Towards a UNIVERSAL, PORTABLE Rohloff handlebar control

[Andre Jute]

I'm very happy with the first series Rohloff triangular, rubber covered control right next to the grip on my North Road bars. I hope one or two of you, when you buy these newfangled Rohloff controls for your drop bars and whatnots, to replace newish triangular or round controls, will send the cast-off controls to me to keep as spares.

However, my business is creativity, ideas, solutions. So let me throw this into the pot. The solutions that have been under discussion in other threads are dull. All they are, are copies of the existing Rohloff control for fitting elsewhere on a piece of tube, or on a different diameter tube. Each one drags an ankle-chain of its own limitations with it. Not one of them solves more than one petty problem. The smallest change to your setup, and once more you have spend money and time on yet another solution. It's inefficient and wasteful to proceed in this manner.

What we need is some lateral thinking, and specifically towards a UNIVERSAL Rohloff control that goes from bike to bike with you, and is indifferent to the type of handlebars you use.

The Rohloff gearchange is effected by two cables puliing independently. There is no reason whatsoever to make the control rotary except habit. That is hardly ever a good reason.

My proposal is that the two cables are attached to a springloaded switchover, which can be manipulated by a single tumbler switch or self-centering trigger. I especially like the trigger because it can be fitted anywhere on handlebars to be operated with a thumb, or in a plug in the tube end of drop bars or the outside end of straight or riser or North Road bars, and operated with the little finger.

Open for discussion.

Andre Jute

[jags]

Andre what about going electric  touch of a button would that work,

[Andre Jute]

Andre what about going electric  touch of a button would that work,

Yes, and it would be cheap too if not too ambitious, for instance implemented as a three-position spring loaded toggle-switch or rocker switch with up-centre-down and a single reversible impulse motor to pull one or the other of the cables according to which way the rider flicks the switch. I had such a switch on my Cyber Nexus full auto commuter/tourer and you'd be surprised how small the parts can be. There is no reason the complete unit shouldn't be small enough to live in the end of your handlebar.

Here's an altogether more ambitious way of doing it, with a motor on the hub itself, and a li-ion battery. http://www.edsanautomation.com.au/EdsanProducts.htm It's beautifully made, but for 600 smackers landed cost I want a full auto change and dancing girls to fit it.

In theory a no-cables radio controlled unit can probably be made cheaply by making it work with Rohloff's EXT box and two little rods or very short cables, but I don't see the point. Every existing Rohloff installation already has working cable runs to the handlebars, and it is a proven solution. All that needs to be changed, and then only for a minority of riders who won't give up their drop bars, is the mode of switching gears, from rotary to something that fits a variety of handlebar formats more easily.

Andre Jute

[NZPeterG]

Andre what about going electric  touch of a button would that work,

Hi Jags,
You can buy a electric gear shifter for your Rohloff off E-Bay!
They have been made for over a year.. 

Pete......
 

[Danneaux]

The Rohloff gearchange is effected by two cables puliing independently. There is no reason whatsoever to make the control rotary except habit. That is hardly ever a good reason.

My proposal is that the two cables are attached to a springloaded switchover...

Who are you, and what have you done with the real Andre Jute?  

-  -  -  -

Open for discussion.

For me, on drop 'bars, I'm really pleased with my "T-bar shifter mount *above* the stem" approach, and could see it as a Universal approach for my other bicycles. One great benefit of it is my handlebars are left free and unencumbered, leaving the entire 'bar open for hands and accessories (interrupter levers, rando cue sheet holder, computer, inclinometer, etc. The T-bar itself is the perfect mount for my GPS and the inclinometer, leaving enough room on the left side to attach my GoPro camera clamp. Sure, it looks strange and probably repellent to many, but even that is an advantage to me if it lowers the theft potential of the bike. Besides the unconventional appearance, I really haven't found a downside for my use. The reach to the shifter is no more than it would be on straight 'bars if bar-ends were used.

When I recently changed 'bars and stem...no problem! The T-bar mounted Rohloff simply lifted off the steerer and slid right back on again, cables and housings intact and no disassembly or adjustment needed.

With my initial setup with the T-bar riding atop the Thorn/Zoom anatomic 'bars and  a longer stem, the shifter rode directly over the handlebar. With the change to compact drops and a shorter stem, the shifter now rides ahead of the 'bars by about a handlebars' width -- even better for my needs. I can grasp and shift the Rohloff knob just as one would with it inline on straight 'bars...or grasp it from the end as I do a doorknob. I can snap off single shifts or the entire half-range of 7 shifts at a crack. Finger clearance is not a problem.

If I decide to go for for straight, arc, H, trekking, moustache, or comfort 'bars in future...I'd keep the same setup, for it is truly indifferent to the type of handlebars used. For me, having the standard Rohloff shifter control handy but independent of the 'bars has been key to my satisfaction and utility. This same independence from the 'bars has transformed the shifter into a truly universal product...so long as I have a threadless steerer to attach it. A similar setup could be made for quill stems.

My experience has been so successful, I am beginning to think what is needed fpr most needs is/are a variety of independent mounts rather than a new shifter (your patient efforts at persuasion have converted me, Andre -- yikes!).

Several years ago, Tout Terrain showed a rough prototype double-lever RapidFire-style thumbshifter that got 'round the rotary business and could be considered universal to a degree, but it has gone nowhere despite the apparent demand for just such a shifter. Mittelmeyer are also stalled on their own Rapid-Fire and brifter-style Rohloff shifter development.

There will likely always be a bifurcation in controls between drops and straights 'cos of the difference in diameter. Co-Motion have got 'round that by clamping their Rohloff shifter onto the handlebar's center bulge...so long as it is 31.8. It could be adapted to smaller diameters via shims. Still, much as with derailleur shifters, we're likely to need at least two kinds of shifters to match not only the dimensions but the needs of Road vs. MTB -- again, so long as the shifter is dependent on a handlebar mount. Get around that (as I have by going over, Freddered by going below on our drops), and you've got much of what you're calling for.

Going with targeted mounts is not unlike the case with bar-end shifters (bar-cons) for derailleur bikes, Andre. Plug 'em into the ends of road, pursuit, bullhorn or tri bars, and you're set. Want 'em on your MTB or upright tourer? Pull the lever assemblies and put them on some Paul's-style mounts ( http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/paul-mountain-thumbies-bar-end-gear-lever-shifter-mounts-222-mm-band-on-shimano-version-prod24619/ ) available in a variety of band diameters to even fit oversize 31.8mm  Road bike handlebar clamp diameters. Equipped thusly, bar-cons can become stem-mounted thumbies if you wish, and nearly wherever you wish.

While waiting for my Nomad -- before I owned a Rohloff of my own --  I developed a solution that meets your requirements; it is cheap to produce, would sell well if demand existed, and it is a truly universal solution. Now...would it sell? Is there a real demand for such things, or does the OEM Rohloff shifter work well enough to meet most people's practical needs? Ah, that's the question! If the demand was truly there, I'd licence the design, or simply have it produced under contract in China. The thing fits all bikes -- threaded or threadless steerer, any handlebar, any stem without restriction and is so devilishly simple, others have missed it; their complicated designs are proof of that. It would cost very little to produce commercially, as does Rohloff's own shifter.

I've got the answer, Andre; now...is the demand there?

All the best,

Dan.

[Andre Jute]

That's why I open with my own satisfaction with the OEM Rohloff shifter used on the handebars for which it was intended: there is no great demand for any alternative. I don't expect any alternative to be viable except at boutique prices because they all are and will be custom-machining jobs solving single mickey mouse problems, rather than tacking the problem at root, that a rotary change isn't universal because of the variety of diameters and shapes of handlebars.

Andre Ergo Jute

[fleur]

Hi Jags,
You can buy a electric gear shifter for your Rohloff off E-Bay!
They have been made for over a year.. 

Pete......
 

Can you provide a link to those ?

[Andre Jute]

Can you provide a link to those ?

The Edsan ShiftEzy is at http://www.edsanautomation.com.au/EdsanProducts.htm

Andre Jute

[ZeroBike]

The Edsan ShiftEzy is at http://www.edsanautomation.com.au/EdsanProducts.htm

Andre Jute

Being honest, would anyone here even consider having one of these fitted?

[rualexander]

Being honest, would anyone here even consider having one of these fitted?

Not at that price!
If it was less than ?50, possibly.

[Andre Jute]

Being honest, would anyone here even consider having one of these fitted?

Not at that price!
If it was less than ?50, possibly.

Mmm.

1. The ShiftEzy solves a problem that went away if you just rode your Rohloff-equipped bike for a bit, viz a slightly stiff and notchy gear change; it is a problem Rohloff has since fixed with developments that do away with the old "running-in" period.

2. The ShiftEzy solved it in a suboptimal manner. The worst part of the Rohloff gearbox, before Rohloff took care of it, was that it was, for a while when new, a bit agriculturally crude to people who came to it from Shimano's smooth and appealing Nexus hub gearbox. The problem was partly in the cable run.  But, in any event, the cable run was the most exposed part of the Rohloff, and in some installations carried over from road bikes for reasons mysterious to me, bare wire runs were used, whose joining bits could seize up, instead of the full-length cable and EXT box that sealed the entire system. In practice, cables were rarely ripped out, but that is no reason for the ShiftEzy to replace a steel hawser with an electrical cable in the same place. That's no gain at all. It should have been a wireless radio connection instead. The hardwiring by itself is enough to tip the ShiftEzy from "desirable gadget" to "what problem does this thing solve?", closely followed by, "How much did you say?!"

3. We can easily determine what the ShiftEzy would be worth to each of us. Simply find some add-on on your bike that you would give up to have the ShiftEzy instead. Examples: the last alteration I made to my bike was a new chain, bottom bracket, Cospea Crankset, stainless chainring, total cost probably in the region of EUR 500 if you add in postage and spares bought at the same time. Would I give that up for a ShiftEzy? Ezy (sort!) answer: No way. Actually, there's something newer, a complete new BUMM light set http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGbuildingpedelec5.html ,  total cost probably EUR 120, around there anyway, but choosing a safety-related fitting loads the odds against the gadget. So let's choose something in the same price region that was a discretionary fitting. From unreliable memory, the n'lock on my bike cost around EUR 110 landed, with extras and post. http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3930.msg26347#msg26347 It partially replaced an Abus Granit X 54 U-lock and cable that did the job much more than adequately but weighed too much for my liking, so it wasn't strictly essential, merely a convenience item. Would I rather have the Edsan ShiftEzy than the n'lock. Duh! It's a no-brainer. I don't even notice that I change gears on my well run-in Rohloff box. But I notice with pleasure every time I turn the key in the n'lock and make my bike totally unattractive to thieves that I don't have to bend over to fit a u-lock; that n-lock earns its keep daily. To discover what the ShiftEzy would be worth to you, ask what you would give up for it.

4. At what price would I buy the ShiftEzy? I don't think I would, even if it were EUR 100 landed. As far as I can see it solves no problem I want solved, and is therefore added weight and complication without benefit.

5. What do they have to do to the ShiftEzy to get my attention? Remove the wires, make it wireless. Then I would pay around EUR 100 landed without blinking, and trash it without blinking if it doesn't do the business for me. Considering likely unit numbers and the high quality of the engineering on the ShiftEzy, the price will never be EUR 100 landed in Ireland.

6. The ShiftEzy could be made fully automatic at some developmental cost but minor parts cost. A fully automatic Rohloff gearbox might attract sales as a novelty, from me among others, possibly at up to EUR 500 landed. However, I've had a fully automatic hub gearbox bicycle http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html , and a pedelec is a form of infinitely variable transmission, and a high quality Bafang wheel with all controls and managers and electric supply http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGbuildingpedelec1.html can be landed here for about EUR 500, so once again the ShiftEzy becomes a discretionary gimmick.

7. The Edsan ShiftEzy is a niche product, a solution to impossible cable runs on Rohloff recumbents and suchlike; any general application it might have had once has been overtaken by developments in the Rohloff gearbox itself.

Andre Jute

[Tigerbiten]

I'm very tempted to get one of the ShiftEzy systems for the Rohloff on my recumbent trike.

Being a bit disabled, I'm missing left arm and have a bad wrist on the right hand side, the electronic shifter setup with the rocker switch would be ideal for me.
No twisting of the wrist to change gear = no sore wrist.
But I'm not to sure if it will fit on with the Carry Freedom trailer hitch in place.
I have to wait and see about that.

[Danneaux]

Sounds like a good solution for your needs, Ti'. Please let us know how you fare with it should you decide to go that route. I'd love to hear a "ride report" and see some photos of the installation.

Best,

Dan.

[swc7916]

As I have posted before, I am pretty satisfied with having the Rohloff shifter mounted on the right bar-end (drop bar.)  I spend 99% of the time on the hoods, so my hand drops naturally from the brake hood to the shifter.  My ideal Rohloff solution however, would be to modify Campy brifters so that I could shift without moving my hand at all (just like my derailleur bikes.)  Maybe the innards of the shifters could be replaced with switches so that they could operate a ShiftEZ unit. 

[Andre Jute]

My ideal Rohloff solution however, would be to modify Campy brifters so that I could shift without moving my hand at all (just like my derailleur bikes.)  Maybe the innards of the shifters could be replaced with switches so that they could operate a ShiftEZ unit.  

The two ShiftEzy switches, or the tumbler if individual switches don't suit, would be the easiest thing on it to replace, a small DIY job; if you buy your switches right, you may not even be required to solder.

The quality and ergonomic placement of switches can make or break such an installation. See my Smover bike at http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html for an example.

Andre Jute