Author Topic: Short workstand -- recommendation sought  (Read 5214 times)

Andre Jute

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Short workstand -- recommendation sought
« on: July 05, 2012, 10:34:38 pm »
I have a fullsize work stand, of course, but haven't used it for a couple of years. It's simply not appropriate to my everyday bike, a Utopia Kranich crossframe with a Rohloff gearbox, and every other component also selected to be either zero-maintenance or as low as you can get. Almost everything I want or need to do to the bike is conveniently done by parking it on the kerb of the high pavement in front of my town house and standing in the gutter...

Almost everything...  When removing and refitting the wheels, which are both keyed by anti-torque tongues (Rohloff rear, Bafang QSWXK front) and require to have cabling aligned, it would help to raise the wheel in question a few inches off the ground. Ditto for adjusting the brakes, which I need to do when I fit a different width of rim. It quickly gets to be a pain holding up a 23kg bike by the handlebars or the rack with one hand while trying to work with the other hand.

The only stand I've been able to find that is even approximately suitable is the Topeak FlashStand Bike Stand pictured below. It is rated for only 14kg and according to reviews has plastic parts to save weight, which perhaps accounts for why SJS does not stock it.


Photo from http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=7345

Any other suggestions/ideas will be welcome. Ideally I'd like something that can raise either the front or the back wheel to choice.

Andre Jute
Incidental bike mechanic
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 10:38:32 pm by Hobbes »

Danneaux

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Re: Short workstand -- recommendation sought
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2012, 10:45:16 pm »
Andre,

Surprisingly (to me, who remembers when such stands were more common) the Topeak Flash Stand seem to be the most readily available of this sort. If you do decide to go for it, however, beware of the potential for damage, as found by this cyclist: http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/482088/topeak-flashstand-warning

Apparently, the rubber dip-coating on the top hook is not sufficient to protect the bicycle's finish in extended or frequent use, and can cause damage. That would be beyond tragic in the case of your hand-applied coach-lining.

Fuller views and descriptions of it in-use here: http://www.tamiasoutside.com/2009/09/26/flashstand/

Looks pretty iffy in user reviews: http://www.rei.com/product/722562/topeak-flashstand?cm_mmc=$%28partner%29$-_-0-_-0-_-722562&mr:referralID=1f995f15-c6eb-11e1-8e16-001b2166becc

I'll keep looking; something better has to be out there.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2012, 10:48:57 pm by Danneaux »

Andre Jute

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Re: Short workstand -- recommendation sought
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2012, 11:34:50 pm »
As always, you're the firstest with the mostest, Dan. Thank you. That's enough information for me to decide firmly against the Topeak. One of your references mentions the Nashbar Stand By Me stand http://www.tamiasoutside.com/2009/03/26/stan/ which is unfortunately now out of production. I suppose I could have something like that made but it works only on the rear wheel, which is the lesser of my problems (the Rohloff wheel slides in easily in a couple of seconds), and I really want a small stand that works on the front wheel as well, or even only on the front wheel, as the Bafang electrical hub takes quite a bit more alignment and jiggling to get it correctly seated than the Rohloff.

Thanks again.

Andre Jute

Danneaux

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Re: Short workstand -- recommendation sought
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2012, 03:24:50 am »
Andre!

I have found a source for the old "Y" stands I recall from days gone by. They look like......and are available for the minimal sum of USD$14.99 + shipping from http://www.amazon.com/STORAGE-ACTION-STAND-BLACK-BIKE/dp/B0046E41GU

The Nashbar Stand By Me looks familiar, 'cos I have three of them, marketed by Nashbar's parent firm, Performance Bikes and probably made by Delta. Mine use a pivoting coated/dipped tray for the chainstay, but essentially the same function is accomplished with the two coated hooks on the stand available from Amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001P9GZZ4?tag=cheapinusa-20, that looks like......and costs just under USD$20. The very similar Ice Toolz Stand By Me is here: http://www.amazon.com/Ice-Toolz-Stand-Display-Repair/dp/B002NXHQSG My Performance-branded Delta version works very nicely, and I would expect the others to be functionally equivalent, though the finish and execution is not as nice.

Other variations:
http://www.bikebling.com/Aztec-Delta-Matisse-Bike-Floor-Stand-p/aztec-matise-bike%20stand.htm
http://www.bikebling.com/Feedback-Sports-Ultimate-Rakk-Bicycle-Storage-Stan-p/feedback-ultimate-rakk.htm
Minoura make a DS-520 folding version, shown here: http://www.velotique.com/tool-rs.htm Minoura's stuff is always pretty well made, even if the finish is sometimes a bit...functional.

Andre, if the Y-type stand didn't interfere with a bottle mount or frame boss, it might best fit your need for alternately lifting the front or rear wheels (provided you weighted the rear rack to elevate the front wheel; the stand might need to sit on a block of wood or a paving stone to provide the needed elevation for the bike to pivot on it). Watch the hook doesn't come in an unbutted section if you put much weight on it (besides the bike, of course).

Have you considered the rear-axle stands? A very similar type was used to hold '60s-era GP motorcycles upright in the pit garages back in the day. The general type is shown here:
http://www.cyclingdeal.com.au/buy/bicycle-hub-display-floor-rack-bike-repair-stand/YC-117N
Nitto's very nice and expensive (!) version is here: http://www.compasscycle.com/bike_stands_nitto.html

Hope one among these will prove helpful.

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 04:07:55 am by Danneaux »

Andre Jute

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Re: Short workstand -- recommendation sought
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2012, 04:52:14 am »
Thank you so much, Dan. Now that I know what to search for, I've instantly found these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/DRAPER-HEAVY-BICYCLE-WORKSTAND-BK-WS2/dp/B008630Y6I/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1341545103&sr=8-12

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Raleigh-Rear-Maintenance-Stand/dp/B0012Z7FBO/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1341545103&sr=8-13

Every attractively presented, this one:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tacx-Gem-Bicycle-Stand/dp/B005M9DXKS/ref=pd_sim_sbs_sg_18

Pity that they won't raise the front wheel, as the rear wheel is the smaller of my worries. I don't much fancy weighting the rear of the bike to raise the front. Stability will be a worry, denting expensive tubes, and the extra handling might be a strong contributory factor to scratched paint.

Truth is, I can't quite conceive of what a small stand to raise the front wheel without making it impossible to remove the wheel might look like. (No problem envisaging a large stand to hold up the bike by the handlebars.) Yet the purpose of raising the front wheel is definitely to remove the wheel and replace it.

Enjoyed the contemporary compass/GPS thread...

Andre Jute

Danneaux

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Re: Short workstand -- recommendation sought
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2012, 05:54:58 am »
Andre,

I believe my stands are the same as shown under the Draper link you referenced; they look absolutely identical. If they are, indeed, the same, then I can report near-complete satisfaction with them.

The only fly in the ointment comes with the size of the hook opening. I found I needed to use my nylon covered shot-filled hammer to slightly close the upper hook opening so the bike would stand truly upright. Also, I recommend some blue LocTite 242 on the threads for the cradle bolt, as it has a slight tendency to loosen with use over time.

The cradle is adjustable for height with a knob attached to a pointed bolt that engages a hole. Resist the temptation to screw it knuckle-bustingly tight, and it won't distort the upright. Give in, and it is possible. My neighbor kept tightening and tightening his...to the stand's detriment. It just needs to be tight enough so the cradle won't slip downward. It doesn't require much.

The other issue which affected only one bike relates to the hook and cradle coating. It is a little pebbly and very thick and protective on my models. On just one bike -- the '89 Miyata 1000LT, on which the clear coat never "set" in over 20 years of ownership (and would become gummy and soft on hot days) -- the cradle removed the clear coat when I removed the bike after it sat in the stand for awhile. I really don't blame the stand, as it never occurred with any of my other bikes, nor did it so much as scratch, scar, scuff or blemish the paint in any way -- and I'm really, really fussy about such things. I ended up padding the tray with an old sock for the Miyata...and the bike stuck to that, too. Yep, a paint issue, rather than a fault with the stand.

Again, all the above is provided the Draper stand really is identical to mine, as it appears to be in every way, judging by the photo.

Hope this helps. Please let us know which stand you choose!

All the best; always glad to offer suggestions,

Dan.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 06:00:43 am by Danneaux »

NZPeterG

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Re: Short workstand -- recommendation sought
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2012, 08:04:05 am »
I have a Topeak FlashStand Bike Stand which I had in North Africa this year.
I do not like it!
It is too flexy and there is a danger of damaging the frame too..
It live's in a box now. Not to be used again  :(

Pete
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Andre Jute

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Re: Short workstand -- recommendation sought
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2012, 10:07:20 am »
Dan, I'm happy to hear you say the Draper type stand marred the paint of only one bike. I'll report back when I find a stand I want. Pete, I decided against the Flashstand when I discovered its picayune weight rating of 14kg -- my bike will break it on day one -- but I'm happy to hear you say I didn't make a wrong decision there. Clever but under-specced, I suspect.

That leaves something to hold up the front of the bike, a more difficult problem, and a more urgent one as I want to change the Kenda there out for a Big Apple, and possibly a new wheel altogether as I don't expect the Big Apple to work well on the narrow rim into which my electric motor is built, in which case, in the normal way of new equipment, the wheel will be removed and refitted many times.

I am eyeing a pair of Nordic cross-country walking sticks that I've brought into my study. Their shaped hard cork handles are just the right height and shape and diameter to take the velcro and rubber fish blocks that I use for attaching LED torches to the handlebars. My idea, which I haven't tried yet, is to attach the fish block to the handlebars, and the walking sticks, preset to the right height, to the fish blocks, then to lift the bike up by the handlebar and kick the bottom of the walking sticks in a bit to where they stick, so that there's a three point brace between the rear wheel and the two walking stick uprights, holding the front wheel only a couple of inches off the ground.

I made something similar with frame clamps when I wanted to make feet to raise a 16x4ft sheet of hefty ply high enough not only for clearance for my ripsaw but also so that I wouldn't wreck my back bending before applying force. I was amazed at how little angle, especially if opposing, would give one a secure brace.

Andre Jute
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 03:58:37 am by Hobbes »

Danneaux

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Re: Short workstand -- recommendation sought
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2012, 04:53:19 pm »
Hi Andre,

Thinking aloud...

I surely can understand the need to avoid an awkward lift of a heavy bike -- I am reminded of that each time I lift my fully-loaded and water-laden touring bike over a guardrail or cattle guard, the awkward mass attempting to bite me as the front wheel swings around.

At the same time, I'm concerned about the possibility your beautiful bike might fall over during service, causing damage to it, the surroundings, or yourself.

Andre, could you manage a variation on my loaded-tourer front-flat repair? Front flats are far less frequent than rear ones, but I have occasionally had one when touring. Keeping the bags on, I lay the bike on its side, which elevates the front wheel off the ground the thickness of a pannier, leaving plenty of room to reach under and guide the wheel in and out of the dropouts, loosen the dynohub connectors, etc.

No, on reflection, probably not. I recall reading a Rohloff cannot be laid on its side for extended periods else the risk of oil leakage will increase.

Would it be possible to lay your Kranich momentarily on its side -- using, say, a camping pad or gym mat as a pad to prevent any possibility of scratching the finish? -- on the way to inverting it so both wheels would be free and upright and the bike stable on its handlebars and saddle? I myself never, ever invert my bike, and there is the problem of incidental damage to handlebar-mounted accessories as well (mirrors, computer, etc). However, there would be two advantages: 1) At no time would you have to lift the entire bicycle, and 2) the inverted bike would be stable.

You have remarkable ingenuity, Andre, so I know you will yet rig something both useful and reliable. I'm just concerned about reliable security and holding as you remove and refit the front wheel.

Hmm. Perhaps some more innovative thinking is required...

In lieu of greater elevation of the upright bike, might you instead be able to gain clearance by removing and refitting the front wheel with the tire deflated? With the Big Apples, you'd gain considerable clearance, and it wouldn't be a huge bother to refill the tire once in place. I deflate my2.0 Duremes each time I insert or remove a wheel to better clear my v-brakes and ring-lock...
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Andre! I believe I've got it!

Looking at the photos of your bike, it has a lowrider boss midway up each fork, unused now, but just waiting to serve as a jacking/lift point. Remove the bolt in each, and fit a longer one with a short spacer. Now, use your saw to construct a stand similar in concept to the Nitto rear-wheel stand I pictured above, but taller and so it engages the extended lowrider bolts (now lifting pegs) in a notch. A wooden base and two triangular sides, with a notch at each apex should do the job. If you need access at the sides, just cut out the center of the triangles, leaving a wooden perimeter frame in place.

Quick, clean, no possible damage to the bike, and as wide and stable a base as you wish. I believe it would be vertically stable as well, with so much weight hanging below the midpoint of the fork. As for the extended lowrider bolts and spacers that form the mounting pegs...they could be left in or removed as you wished. The process would require no lifting; the stand could be simply tipped at an angle to engage the lowrider pegs, the bike pushed forward, and stepping on the base of the stand would finally jack it into place -- same idea as a Formula One car's nosecone pit-lift. I've attached a crude sketch below to illustrate the general idea.

Hope this helps,

Dan.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 06:46:31 am by Danneaux »

Andre Jute

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Re: Short workstand -- recommendation sought
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2012, 04:36:17 am »
Ooh, very clever, Dan. I'll look into that, perhaps with bent tube rather than ply, to leave space to work. Those bosses are intended to be weight-bearing. I like elegant multipurpose solutions..

Just for the record, I had my bike upside down while I fitted the electric motor, and noticed no ill effects on the Rohloff box, nor even any oil drips on the floor.

Thanks!

Andre Jute

il padrone

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Re: Short workstand -- recommendation sought
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2012, 12:11:54 pm »
Sorry, but confused re. removing the front wheel - I don't understand what is wrong with simply undoing the QR/axle nuts and lifting you bike's front end by hand  ???

Reverse process to refit. It only takes a moment to correctly align anti-torque tongues. I'd have more hassle with trying to lift a wheel into the fork dropouts on a raised frame, especially with a heavier electric motor wheel.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2012, 12:16:50 pm by il padrone »

Andre Jute

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Re: Short workstand -- recommendation sought
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2012, 11:41:17 pm »
Since I ride on armoured tyres on relatively good roads, I'm not likely to have a puncture and my wheels don't come out often. The rear wheel is likely to stay in there for another 30 months, at least.

But Im about to embark on a series of improvements and tests interrupted in May of last year when I had heart surgery. These involve changing the front tyre of the wheel currently on my bike, building a new wheel (perhaps using the bike as a stand) with the current motor, perhaps building another wheel with a BPM motor (more torque). All of this will require multiple fittings and refittings.

My bike, trimmed to be merely civilised, weighs something over 16kg. But all the electrics, battery, control electronics, etc, are mounted at the front or with forward bias. The front of the bike, even when I was fit, wasn't a one-hand pickup job. Now it is impossible even for a quick change, never mind holding it up for minutes at a time while trying to fiddle with my other hand making adjustments.

In addition, my fork has custom dropouts/lawyer's lips that are real tight to spec, and the QSWXK hub axle is built to such a meticulous spec that between the two it is a very tight fit indeed. That's not the end of the story. The torque tongue is pretty narrow and fits to the bottom of the dropout, so is difficult enough to position right, and of course every inch of height helps in inspection. It is not one of those jobs where you roll the dropout openings on the axle/QR spindle until it drops in. You have to position the axle right to start with. There are no quick releases on my bike -- why should there be on a near-zero maintenance bike? -- only nutted fasteners.

Almost any of these reasons by itself is sufficient to put the bike on a stand or, better still, to turn it upside down (that's another one likely to put me back in hospital!), which is what I did when I initially fitted the electric wheel, and just as well because it took a good deal of time to get the axle seated correctly in the dropout. Photographs at http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGbuildingpedelec3.html

Andre Jute