Author Topic: best compression bags .  (Read 5077 times)

jags

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best compression bags .
« on: December 27, 2012, 07:32:46 pm »
Lads what's the best compression bags to buy i need to reduce the bulk in my panniers so if i can load up more stuff into a couple compression bags it should work out.
so a link to where i can buy would be good cheers.

jags.



Danneaux

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Re: best compression bags .
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2012, 07:59:38 pm »
Hi jags!

Sea-to-Summit make some nice ones out of e-vent fabric (air squishes out, water doesn't enter...supposedly, but I am deeply suspicious of such claims over the long haul; such things tend to work well in shorter timeframes). Outdoor Research (OR) make some nice ones, too.

Some examples:
http://www.rei.com/product/730882/sea-to-summit-event-compression-dry-sack
http://www.rei.com/product/766677/sea-to-summit-ultra-sil-compression-sack

And now...a kindly meant caution:
If you're looking to compress the daylights out of your sleeping bag (or foam pad, for that matter) to save a *lot* of room, please be cautious -- it is possible to damage the lofting potential of the compressed items if they're squashed too much for too long, and it can result in longer camp setup at the end of the day while you're waiting for the bag to "reinflate". I tried this for awhile, and concluded it wasn't worth getting colder and colder while performing CPR on the bag, when it could have done the job largely on its own in the half-hour it took me to cook and eat dinner. First task for me on getting to camp is to set up the tent and open and lay out the pad and bag, shaking them well, then letting them fluff on their own. Usually by the time I've finished eating, the sun is setting and it is getting cold. Nothing is more discouraging than finding the bag is still flat as a pannekoek ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannekoek I could live on that and some good, hot snert: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snert#Netherlands ) and the start of a colder than usual night awaits as a result.

I have decided to put my relatively light 'bag and pad in a dry sack atop my rear rack, so the lot can be a bit bigger without worry or bother. It sure has made a difference in bag longevity and readiness at the end of a long day, and if it is pouring, I just unstrap the dry sack and then remove the bag and pad directly from the sack into the tent while under cover of the vestibule. Makes the morning pack go more quickly for me, too, but there's a hundred ways to do it, everyone has their own pet method, and none are wrong. Most people I know seem to stuff their bags into their panniers, but I'm "different" in how I do things sometimes.

Overcompression can kill a synthetic bag amazingly quickly, and I have seen down bags' loft compromised over time by sustained over-compression. Some compression is fine, and for a relatively short period (say, the day's travel, rather than left in storage day after day), but it doesn't pay to overdo it.

A last caution, for those who wear contact lenses: Increasingly, sil-nylon is being used for rain lightweight rain gear, tents, dry- and compression sacks ("bags" tend to be thicker and heavier-duty than "sacks"). The silicone that impregnates such nylon transfers easily to hands and fingers, then to contact lenses, where it changes the surface tension and prevents tears from spreading evenly across the lens -- the dry spots can render even a fresh set of lenses unwearable. For that reason, I tend to avoid sil-nylon or wear some nitrile gloves when handling it. By the way, a study I read last year warned it can take 90 days or so for silicone to work its way out of the skin surface after handling, and contact lenses can be affected during this entire period.

Hope this helps, jags; I know you want to reduce your bulk, and that's a great and worthy goal.

All the best,

Dan. (...who thinks sleeping bags are a bit like people; they function well under a little pressure but tend to collapse under too much, sustained)
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 08:18:50 pm by Danneaux »

jags

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Re: best compression bags .
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2012, 08:22:11 pm »
Thanks for that Dan.
well to be honest the only time my tent and sleeping bag would be compressed is when i'm on tour .my sleeping bag lives in the hugh sack that came with it and yes i set up camp the same as yourself.
but for me to get back to using just rear paniers i badly need to reduce the bulk ,i will be buying a new sleeping mat in the new year maybe exped syn mat or neo air which ever is  the smallest lightest a nd preforms best. ;)
another thing i'm definity going to chnge if i go the rear panniers route is the front fork a nd as i'm not using panniers up front i think i'll go with the carbon fork, sjs do a fork that will suit my sherpa  means i have to buy a new brake as well.
ah if a fella had only money  ::)

Danneaux

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Re: best compression bags .
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2012, 08:34:24 pm »
Quote
...the only time my tent and sleeping bag would be compressed is when i'm on tour...
Ah, then I think you'd be fine with some moderate compression of the bag. No worries about compressing the tent so long as something like a zipper pull or buckle doesn't tear or split the door mesh (some careful checking the first time will tell you what you can get away-with).

I do something like this with my tent (the separate fly-and-inner model. I use a separate dry-sack to keep the inner tent dry and away from the fly. Usually, the bottom of the tent is pretty dry even if it has been raining, but the fly can be soaked with no time to dry before breaking camp if it is still pouring. Keeping the wet fly separate dies wonders for keeping the inner dry.

And yes, of course I stop and shake out the water and dry the fly as soon as possible; trapped moisture promotes the growth of mildew and causes seam tape to part company.

I've been experimenting recently with putting both inner (separated in its own sack) and fly in a true compression sack, then storing the poles and Ti stakes separately. It is incredible how much smaller this can make the tent itself. The poles then store elsewhere. This way just might make a huge difference for you, jags, and there's no loft to worry about compressing with a tent.

All the best,

Dan. (...aka The Incredible Bulk when it comes to carrying some things  :D )


Matt2matt2002

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Re: best compression bags .
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2012, 09:38:25 pm »
Sorry if I going off target with this one but....
Advice on long term off tour storage of tent and sleeping bag please.

Matt
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

il padrone

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Re: best compression bags .
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2012, 10:00:02 pm »
but for me to get back to using just rear paniers i badly need to reduce the bulk
Sorry if this is OT, but I personally see no value in touring with just rear panniers. In the past twenty years I have been a close witness to three separate incidents where cycling friends took very nasty falls with serious injuries (broken bones, punctured lungs, severe grazes). In each case they were carrying rear panniers and handlebar bag and the load distribution caused instability and loss of control.

I very much value the steering stability of front panniers and if I take a tent I load four panniers. In fact on occasion I have toured with solely front panniers when staying in accommodation and it is much more stable than using rear panniers.

Danneaux

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Re: best compression bags .
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2012, 10:01:55 pm »
Quote
Advice on long term off tour storage of tent and sleeping bag please.
Off tour?

Well, Big Agnes and other tent makers suggest leaving the tent loosely packed or even "fluffed" so it can get air to it. I store my three in nylon mesh laundry bags, and remove and tumble them quarterly (Fall, Winter, Spring, Summer). Manufacturers recommend they be stored in a cool, dry place with plenty of air circulation to prevent the formation of mildew which eats/rots the urethane rubbers used in waterproofing the fabrics and sealing the seam tapes. The first sign is a smell, accompanied in later stages by a gummy stickiness that glues the floor to the floor or the fly to itself.

Unfortunately, "cool, dry place with plenty of air circulation" often precludes a closet and makes storage of such gear a bit problematic at times. At the quarterly "airing sessions", it looks as if an outdoor store exploded in my livingroom.

Sleeping bags are to be stored in large, breathable storage sacks intended for that purpose -- never, ever compressed in a stuff sack or compression sack. The idea is (as with tents) to let them breathe in a cool, dry place to avoid mold and mildew formation...and *not* compress the insulation. Fortunately, most decent down and synthetic bags now include a storage sack as well as a compression or stuff sack on purchase.

Self-inflating pads should have the valve opened and left open, and not blown up with mouth air, which can cause breath moisture to be trapped inside.

*On-tour*, it is a really, really good idea to dry out your tent and avoid storing it damp/wet as much as possible for the same reasons to avoid mold/mildew formation and to keep it from steaming the sack, which causes loss of tape adhesion).

Sleeping bags should be reversed (turned wrongside-out) and aired -- if possible in sunshine -- to remove collected water vapor from overnight use. A lot of people drape them over their tents as they cook breakfast, preventing them from getting dirty on the ground or snagged on bushes. Over time and use while on-tour, I've found both synthetic and down bags tend to steadily lose loft unless aired in this way occasionally. Just this morning, I spread one of my down bags out atop the back of the sofa so it could warm and dry in the brief sunshine coming in the south-facing picture window. Manufacturers often line their bags in black-colored fabric which has the added advantage of absorbing heat a bit more quickly, helping to dry out the bag and its insulation.

Good care will greatly extend the life of tents, pads, and bags, but even so, moisture and use will eventually kill them. My little Gore-Tex bivy finally gave up the ghost when the floor rotted on my 2010 Great Basin Tour. Unfortunately, it chose to wait until I was camped atop Blizzard Gap in a storm of wind-driven ice pellets propelled by 70mph wind gusts. I did pretty well till the ice pellets turned to rain and it was no mo' tent from then on. Still, 34 years was a good run for the little bivy-tent, and the triple-layer Gore-Tex nexus is still good, so I will probably have a go at replacing the floor when I can find the time.

Hope this helps.

Best,

Dan. (who thinks "How dry I am" is a good motto when storing gear)

Danneaux

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Re: best compression bags .
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2012, 10:07:56 pm »
Quote
I very much value the steering stability of front panniers and if I take a tent I load four panniers. In fact on occasion I have toured with solely front panniers when staying in accommodation and it is much more stable than using rear panniers.
Pete,

My experience and sad observations are spot-on with yours. However, there are legions of tourists who prefer the old "rear bags and HB bag only" approach. It is a matter of preference, and seems to have done past riders like Ian Hibell in good stead.

That said, it is not a setup that works even remotely well for me. Like you, I either go full-zoot, or just a load at the front for greater stability.

Best,

Dan.

il padrone

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Re: best compression bags .
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2012, 10:11:52 pm »
I use a separate dry-sack to keep the inner tent dry and away from the fly. Usually, the bottom of the tent is pretty dry even if it has been raining, but the fly can be soaked with no time to dry before breaking camp if it is still pouring. Keeping the wet fly separate dies wonders for keeping the inner dry.
And another OT  :-X

A handy assistant when your fly is dripping wet:



Squeegee most of the water off the fly then it will dry much quicker (or pack less sodden). Most times I have no concerns about packing a wet tent if I really need to - the whole tent will get soaked but once it's put up again at the next camp it will dry out in 20 minutes. Even in rain!

Danneaux

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Re: best compression bags .
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2012, 10:21:59 pm »
Quote
A handy assistant when your fly is dripping wet
Yes! I use the "durable Handi-Wipes", a sort of woven paper/cellulose towel that looks nearly identical to yours. <nods, vigorously> It works great for mopping the underside (condensation) as well as outside of the tent fly. I carry a spare for drying off after a dunk in the creek or a formal shower. They wring out great, and dry quickly. A third one serves as a dish-drying towel.

Sadly contrary to my expectations, microfiber towels of any sort don't seem at all absorbent. Great for other tasks...not so much for unwetting stuff.

Best,

Dan. (...who is glad to be part of this agreeable lot)

jags

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Re: best compression bags .
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2012, 10:41:05 pm »
going slowly up hill as one does  ::) i find it hard to steer the sherpa  ,
i have never found it a problem with just  rear pannier and barbag. i really don't believe that  loaded panniers up front will balance the bike if that was the case you would need the exact same weight in each pannier which would be next to impossible to get spot on
i like the steering to be light and precise  exactly the same as a road bike ,
my friends raven sports tour has carbon front fork and he uses only rear panniers and barbag he loves the way the bike handles .i find the sherpa's steering to be like a tank with front panniers .
anyway my tours are mainly on smooth tarmac and 1 week if i'm lucky ,i don't do adventure touring like you lads if i did then yeah i can understand why you need to load up the bike.

Danneaux

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Re: best compression bags .
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2012, 10:44:12 pm »
No worries, jags. Go with what works best for you. A big advantage to have a familiar feel when tired and taxed, especially.

All the best,

Dan. (...who thinks better tired and taxed than tacks in tires!)

il padrone

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Re: best compression bags .
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2012, 11:07:45 pm »
going slowly up hill as one does  ::) i find it hard to steer the sherpa  ,
i have never found it a problem with just  rear pannier and barbag.


It's the downhills where the troubles will show up, especially on loose surfaces. Pedal-induced sway from the heavy rear-mounted load can drive your steering.

i like the steering to be light and precise  exactly the same as a road bike

You don't want this on a fast descent though  :-*

i really don't believe that  loaded panniers up front will balance the bike if that was the case you would need the exact same weight in each pannier which would be next to impossible to get spot on

The relative weight is not overly critical, just getting a good proportion of the weight on the front will stabilise the steering. At times, with front bags loaded with 5-6 days food. I have had front bags at least as heavy as the rear. But the question of balance is not about exact weight but putting a degree of stability into the steering.

my friends raven sports tour has carbon front fork and he uses only rear panniers and barbag he loves the way the bike handles .i find the sherpa's steering to be like a tank with front panniers .

Yes, this is stable (balanced) steering.

anyway my tours are mainly on smooth tarmac and 1 week if i'm lucky ,i don't do adventure touring like you lads if i did then yeah i can understand why you need to load up the bike.

I'm sure you'll be fine on shorter tours when not carrying a load of lots of food, especially if that's what you're used to riding.

However even on sealed roads your load distribution is important. One of the nasty falls I witnesses was a friend on a fast sealed-road descent - rear bags and heavy handlebar bag. He had got into a forward tuck, hunched over the bars. The combination of the load distribution and the position lead to a speed wobble that very quickly became terminal. At 55kmh he stonewalled OTB straight into the tarmac. It was a shocking experience for all of us - we really thought he was dead :(  He had multiple broken bones and severe concussion.

So even on good tarmac you need a reliably stable bike. Twitchy rides are for criterium tracks.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 11:34:56 pm by il padrone »

Danneaux

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Re: best compression bags .
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2012, 08:28:53 am »
Hi All!

I my earlier post, I forgot to mention the care recommended for self-inflating mattresses.

Therm-A-Rest, among others, is now starting to recommend a cloth barrier between sleeper and pad on warm summer nights, when perspiration and body oils can cause a problem. Apparently, direct contact with sweat and oils can cause delamination and separation of the cover from the foam core on self-inflating pads. Exposure to DEET, sunscreen, and chlorine can also cause delamination. See the Thermarest care video here: http://cascadedesigns.com/video2.aspx?link=http://www.youtube.com/embed/dye2bfkNY_w&KeepThis=true&TB_iframe=true&height=325&width=560&title=Therm-a-Rest%20mattress%20care

Some other helpful links:

Sierra Designs on tent care and storage: http://www.sierradesigns.com/t-TentCare.aspx#6
Big Agnes tent, pad, bag care and storage: https://www.bigagnes.com/Home/FAQs
Marmot on down sleeping bag storage: http://marmot.com/faq#11
REI's sleeping bag care, cleaning, and storage: http://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/caring-sleeping-bag.html

Best,

Dan.