland can be nice if the sun is out ;)

i was drooling over a mercury the other day have to admit i certainly chance a rohloff on it  ::)

anto.

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #159 on: April 18, 2015, 12:04:51 am »
Alfie.
Can we all see the new bike please?
Matt
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

Danneaux

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #160 on: April 18, 2015, 06:40:18 am »
Hi Jim!

No offense taken here. I understand your statement and didn't take it personally. I love all my bikes,  derailleur and Rohloff.

I'm pretty fond of most other bikes as well and am thinking of building up another Fixie with long-distance use in mind for my 108mi flat Valley training loops. I have a 1972 road bike that is at a crossroads: 10-sp restoration with the original Campagnolo Nuovo Record or go with a track cog...or braze on some canti bosses and make a gravel grinder or cyclocross bike. The frame is versatile enough to do any or all of these; I just need to choose which direction to go with it. I would like the purity of a single cog/gear and no freewheeling on one of my bikes. I just have to make sure I use it where it won't break my knees.

All the best,

Dan.

jags

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #161 on: April 18, 2015, 11:39:17 am »
Dan my son Noel rides a fixie all the time he reckons its great for training  but for the life of me all i can see is a piece of junk i'de sooner ride a rohloff. ::)

alfie1952

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #162 on: April 19, 2015, 11:45:56 am »
Jags,

NO YOU WOULD NOT.... Fibber  :D

Alfie

jags

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #163 on: April 19, 2015, 12:18:33 pm »
Shsssss say no more  ;D ;D

Mike Ayling

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Re: Rohloff - What's YOUR Opinion ?
« Reply #164 on: April 20, 2015, 02:18:27 am »


i was drooling over a mercury the other day have to admit i certainly chance a rohloff on it  ::)

anto.

I just bought a Mercury. I decided to get one after riding our Rohloff equipped Thorn tandem for a couple of years.
Rohloff definitely fits in with the way I ride.

Mike