Author Topic: Danneaux's Nomad  (Read 70782 times)

Danneaux

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2012, 01:44:52 AM »
Hi All!

A short video of my packing trials in the field near my home:
http://youtu.be/5paMMj3oHo8

Description:
"Thorn Nomad Mk2 with 60kg load climbs and descends 17% slope with ease in Gear 3 (40x17 Rohloff gearing, so 21.8 gear-inches with Schwalbe Dureme 26 x 2.0 tires). Surface was loose gravel, dirt, and dried grass interspersed with large rocks and sun-dried tractor ruts from last Spring's mowing. 16.5 liters of water aboard for desert travel, and several days' food stores".

This video shows just a couple runs up the slope to the field; I spent the better part of an hour trying different load configurations and riding through the field on the bike and having a wonderful time with what I'd consider my maximum load in most cases; usual touring load would be about half that. The thing climbs like a goat, and I am astonished it was no problem to ascend the short, steep slope in Gear 3 (I still had two lower gears available). Traction was no problem with the Duremes, and they provided penty of comfort at Andy Blance's recommended maximum pressures (45/50psi, 3.1/3.4bar F/R); I could well have gone slightly lower with no problems and even greater comfort if desired.

Best,

Dan.

JimK

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2012, 02:26:18 AM »
Ah, that is really nice, to see that bike at work! The video does a nice job of showing off the bike's capabilities.

Do you expect to get it out on any kind of tour this year? When does the snow close the high passes?

Danneaux

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2012, 04:58:04 AM »
Hi Jim! Good to hear from you, as always!

It has been a lot of fun to kit the bike out and test it in various configurations, and I am really surprised (in the most pleasant of ways) at how capable it is in rough conditions, even (especially!) fully-loaded.

I am beginning to wonder if the Rohloff has some torque-multiplication effect -- it just seems as if I am pulling higher low-gears than the comparable numbers in a derailleur bike would indicate.  I know I did that same circuit on Sherpa, and it was a real slog up that little hill to the level of the field -- even in my lowest gear at the time -- 17 or 18 gear-inches, depending on the cassette used. I was doing all this in a much higher gear today. Rohloff needs to up their ad campaign a few notches: "Buy a Rohloff, ride stronger!"

I have passed the window of opportunity for taking a really long multi-month tour (work and other commitments), but very much look forward to some shorter ventures to sort the bike out for next year's Big Tours. No matter how carefully I prepare a bicycle, actually taking it on-tour results in some changes afterwards to make it even better. The field-testing always helps. 

Ideally, I'd like to head south-southeast of town into the Calapooya Mountains, perhaps over to Lookout Point Reservoir, then up into the alpine regions on the slopes of Diamond Peak...past the single-track to Crescent Lake and on to Lake Timponagas via Emigrant Pass, then back. The Coast Range would be wonderful, too. A favorite route there is to go west-northwest to Monroe, then Alsea Falls, and way on up Lobster Valley to Cannibal Mountain, dropping down to Five Rivers and on into Yachats on the Coast via the old Yachats River Road. From there, a good 92-mile day down the coast to Reedsport and in to Vincent Creek Guard Station before climbing the double-summit Wolf Creek Pass back to Crow and then on home to Eugene. It's a lovely ride and despite hunting season, there's a really good chance I'd see deer, Roosevelt elk, and perhaps some bear along the way.

I just love getting out in the woods, and I need to scout a new cross-country approach over the Cascades. I've attached a photo (below) showing one of my camps as I crossed through trackless forest east of Salt Creek and summited at Willamette Pass. It is just so nice to get out on a bike where one wouldn't expect loaded touring bikes to go. There can be a lot of deadfall timber after storms, and this is where I expect the Nomad's Rohloff to really shine. In the camp photo below, I used a derailleur bike with 700x32C tires and had to watch to make sure the rear derailleur didn't suck up a twig or branch that would cause damage to the mech or hanger. The Rohloff's chain is as high as it would be on a Fixie and there's no der cage and hanger, so the danger should be reduced accordingly. The 26x2.0 tires should help also, though I never really had any problems picking my way through such things on road slicks.

Jim, this has been an odd year for weather here'bouts. The bulk of summer was unsually cool, then the hot weather struck for a couple weeks, and now there's an undercurrent of Fall to the winds and breezes and the nights are colder. It has been in the 80sF/28C during the day, but dipping into the very low 40sF/5C at night. I think we're going to have a early Fall; the trees are changing color, and the leaves on some have been falling over the last month. When I eat dinner outside at the little glass-topped table on my back patio, more and more Canada Geese are flying overhead, low and honking. Again, we could have a very nice October; it will depend!  Snows have closed the Old Willamette Pass to traffic as early as Labor Day in past years, though it is usually on or near November 1st ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Route_242 ).

The other highway-based Cascade passes stay open pretty much year-'round thanks to 24-hour plowing, but the plowed roads are too narrow -- no shoulders and heavy truck traffic with frozen hummocks at the edges -- and too strewn with traction sand to safely travel by bike at those times. The wilderness passes are likely to be open till November 1st or so, but there is still some snow in isolated pockets on the passes now.

I can pretty well count on running into patches of snow in mid-summer as well on some of the crossings, but it is usually pretty patchy and not too deep ("rotten snow").  In the last couple photos below, taken several years ago, you can see there's still quite a lot of snow atop Mckenzie Pass and the Lava Beds still remaining about this time of year, so -- yes -- I'll definitely pack the woolies if I go for altitude.

Just hoping things will work out so I can take some several-nights-long tours here before the weather really breaks toward winter.

Fingers crossed!

All the best,

Dan.

Danneaux

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2012, 07:31:49 AM »
Hi All!

Today was a lovely day here in the Willamette Valley, with blue skies, sunshine, and temps of 91F/33C, so I took the Nomad up in to the Coast Range to one of my favorite places -- Alsea Falls -- and then on to the little town of Alsea far below it on the coast side of the mountains -- for a round trip of 111mi/179km. Thanks to the recent spate of hot weather at the end of summer, the Falls were only about 1/4 their wintertime volume; down to a trickle. Speaking of water...I sure go through a lot of it. 4.5 liters for this trip, and getting resupplied at Alsea Falls was a bit tricky. I didn't have my SteriPen, chemical pills, or a stove to treat/boil water from the streams or creeks, and the old crank-pump at the picnic area was chained shut by the rangers in anticipation of freezing weather. I realize they are trying to be foresighted, but Labor day was just this last weekend, and people still like to go into the forest -- hunters, especially, and deer hunting season is nearly upon us. Here in the States, Labor Day marks the de factor end of summer, as kids are due in school almost immediately after. A lot of recreational sites just shut down right after, in anticipation of winter. I must remember to toss in the SteriPen if I am to get water on future rides in the woods.

I had lots of fun scouting new catalog photoshoot and product-testing locations (I start now for contracts to be filled next Spring and sometimes even in Winter), and ended up on a logging spur way above even the former treeline with a fine view of the Valley below. It was pretty hazy, due to a controlled burn-off of grasslands at several area wildlife preserves (I've yet to completely understand it...wouldn't the flames cook the smaller animals?), but much of the smoke blew through and it was nice up on the mountain. The owners of a tree farm in the area greeted me nicely as I exited the gate they were about to enter. They're good to allow visitors as long as they are respectful and I managed to pick up a few pieces of trash I found along the way.

Except for a few chipmunks and ground squirrels, I saw no larger animals this trip. Heard a lot of bird calls, including some unfamiliar to me.

This was a further learning experience with the GoPro Hero HD2 camera and YouTube. I shot some footage as I rode along, and was very disappointed to find selecting "Correct shaky video" should read "smear all detail". Well, live and learn; it appears to be an option not well suited to all video, and this was one that didn't come out crisp like the original. I also learned the onboard, rigid camera mount works fantastically for paved roads and even smooth gravel. It is a disaster off-road. The rigid mount means the vibration of the bike is transferred to video, and it looks like the trees and such are melting in a fashion sure to have pleased Salvador Dali but few others. It looks like I disturbed the space-time continuum and opened a rift to another dimension. It is sort of neat in an art-house way, but I need to switch to the chest mount or helmet mount when going off-road if I am to have any hope of usable video in those conditions.

I have a lot to learn when it comes to shooting good videos! What a fun task ahead...

If you would like to see the videos, here they are:
http://youtu.be/wNK0YYzMdJ0 (Nomad headed for Alsea Falls)
http://youtu.be/oC2qg_381O0 (Nomad at Alsea Falls)

The Rohloff worked like a champ, and the grumbling and gnashing of gears in the low range did not prove bothersome to me. The bike itself handled flawlessly, and I kept my downhill speeds to 42mph/68kph only because the Nomad is new and it seems wise to be a bit cautious until I learn all its nuances. I will have to do something to soften the ride, though, and the solution should be as easy as letting out some air. I had aired the tires F/R to 45/51psi. 3.1/3.5bar in accordance with Andy Blance's recommendation for a "rim-safe" maximum, and this worked beautifully for the fully-loaded bike. Not a single complaint from me. However, it is simply "too much" for the relatively light loads I carried today, and it just beat me up -- especially on the off-road stretches. Next time, I'll drop the pressures for unladen riding down to 45/40psi and see how it goes; should be much better. The Schwalbe Duremes worked very nicely as a "do-it-all" tire; no complaints there, either, except I need to adjust air pressure downward. I also need to get the Grab-On closed-cell foam padding on the handlebars, compression-wrapped and covered with padded tape. I am just waiting to confirm the position of the brake levers and to install the interrupter/cross-top brake levers. Once all that is done, on goes the padding. I agree with Stutho (Stuart), increasing the 'bar diameter alone will help a lot with comfort.

So, all in all, a wonderful day out on the bike, and a chance to get a lot of climbing in on 12-18% grades, and I worked in about 5mi/8km of gravel as well. Everything worked terrifically well!

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 09:14:45 AM by Danneaux »

Danneaux

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2012, 07:35:51 AM »
A few more from today's ride to Alsea Falls...

Best,

Dan.

Relayer

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2012, 08:14:26 AM »
Great pictures Dan.

Beautiful weather, beautiful scenery, beautiful bike ... yes, looks like a wonderful day out. 

Thanks for sharing.
Jim

triaesthete

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2012, 09:30:07 AM »
Hi Dan
great pictures. I'm glad it's all working out this time.
What size bar bag is it you have, and are the little outer pockets any use?
Best wishes
Ian

jags

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2012, 12:19:54 PM »
Thanks for sharing Dan, 42mph huh and you were taking it easy  :-\

the Nomad sure looks like a class act. ;)

Danneaux

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2012, 07:11:30 PM »
Hi All!

Thanks for the kind words on the still photos, I sure need to get up to speed on video, but I'll get there!

Yes, that was a terrific day for riding, and I keep thinking about it today...a sure sign of a fun trip. THis has been a crazy year for weather, but it will likely turn more Fall-like before long, so I just couldn't let this one go by.

Ian, you asked...
Quote
What size bar bag is it you have, and are the little outer pockets any use?

Good questions! It is an Ortlieb Ultimate V "Plus" (Cordura fabric), in size "Large". And yes, the little pockets have proven surprisingly useful, despite some initial doubts on my part.

If you wish more detail, read on.

First, the bag...
I was initially put off by the idea of a "Large" mostly out of concern it would be too bulky, too heavy, or I'd overpack it. Even better, the bag was sitting dusty and unloved and had a nice sale price far less than the Medium because so many buyers had avoided it for those same reasons. As it happens, none of those concerns proved valid for me, and I'm really glad I went this route. A quick look at the Ortlieb specs shows the Large and Medium are the same height and width, and the weight is only 20g/.7oz more. The real difference is on fore/aft dimensions, where the Large is 3cm/1.18in larger. Even this is not much bigger, but when combined with the height and width, results in an extra 1.5l of volume, and this makes a big difference for my use. This way, I have the room for light but bulky stuff when I need it. Sometimes on day rides, I'll fill the whole bag with only a lightweight fleece pulover; nice to have on cold days, but doesn't store very small. This larger HB bag is ideal for that.

The Ultimate V Large bag only comes in all-black, but there's enough black on the red-and-black Ortlieb panniers for it to blend in nicely. It also matches my $15 (another sale) Nashbar rack-top pack, so when I'm out on day rides, it looks like I planned it that way.  ;) I had initially wanted all my bags to be black, but that plan came to an end when the red-and-black panniers went on-sale. The front ones retailed for USD$225 at REI when I got them, but thanks to a 20% off sale, a gift card for signing up for their no-fee credit card, and my dividend, they cost only USD$72. The USD$248 rear Ortlieb BikePacker Plus panniers were reduced to USD$189, so I took the plunge and red-and-black it was.

I keep the weight of my HB bag to 5.5-6lb, 2.5-2.7kg maximum, and use it mainly for things I wish to reach quickly or things that are bulky but light. The bag has my papers, money, credit cards and other documents when actually on-tour -- lock keys, too -- so it goes with me when I leave the bike. It also has various small items like my Swiss Army knife, bug spray, lip balm, snacks, small First Aid Kit (a larger one rides in the panniers for use on Big Tours far away from any help), pen, thyroid and allergy meds, my tiny MP3 player and multiband radio, and my charging adapters (spare batteries are elsewhere, except for one spare each for the cameras so I can reach them for a quick swap without rooting through the panniers). Everything goes in little zip-top plastic bags so I can keep like items together and see what's inside. If my dentist is reading this...Nadia, the toothbrush and paste also live here so I can get to them after meals.

My wind-jacket goes in one lightweight breathable nylon Avocet saddle bag (a promo item from years ago), and my hats (lightweight fleece balaclava, ball cap, and sun hat) go in another Avocet bag. These are captive to the key ring and ride atop the contents, so I can just flip them into the open lid if I need to quickly reach something, yet won't lose them to an errant breeze (in the desert, afternoon winds of 39-45mph/63-72kph are common, and chasing a valued item across playa, hoping it will catch on sagebrush is not a Fun Pursuit. It only needed to happen once for me to get with the plan and make such things captive). I store my nylon-faced wool jersey and my fleece jacket in two more of these bags under the cap-tops of my front bags, so I can reach/stow them quickly in changing conditions. The cords are made captive in the bag-cap latches so they can't work out with vibration when off-road...everything that is lashed to the bike is "safety-wired" similarly so it won't be truly lost if it works free of its moorings.

Just as with the Ortlieb panniers, the internal envelope pockets work so much better if they are laid atop the load, instead of being trapped against the sidewall/stiffener making them hard to access. Having the pocket on top of the contents keeps the contents in place in wind, too, yet instantly accessible when needed.

As for the little outside pockets...
When I first saw them, I actually chuckled -- they were so small, and made of mesh (though with a waterproof cap-top). Still, I have found them to be incredibly handy once I found the proper contents to store there. The left side holds my eye drops and waterproof LED headlamp, so I can find them even in the dark when on the bike or in the tent; rain harms neither. The head-band of the light is wrapped around the light and secured with a ladies' nylon-covered hairband; I use those to compress and secure lots of things. The right-side pocket holds a couple small packets of paper tissues, my do-all product on the road. It serves for dryng a drippy nose, toilet tissue, dinner napkin, fire tinder, and will help staunch blood flow from a skinned knee. I usually tear the sheets in half so they last longer and they stay absolutely dry in their little resealable plastic pockets under the waterproof pocket lid -- there's a whole progression or food-chain for their use, starting as dinner napkin then nose-wipe, and finally toilet paper to be buried. When carried supplies can't be replenished and limited stores need to last a month or more, it pays to stretch each use as far as possible before discarding.

Admittedly, that's not much in those pockets, but they have proven handy nonetheless.

Whew. Short question, long answer!

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 07:31:59 PM by Danneaux »

triaesthete

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2012, 08:14:30 PM »
"Whew. Short question, long answer!"

No less than I have come to expect Dan  :) BUT very useful as I was about to hit the buy button on the 7l classic. Thanks. I must confess I was not being "careful" but I was worried about bulk and the wee pockets looked twee. Like you say 20g and only one increased dimension for 1.5l extra volume looks like good value/gram EVEN to a recovering weight weenie  :o and padded jackets etc are nice to have aboard. BTW do you need the extended mount to give enough clearance round the Rohlof shifter, or is yours high enough for it not to matter?

I'm glad I waited a day for your reply. It will be a big posh one now.

Fighting bicycle anorexia
Ian

Danneaux

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2012, 10:22:49 PM »
Quote
...do you need the extended mount to give enough clearance round the Rohlof shifter, or is yours high enough for it not to matter?

So far, everything fits really well together, providing plenty of clearance for full usability of the handlebars, shifter, and HB bag. I've atached a composite photo that give a little better idea of the clearances involved, Ian. There is plenty of room for my Rohloff shiftera nd the Large HB bag, keeping in mind the shifter is mounted above the handlebars on its own T-bar.

The real key to the setup is getting the HB bag as low as possible by mounting it on a Thorn Accessory T-bar. I'm currently using the 55mm T-bar for that (the measurement is center-to-center) and all is fine. That may change when I install my 'cross-top interrupter levers -- it is possible my fingers may rub on the HB bag, 'cos the levers sit at an angle rather than vertical. If I get interference with them, then I have two options:

1) Fit a 110mm T-bar in place of the 55mm T-bar and figure new sightlines for the compass/bell and bike computer.

...or...

2) Fit the Ortlieb HB bag extender, which would leave all my other clearances and sightlines intact as they are.

I was drawn to using the short T-bar 'cos it moved the HB bag 50mm/2in rearward, and that can't be a bad thing for handling. It also keeps the bag as low as possible, which also aids handling.

A quick tip for when you get your bag...

The perimeter frame is plastic, and works very well. However, an inherent "feature" of the design is the bag *will* sag somewhat when carrying a full load. I did a lot of testing and found if one sets the mount up so the mounting face is parallel to the head tube, then when the bag is full to rated capacity, it will be dead-level. If you set it level to begin with, it will decline downward in front, and to my eye that looks a bit bad, makes map-reading more difficult, and reduces clearance between the bag and a headlight. So, set the mount up so it is parallel to the head tube and all will level out in use at max rating. Also, I found no difference in mounting the bag to the T-bar compared to a regular stem and handlebar. SJS Cycles thoughtfully advises making several wraps of the tensioning cable around the T-bar, but I have not found it necessary in my case. I tried it both ways with a past cable and found this way is actually more secure 'cos it is easier to get the cable up to full, even tension...a task made more difficult if it is wrapped several times (the multiple wraps increase friction, which is why big boats/small ships are tied to dock bollards with multiple turns of rope).

I hope this helps. Yeah, I agonized over the size till I ran the numbers and was surprised as anyone to find the large size is a real bargain weightwise, and isn't really very much more bulky given it has as much extra capacity as a 1.5l waterbottle.

If you need any more photographs or measurements to ease the decisionmaking and subsequent setup, just give a shout, Ian. I hope the new bag works well for you. There's some neat engineering in it, and some nifty little tricks to getting maximum use from the space offered.

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 07:33:05 PM by Danneaux »

triaesthete

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2012, 12:44:04 AM »
Thanks again Dan. Quick work!

Shows the relative size and forward throw nicely. I was contemplating mounting it on the handlebar stem to have it high enough in order to give some windchill/rain  protection for my fingers when riding in a narrow position on the tops.  As the shifter will then be behind, rather than above it, I think I will need the extension mount for winter mitt clearance.

Nice tip about mount angles. I'm sure the inherent frame sag is intentional to give the set up some shock absorption capability and reduce shock loads to the stem. It's nice too how they've used a cable  instead of clamps round the bar as a support method. Not only stronger and less chance of slippage, but also able to accommodate bars (like Thorn drops for GB shifter)where the centre bulge tapers immediately adjacent to the stem. Ortlieb designs always seem to demonstrate lateral thinking.

I'm realising as time goes by that all bike set ups, for me at least, are provisional and always possible to improve in some way....
Plan b will be a low mounting on an accessory bar. If only they gave it a convex front face it could act as an aerodynamic aid as well.

Cheers
Ian

triaesthete

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #42 on: September 16, 2012, 02:07:04 PM »
Hi Dan
big bag bought and fitted. Your tip regarding mounting angles is spot on and saved much set up time. The inherent flex in the bag frame seems to give it a degree of float and reduces jarring over bumps. The cable mount for the bar bracket is amazingly solid.

Interestingly just the standard bag mount gives knuckle clearance in front of  the Berthoud shifter. The bag does sit high enough to protect fingers from windchill as well.

The larger volume is definitely worth having as less "packing" required  for any given load and the forward projection of this bag does not seem excessive. Handling is different (slower) but good, even on tracks and in crosswinds. I might have to try a little more air in the front tyre though as it does seem to change weight distribution noticeably.

Your idea of using the document pouch as an inner lid is sublime. I've had Ortieb panniers for years and never thought of this. Truly a "Doh!" moment.

I'm seeing the Rene Herse type bikes in a new light already.
Thanks for the help
Ian

Danneaux

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2012, 06:25:26 PM »
Hi Ian!

I'm delighted to hear the new HB bag is working for you, and really appreciate the followup. Congratulations! I think it will go far toward keeping your fingers warm as cold weather arrives.

<nods> Those Ortlieb HB bags and panniers are really something; I find myself appreciating mine more and more as time goes by. The HB bag mount in particular...when I first saw mine, my heart kind of sunk...plastic?!? A little plastic box?!? It'll break as soon as I tension the cable! It has worked beyond all expectations and even docks and works well with the available spacer, when need be. That tension cable is brilliant, and every time I find myself grousing that humankind has begun to lose mechanical innovations in favor of electronic, I look at that and smile.

You may (will) find the bag bounces on rough roads due to that same inherent flex and degree of float -- not to worry! The mass-moment is vertical and does not seem to impart any sideways impetus to the handlebars as I worried it might. I do keep the relatively heavier things toward the steerer and down low, but the real purpose of the bag for me has been to carry light-bulky things I want to reach quickly.

You mentioned...
Quote
The larger volume is definitely worth having as less "packing" required  for any given load

I think this is a very important point. For most of the last 30-odd years of touring, I have concentrated on keeping my weight down, of course. I have also spent countless hours trying to minimize bulk so I coud get by with less volume. I came up with all sorts of clever nesting and packing schemes at home and cut my overall bulk by better than 33%. On my 2010 Great Basin Tour, I found I had hit -- no, passed -- the point of diminishing returns. Out There is not Home, and it took more time and effort than it was worth spending to repack everything. By the day, I placed more value on getting packed and off early each morning than I did on the size of the load. It was a bit like when you take a load of clothes out of the dryer -- everything lofted or fluffed when it was no longer compressed and it was tough putting it back...moreso in 70mph wind-driven rain and ice pellets atop Blizzard Gap. Even food storage became problematic. At home, I discarded all packaging and reduced my food to a series of little rolled freezer bags bundled together with nylon-covered elastic hair bands. Guess what? I had uh, forgotten over the winter that whatever food I was likely to find at the little stores I passed would be canned or in bulky, irreducible containers. Oops. Now, I depend on my Ortlieb Bike Packer Plus' rear bags' built-in compression straps to minimize the bags around their load, and they expand nicely when needed as well.

There's something really nice about just tossing a fleece jacket into that Large HB bag rather than trying repeatedly to fold it so it *just* fits in a smaller one.

Freeing that inner document pouch works even better on the panniers. Those pouches are long and can be folded under themselves atop the load so as soon as the bag is opened, you can access the pouches instead of shredding your fingernails trying to get at them next to the stiffener. The effect is three good-sized pockets -- a top, zippered-mesh pocket, and a large one that is divided into two by the fold. Just the place to put a first-aid kit, bug repellent, meds, whatever you'd like to reach quickly without digging. Need to access the main contents? Just flip the pouch up and you're set. Combined with the cap-tops on my "Packer"-series bags, this gives me 4 "pockets" plus the main compartment on each front pannier, and the same on the rear plus the outside compartments Ortlieb provides on its BikePacker Pluses. If you put your whatever in a stuff sack before placing it under the panniers' cap-top, then the lid becomes a fully-realized pocket of good size. Four or five pockets per pannier isn't bad.

Quote
I'm seeing the Rene Herse type bikes in a new light already.

Herse was a true genius whose range of innovations has never been equaled in a single bike manufacturer's product line. Alex Singer came very, very close as did some of the other constructeurs of the day, but Herse was nearly always ahead of them and many of his innovations are in our bicycles today (clamped-on stems, for example).

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 09:56:53 PM by Danneaux »

triaesthete

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Re: Danneaux's Nomad
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2012, 10:48:03 PM »
Hi Dan
"I found I had hit -- no, passed -- the point of diminishing returns. Out There is not Home, and it took more time and effort than it was worth spending to repack"

I know what you mean Dan, I learnt all this on winter motorcycle camping trips across Europe. Although weight and bulk were important (only using 90cc bikes on occasion!) ease of use when tired, cold and having trouble thinking straight was the premium consideration. Ortlieb gear was the best for this as well. I was getting quite good at it after 10 years experience so I see now why you are a mine of advice if you've had 30 years development and experience in bike touring.

Thanks
Ian