Author Topic: Sorting out Schwalbe's balloon tires  (Read 20056 times)

Andre Jute

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Sorting out Schwalbe's balloon tires
« on: May 02, 2013, 07:18:40 pm »
In praise of riding low pressure tyres fast tells you why you should consider low pressure tires, commonly called balloons. Here I want to look at what's available in balloons from the premier maker, Schwalbe.

Let's sort out Schwalbe's balloon tires:

Schwalbe has realigned the successful Big Apple line with new introductions.

First, they dropped the famous Liteskin folding Big Apples, presumably because they weren't selling. I don't know why that is, because the Liteskins I have are as comfortable and secure on the road, more so in fact because of their lighter weight, and last as long, as the standard Big Apples, and even for rough tarmac use their lighter sidewalls are not vulnerable. Perhaps it is a perceptual thing with customers. However that may, the Liteskins are gone, and much regretted by the cognoscenti. I have a spare pair, so I'm okay, thanks for asking.

All the new lines, now grouped under the somewhat offensive category name of "Fatty" -- geez, these Germans could do with a term or two in charm school -- have wire beads. There are still two weight classes, but that does not imply a replacement for the folding Liteskin. Rather, Schwalbe has introduced a slightly inferior, economy model in each range at what looks like a loss-leader price, and that is lighter than the standard, superior tyre because less dense materials, or less of them, were used in the construction. The new, economy line is called the "Active Line" in general, though not labelled such. In each of the Big Apple lines, and presumably elsewhere in the Schwalbe range, there is a "Performane Line, Wire Bead", which is the standard, exceptional tyre we have come to expect from Schwalbe, and a cheaper "Wire Bead" tyre which is the economy line. The economy line is usually lighter, though not by much. These slightly dumbed-down tyres are still very likely a good high step up from the nearest competition in quality, though perhaps not so far in price.

I imagine that when the good times return, these economy tyres will disappear from the range again. Schwalbe's history and style and experience is all in premium tires that justify their price by being the best on every conceivable parameter except price; I don't imagine such a proud family firm has any intention of grubbing it out with brands which have nothing to offer except price.

Or maybe the economy tyres won't disappear, they'll just creep up in price and specification. You see, the standard really good tyres come in one cosmetic flavour only, black with a reflex stripe. The cheaper, less dynamically capable, probably not as long-lasting cheap version is also available in "creme", light tan called "brown" and "graphite gray", and in the Fat Frank line in two-tone tan contact surface with cream sidewalls. It may be that there's a niche for flashy retro bikes that don't need the higher quality of the standard, black-only range. Black is the fourth "color" in the economy range, but I don't see big sales for it when the creme and brown look so good and the graphite grey is so practical while still being different from plain black.

Your standard Big Apple now has the HS430 profile, comes with Raceguard puncture protection and reflex safety stripe and the Endurance compound for the rolling surface; it is called the "Performance Line, Wire Bead". It signals that it is the serious rider's Big Apple by going all the way up to 60x622mm, the full 29er.

The cheaper Wire Bead version offers the colors, and some have the good Kevlar Guard protection for no extra cost, while others have the proven Schwalbe "Puncture Protection", all also have the reflex circle on the sidewall, and all come with SBC, Scwalbe's Basic Compound rather than the Endurance rolling surface of the more expensive sister. The Wire Bead version of the HS 430 only goes up to 50x622 though in 26in wheels you can get 55mm width. This, in the colors, I think could easily become the show tyre that has go as well.

The new Big Apple Plus is the model for paranoids and ghetto cruisers. It has a 3mm GreenGuard puncture protection strip under the rolling surface which reminds me of the one in the Marathon Plus I always found perfectly puncture-proof. There's a smaller range of these but they are all black and all have the Endurance tread. There is no cheap "Wire Bead" line here. A tyre for serious riders who cover serious distances over seriously hostile tarmac.

The Big Ben is a Big Apple with off-road pretensions, delivered with a slightly taller tread for better grip in the rough. Interestingly, some versions of this tyre has R75 certification for fast E-bikes. I imagine that will give this tyre serious sales, so this one will most likely be a star at the discounters. With the Endurance compound available only in black, with the colours available only with the SCB in the cheaper version. There's also a 40mm Little Big Ben but it's a parasite on the glory tires, having to be inflated to at least 50psi which hardly makes it a member of any balloon tyre family.

Finally, theres the Fat Frank with the HS 375 profile, which is a show tyre with a show tread. However this is the only Schwalbe ballo0n available with the Endurance compound in the Performance Line in the colors. (All the other ranges offer the colours only on the cheaper, less capable tires.) They go up to 60x559 and 50x522 and all have the KevlarGuard, which offers pretty decent protection. The two-tone brown and white tyre is, as one would by now expect, available only on the cheaper line, with the SBC surface.

Two further tyres in the Schwalbe line are also low-pressure balloons, though their purpose is not primarily comfort. Depending on your needs you could also look at the Marathon Supreme HS 382 60x622mm or either of the 50x559 models; or the Marathon Dureme Tandem, available in 50x559 for tandems and other really heavy loads.

You can go perve over the new Schwalbe balloon tires at http://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires/fatty

Schwalbe also maintains a good site about the advantages of balloon-tyred bikes at
http://www.balloonbikes.com/en/

Andre Jute
My own balloon bike, in case you haven't seen it, is the Utopia Kranich at  http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 05:36:47 am by Hobbes »

Danneaux

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Re: Sorting out Schwalbe's balloon tires
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2013, 07:54:45 pm »
Quote
I'm okay, thanks for asking.
Aww, you're always okay in my books, Andre!  ;)

Thanks so much for this. In my corner of the world such things are rarely seen on the roads. I saw my first pair of Big Apples in person yesterday on a Surly Long Haul Trucker, and now I can much better visualize how it would be to ride them and what they would do to a bike in terms of handling (pneumatic trail).

One question borne of the one deep disappointment I have wrt my Duremes: In your experience, do Schwalbe's balloon tires (tyres) wobble, or are the treads spot-on for running true?

I have to admit my wobbledy Duremes (I have 6 total and they all do it, including the two folding examples) don't seem to affect handling, but the appearance of wobble in such an expensive tire is unseemly in my eyes, and a disappointment. I put it down to the 2.0in/50mm width, but that can't be the cause if the wider balloon tires run true.

I can see myself going this route someday, Andre, and the natural suspension appeals greatly...have you any reports on balloon tires' durability/suitability for heavily loaded or expedition touring?

Thanks again for another fine essay.

All the best,

Dan.

JimK

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Re: Sorting out Schwalbe's balloon tires
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2013, 09:04:28 pm »
You can search Schwalbe tires by ETRTO. For example:

=559-60&type=All]http://www.schwalbetires.com/product_search?field_etrto_value_many_to_one[]=559-60&type=All

Lots of very knobby tires but also showing up is Crazy Bob and Super Moto.

I keep thinking, I should have gotten that 65 mm fenders instead of the 55 mm! Anyway, the 50 mm Supremes work great so... how long does it take to wear fenders out?

Andre Jute

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Re: Sorting out Schwalbe's balloon tires
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2013, 11:16:26 pm »
One question borne of the one deep disappointment I have wrt my Duremes: In your experience, do Schwalbe's balloon tires (tyres) wobble, or are the treads spot-on for running true?

I have to admit my wobbledy Duremes (I have 6 total and they all do it, including the two folding examples) don't seem to affect handling, but the appearance of wobble in such an expensive tire is unseemly in my eyes, and a disappointment. I put it down to the 2.0in/50mm width, but that can't be the cause if the wider balloon tires run true.

If by a "wobble" you mean that the tyre does not track straight at the top, both the Big Apple Liteskins 60x622 on my bike have a small wobble. I investigated visually what I could feel at the handlebars, that the contact patch tracks true -- which you can anyway deduce from the other thread where described the tyres' exemplary behaviour at speed on appalling road surfaces -- and decided not to obsess about it. It's such a small wobble, you have to riding slowly to see it.

I can see myself going this route someday, Andre, and the natural suspension appeals greatly...have you any reports on balloon tires' durability/suitability for heavily loaded or expedition touring?

You've long since joined the balloonbike revolution, Dan; what do you think those low-pressure 50mm Duremes are?

Several world and other major tours on Utopia Kranich wearing Big Apples. My bike and routine gear on it ready to ride away (full water bottles, 8.8Ah battery) weighs well over 30kg, and I'm another 92kg in riding clothes. The bike, on 60x622 Big Apples, is conservatively rated 170kg. There is a version of my Kranich frame (with heavier tubes than the specially Columbus butted tubes on mine) sold by WorkBikes to mothers with small children that routinely carries a large Dutchwoman, two children, and groceries; it runs on 50x622 Big Apples. At Pedersen they think the 60mm Big Apples are overkill, like many other manufacturers who ride their own bikes, they think the 50mm balloons are plenty good enough for all practical purposes.

I think my pair will make around 10,000km or just over 6,000 miles. They've done 6200 klicks, almost 4000 miles and the thin pattern is heading for invisibility on the rear tyre but doesn't seem much worn on the front one. But the tread is just cosmetic reassurance for people who won't grasp the scientific evidence that slicks offer superior roadholding, and Schwalbe's position is that you ride those tyres until the protection strip starts showing. The smoother they're worn, the better they will hold the road.

You can search Schwalbe tires by ETRTO. For example:

=559-60&type=All]http://www.schwalbetires.com/product_search?field_etrto_value_many_to_one[]=559-60&type=All

Lots of very knobby tires but also showing up is Crazy Bob and Super Moto.

I keep thinking, I should have gotten that 65 mm fenders instead of the 55 mm! Anyway, the 50 mm Supremes work great so... how long does it take to wear fenders out?

Thanks for that, Jim. The Super Moto is interesting but the complete lack of any puncture protection is a bit offputting for town or touring use...

I have the P65 fenders, and they cover 60mm tyres so skimpily, I'd want them even with 55mm or 50mm tires. I don't think those fenders will wear out. That's one tough plastic.

Andre Jute

edhombre

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Re: Sorting out Schwalbe's balloon tires
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2014, 10:57:01 pm »
I know this is an old thread but I just wanted to say I found it super useful when I found it researching Big Apples for my commute/simple off road MTB and I came across this thread! Thank you OP! Excellent information.

Just wanted to add that although the Liteskin range has technically gone now the current Performance line (Endurance compound/Raceguard protection) has Liteskin sidewalls and according to specs is only slightly heavier than the original Liteskins - only something like 10% heavier. I doubt anyone would notice the difference.

BTW.... only had the BA's one day but WHAT a difference for urban riding. Cannot recommend enough. Bike feels lighter, faster and the ride is so so much smoother than the stock tires (Kenda Komforts) that came with my bike. It actually feels like magic.

Thanks again!

Andre Jute

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Re: Sorting out Schwalbe's balloon tires
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2014, 12:45:02 am »
My pleasure, Ed. I'm happy you found the information useful, and that my fave tyres give you too a great ride.