My New Raven Tour

[stutho]

Hi Freddered,
Congratulation.  I wish you many happy miles together

Your post is an excellent summery of the raven.

[freddered]

Latest update.  

I got the Raven on my Mag Trainer last night and did some adjusting.  I noticed that the saddle on the Raven was set a few inches further back from the bottom bracket than my Tourer (ie. A vertical line from nose of saddle was further from bottom bracket and nearer back wheel).  I have pushed saddle forward on rails to compensate.  This may explain the aching legs as I am obviously used to being over the pedals more. Also I fitted my Brooks B11 saddle.

This is my first threadless stem and it's great (if you take heed of Note 1 below).  I have an accessory bar fitted (for computer and GPS) and I was able to drop height of bars, raise accessory bar in about 2 minutes.  What a great idea.  Now here comes Note 1.

Note 1.  Threadless stems are great IF !!!.. you ask SJSC to leave the stem long and pack it with lots of spacers.  (I did this and I have lots of options now, including room for another accessory bar if required). I have tried to think why you would not leave at least some room for adjustment and options....etc, but I can't.  These are 'expedition' bikes where options are always welcome.  You have been warned, once it's cut it stays cut.

Cane Creek Bar Ends - They seem perfect for intended purpose of climbing out of saddle and provide a nice, soft, flat hand-position for relaxed riding.  However, I stripped the allen-key head trying to re-tighten one of them after adjusting it.  They need to be quite tight and the key is a small one.  I replaced it with a 8mm bolt and it's fine.  Note, they make the bars VERY wide when used with Comfort Bars (my drops are VERY narrow so it may be my perception only).

The carbon bar-end mounted in-board are great, very comfy fit and work like mini-Tri-Bars.
Because the Grip-shift takes up a lot of room the right hand Bar-end is pushed too far (for me) around the curve of the bars.  I had to squash the gripshift against the foam grip to gain an inch or so.  Now the bar-ends are in a more upright position and suit me better.  I think another option it to swap them over, use them upside-down so they flare out rather than in.  Then you could mount them on the inner bar without issue.  Someone else can try that.

Rotating the comfort bars has the effect of adjusting both height and reach so it's possible to fine tune very easily.

Note 2 - If Batman had handlebars they would look like my handlebars.

So this is adjustment #1 completed.  I still have another 2 inches of stem available if I need to drop bars any further.  

I'll try to stick some photos up on Pbase or somewhere as I know I was desperate for images/options when I was thinking of buying one.

[goosander]

I'd love to see some photos, it would be very useful.  thanks.

[freddered]

Here are some photos of it straight out of the box.  Small photos but I just quickly set up a freebie web site.

http://www.geocities.com/freddered1/THORN.html

[goosander]

Thanks for posting the pics.  They must be popular - only up for 40 mins and already getting the 'data transfer exceeded' message.

[Grimian]

Hi Freddered
Nice looking bike ........ I bet you're pleased!![]

Can you tell me what sort of space grip you are using underneath the stem ....... it's a great idea if you want extra lights, computer etc. I have not seen one used in this position before!

[freddered]

It's from SJSC.  Search on 'Accessory' on their parts web page  http://www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm

PS.  I have since swapped the Accessory bar and Handlebars.  The Handlebars are now a couple of inches lower and the Accessory Bar sits nicely on top for Computer.  I still have room for another one underneath, maybe perfect for a couple of Lights.

[Grimian]

Thanks for that!! ....... I may decide on using this as I will probably need more space for extras!

[Arnaud]

Hello from Down Under.
I collected my new Raven Sports Tour from Customs on Wednesday 22 February. It has been a pleasure to deal with SJS Cycles. It took me less than 48 hours to make the decision and then Adrian rang me home to assist me with the choice of accessories. The bike was very well packed and after reading all the manuals it didn't take me long to put it together.
With a black matt frame and a red speedhub I call it RED BACK (look it up, this is one of the most venomous spider in Australia and my farm shed is full of it).
Jenny, my neighbour, finds the bike beautiful. There you have it: no need to own a Ferrari or Alfa Romeo to impress the girls...
My first impressions: it is fast, the steering is very responsive and the speedhub is a delight to use; I love it.
I 'll post my point of view regarding the so called "weaknesses" on the Rohloff specific forum.
My advice: Just do it, spoil yourself and get one. You will feel ten years younger (it counts when like me you are dangerously close to 60).

Arnaud

[freddered]

Yesterday was my first chance to do any miles (33miles), it was just above freezing and blowing a gale from all directions so not the ideal day to make any meaningful comparisons.
The one comparison I can make is the handlebars.  I got very bad tingling (pins & needles) and slight numbness in my left hand towards the end of the ride.  I got round this by using the inboard bar-ends more (but high-winds make this precarious).  The bars do give you lots of control in high winds but they also make you susceptible to them.

OK, the infamous 7th gear.  I found myself using either 6th or 8th because I don't see any advantage of using 7th.  I freely admit that it may be psychological (given the whirring effect) but any advantage of dropping from 8th to 7th seems to be lost in mechanical activity.  Same for changing up from 6th to 7th, there doesn't seem to be any gain.
Reminds me of riding an exercise bike in fact.  Once again, 8 and above are silent and well spaced.  All gears are rock solid without any fear of slipping.  Gripshift works well (but is not as convenient as STI/Drop bars).

So, after 1st week of ownership (Thorn Raven Tour) my current verdict is 7 out of 10.  If you like riding Flat Bars and need a rock-solid handling bike to carry luggage over a variety of road surfaces, at a moderate pace, you'd probably score it 10 out of 10 (Fit some fat Schwalbe Marathons, sit back and enjoy the scenery).

Will post another review in a couple more weeks (after a warmer, less windy day).

[freddered]

News just in on the issue of Rohloff effficiency.

http://www.ihpva.org/pubs/HP52.pdf

This compares a variety of bike transmissions and their efficiency.
The Rohloff IS less efficient than the Derailleur in this report BUT not by as much as I imagined.  Across all gears the Derailleur is around 93% efficient and the Rohloff around 90.5% (this is a rough average as you will see each gear varies for both systems).

2.5% will slow you from 20mph to 19.5mph (as a very basic example).

This does not take into account my swap from 700x28 tyres to 26x1.5 tyres.  It does not take into account my new, more upright riding position (Flats rather than drops).  I suspected I am 1mph down on average (although high winds made it difficult to be sure) therefore there is probably a 5% cumulative negative effect of gears/tyres/position (for me that is, if you already ride fatter tyres and sit more upright then disregard this).

I have a 200 mile day ride planned this summer.  5% equates to 10 miles which is a big chunk of an hour at the pace I'll be travelling.

Can I afford to add an hour to a trip which is on my limits ?  Watch this space for more comments. You must also consider that I can't see a lot of my rear derailleur at the moment due to the congealed mass of grease and dirt covering it.  I doubt if it's operating quite as efficiently as those hub-gears in their nice clean oil-bath.
 
PS.  Hats off to Rohloff for making it so efficient given the amount of stuff happening inside the hub.

[stutho]

Hi freddered,  

I know exactly what you mean 'Reminds me of riding an exercise bike'.  However I do find that I travel faster in 7 than in 6.  Over all I believe my Raven is more efficient than my Trek 7700 (XT equip.).  I cycle the same hilly route every day, I find that I am faster on the Raven and also less tired.  Strangely it feel like I am travelling slower on the Raven. Don’t forget that you hub is still new – it takes a while for the gears to bed in.

PS I think that your calculations may be wrong.  If you accept that air resistance is the major factor affecting speed then a 2.5 % efficiency reduction in the hub will drop speed by 0.6% (speed is proportional to inverse square of power). The true answer will be slightly higher than 0.6% and a lot lower than 2.5%.

[stutho]

Addendum

A more upright ride position will have by far the biggest effect on overall mechanical efficiency (at speed). At slower speed an upright position has little effect on mechanical efficiency and is probably more efficient from a philological prospective.

[freddered]

Obviously I knew that and I was just testing you...cough.  Maybe the riding position/wind resistance is the main culprit.

I agree with the perception comment though, it does feel like it's moving slower.  I think this may be the 'magic carpet ride' quality I mentioned previously.  

Question, what was the spec of your TREK ?  Flat Bars?  What tyres ?

[stutho]

Trek 7700 is a light aluminium hybrid (no suspension).  700c 1.5 Tyres XT equipment but FLAT bars! I've got drops on the Raven.  The Trek is a really nice bike,I would, and have recommended it.  It's just the Raven is better []