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Andy Blance's Nomad Mk2 Load and Packing Recommendations

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Matt2matt2002:
I have a Raven Tour.
Anyone done charts similar to the ones here for the Nomad?
If not, what percentage weight should I knock off?
Matt

Andybg:
Hi Matt

The Tour you have was rated at 40kg to the Nomad's 50kg (this is based on brochure max load carrying)

if you are looking at maxing out on loads I would start with these figures minus 20% but that would only be a rough starting place as all bikes (and all sizes) are likely to handle differently and be most comfortable with a different distribution of weight.

Max load is a very ify subject to quantify as it all depends on how you ride, where you ride, how smoothly you ride and what characteristics you are happy to put up with. I have riden your Tour with 40 plus kg on it and apart from being a bit touchy at the front the bike handled well.

How much weight are you planning on needing for your big tour?

Andy

Danneaux:
Hi Matt!

Perhaps the closest we have is the "sticky" topic originated by Stutho here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1208.0 but it is not as detailed as Andy Blance's direct recommendations based on his own experience with specific weights in specific places.

The current brochure for the new Thorn Raven comes the closest. Remember, the new Raven is an "all-rounder" revision to the line that falls between the old lightweight Raven Sport Tour and the old more load-oriented Raven Tour it replaces. Same frame as the Sherpa Mk3 (except for the drivetrain-related bits), its tubing sizes are keyed to frame sizes for an overall more comfortable ride. The result is a bike that can carry more weight than the old RST (but is a bit less sprightly) and a bit less weight than the old RT (but feels a bit more sprightly). Essentially, two models have been collapsed into one that is more versatile than either was before, but performs a bit less well at the margins of speed vs. carrying capacity. One doesn't give up much at either end and gains versatility in the middle range of use.

The weight chart/load chart appears in the Summer 2013 (new) Raven brochure here: http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornRavenTourBroHiRes.pdf , page 11. You'd certainly be alright following it with your older Raven Tour, I'd think (it would be "too much" to maintain good handling for an RST). It is not as specific as the Nomad load recommendations and packing scheme Andy kindly provided me, but it does divide the weight wrt HB bag, weight on the rear only vs in F/R panniers, and takes frame-mounted water bottles into account.

There is brief mention of weight placement and limits on the old Raven Tour/Raven Sport Tour in the older combined brochures; Summer 2011 is an example: http://web.archive.org/web/20111005124744/http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornRavenTourBroHiRes.pdf , pg. 8, where the difference in carrying capacity of the RST/RT is described. On that page, Andy writes...
--- Quote ---You could load 12kg on the front of the RT and put 28kg on the back and the bike will cope.

You could carry 22kg on the back (with no load on the front) and the bike will also be fine...obviously it won't handle as well as if some weight is also carried at the front but it will feel safe and secure.

The RT is at its absolute best with 5 to 6kg on the front and 15-18kg on back.
--- End quote ---

The key thing to keep in mind, (old) Raven Tour/(new) Raven vs Nomad Mk2 is the Nomad has a more robust, larger-diameter rear triangle (seat- and chainstays) that is longer and a longer wheelbase to keep more of the load within the wheelbase of the bike. To extrapolate to the old Raven Tour, you'd need to adjust loads downward accordingly, but I think the general placement schemes would still apply, keeping in mind the lesser carrying capacity to preserve good handling. The Nomad Mk2 remains the Heavy Lifter of the Thorn product line.

I hope this helps, Matt. One thing I will add that many (including myself) sometimes forget: Remember, "weight" includes the weight of contents and the bags that carry them. For some of Thorn's lighter models, the weight of the bags can be a significant part of the payload. For example, the Mercury is listed in the current brochure ( http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornMercuryHiRes.pdf ), pg. 16, as carrying as much as 11kg on the fork (so long as one chooses fork option #6); a pair of Ortlieb SPort Packer panniers are listed as weighing 1.68kg/pr empty.

Best,

Dan.

Danneaux:

--- Quote ---...all bikes (and all sizes) are likely to handle differently and be most comfortable with a different distribution of weight.
--- End quote ---
That's a terrifically good point, Andy, and one that has long fascinated me.

Even with identical tube sizes, frames will differ in size and geometry and wheelbase, and there's also the matter of rider weight as well, and how it is carried (rider position and preferred back angle). If tube sizes are held constant, the shorter/smaller frame will always be stiffer, as well. I think riding style and even pedal cadence might well make a difference to overall handling of a loaded bicycle. Don't forget tire width, profile, and pressures will play a role also.

Because of this, I don't think any single recommendation will work in all circumstances, but weight ratings are a good starting point and are very useful guidelines for reference.

All the best,

Dan.

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