Author Topic: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?  (Read 14525 times)

jags

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2012, 05:35:13 pm »
you must be jokeing Ian if i'm suffering i get off,  those days are long gone .mind you i did suffer on my spin today  ;D but not enough to walk ;).
i don't see the bike or cycling as a freedom or independence thing it's just getting out there enjoying whatever the cycle brings  on the day,be it bad or good weather the company  or even how well your going.i love bikes but i don't think the perfect bike has been invented yet coming close but still not there imho.
you know what bug's me , its the cloths right pain in the ass getting all that gear on and then if your caught short man your in troble. someone should invent casual clothing that works  great for cycling..
yeah cycling can bring the best and the worst out of people.
anyway i'm off topic if i was ever on it  ;D ;D

Danneaux

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2012, 06:52:07 pm »
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if your caught short man your in troble
...and if you get caught short in bib shorts, you're really in trouble!  :D

Best,

Dan. (who now wears the straps *over* his jersey to avoid a complete disrobing during each "pause naturelle")

Danneaux

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2012, 07:23:22 pm »
Back on-track after a little humor...
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Does any body else here need to suffer on the bike to feel they are overcoming adversity and gain self esteem? This always seemed to me to be the motivational root of many outdoor pursuits.
No, not for me, but it's a question worth exploring. I'll have a crack at it.

What a fascinating question, Ian! Those so motivated are far from alone. I think this is exactly the reason why many people engage in sports and outdoors pursuits. I live on a feeder route to the riverside bike paths that start a block away from my home, and this certainly seems to motivate many of the runners who steam by. Many have faces portraying pure agony and gaits to match, yet they come home and talk about how "good" they feel...and go out and do it again the next day. A neighbor called out a greeting as he ran by yesterday and said, "Gotta do it! Helps with the guilt!" ?!?  Huh? Huh. He must have Issues; sounds like he's running to expiate his sins. I know he frequently complains he's "old", whatever that means, and he's adopted or developed a persona to go with it. I try to steer clear.

Many formal (and informal) pilgrimages seem to run on this principle, at least in part. I've read many accounts of The Way -- the old pilgrimage route to Santiago de Compostela. In the case of pilgrimages, physical suffering drops the barriers that help us avoid or prevent us from engaging our inner selves. By doing so, they allow for insights to be gained and work to be done that couldn't take place otherwise. Looked at that way, I think nearly any difficult or taxing pursuit can be viewed as a pilgrimage or opportunity for personal growth at a pretty core level. It would be no surprise if self-esteem grew as a result. I'd like to ride the Santiago route myself as a friend did last year, but mostly as a tour. I already use and value bicycle touring as a vehicle to commune with myself and for spiritual growth and communion away from the "noise and static" that seems to be part and parcel of daily life in a more developed and complicated artificial setting. As mentioned earlier, it is a way to re-create myself and fill myself back up as tensions and stress are released.

I'm fortunate that, while at uni, I fell into the mileage-distance trap and clearly saw the suboptimal returns. It was a good lesson and a good time for it. When I gave up riding-for-distance as an end in itself...it became less hard, and I rode farther, better, gaining by letting go. There's a lesson in there. I'm doing things now and with far greater ease at 52 than I ever did at 19-29. Part of it is from years of "training" ("training"? for what? I just ride my bike), though I'd call it experience or time in the saddle. I've so thoroughly integrated all the little tricks and cheats, I don't have to think about them anymore: Drink before I'm thirsty, eat before I'm hungry, shift before I have to, keep the cadence high and easy and pedal round circles. Take breaks -- on or off the bike -- and let the hills come to you. Velocio (Paul de Vivie, http://cycling.ahands.org/bicycling/velocio.html ) knew what he was talking about.

Going up steep hills (as yesterday, with Sherpa fully loaded) I sometimes wonder at how a pursuit I love so much can at times be so terribly hard. Then, I reach the summit, stop, and feel a glow of satisfaction as I sit in my little chair and truly appreciate the moment. In this way, sport(s) or outdoors pursuits are built around a motivational reward structure by their very uh, nature (sorry). Put out effort => Gain satisfaction. Effort is keyed directly to Result, Investment to Outcome. There's a straight path to the bennies, and when you add in the effects of naturally-released endorphins and increasing fitness, it can be hard to tease out the real motivational elements of the pain-reward-ego-lather-rinse-repeat cycle. Engaging in such pursuits can be its own reward, and that's often enough. You see it in academia. It's not too far off what motivates people in the business world, particularly those with independent ventures. Y'really want to see an example? Look at the super-volunteer. Sure, their efforts benefit others, but they're gaining a lot themselves or they wouldn't do it. Athletes run a long ways on the built-in reward structure, but at a certain point it becomes a chicken-and-egg question. Does one engage in (whatever) because you love it and all that surrounds the pursuit, or does one engage because it is a means to an end? Journey, or reward? Are you motivated by the pursuit, or what arises from it? There's probably as many reasons and motivators as there are people. Each reason must be valid to a degree or it wouldn't happen. It is natural for self-esteem to soar when adversity is overcome. If one doesn't have adversity in their lives, then sport or a goal is a way to create it. Very rarely does one achieve a desired outcome without investing at least some effort.

I have seen that a lot last week and this here in Eugene, where the Olympic Trials are once again taking place. The agony and the ecstasy, and who is to say which or what motivates the other?

In my case, health has been a core motivator throughout. I spent a good part of my life in sustained physical pain. I grew from, with, and through that, and don't need or want more for growth's sake! As for fulfillment and self-esteem, that now grows and sustains from within and from a spiritual source. Aside from cycling-related things, I get my bennies from community service in one form or another, and am a primary caregiver to two people in ill health. Three years of suicide-prevention training in a past job shaped my outlook and character a bit, too. Much if not most of what we worry ourselves sick over isn't worth it and I see that clearly when I get Away. I'm an eternal optimist, temporary cynic, recovering perfectionist, and growth addict. Mostly, I'm...me.

I've had enough of suffering, so my motivation is a desire to leave a state of pain for something "other" and "better". There's real joy when I engage in things that were sometimes denied me by circumstance. I started riding for physical rehab from knee injuries. That worked and I found something More. My pain response is different now, too. After my healing, I no longer suffer from lactic acid as I once did, or muscle aches. When I stop, it is mostly because I have depleted my reserves and have to recharge. I do get tired!

But...
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bike to feel they are overcoming adversity and gain self esteem?
Nah. For me, that happened in another venue called Life. As for the bike, I just like being out on it.

My two cents' worth and another data point.

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 08:24:24 pm by Danneaux »

Danneaux

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2012, 07:32:10 pm »
And...apropos this topic and thread, take a look at the attached, reposted by SJS Cycles on their Facebook page (Source: Atlanta Bike Coalition).

Most levels of the Needs Hierarchy are addressed in one graphic or another in this poster devoted to the benefits of cycling.

Best,

Dan.

JimK

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2012, 11:33:22 pm »
Velocio knew what he was talking about.

Ah, thanks for that link, Dan! A delightful new inspiration for me!

I am fascinated by the mutual relationship between discipline and freedom. Superficially they seem like opposites. But really the only way to create a meaningful life is through cultivation, work, struggle. To play beautiful spontaneous music requires countless hours of strict practice, arpeggios, scales, etc.

Ray DaBoll was a great calligrapher, one of whose masterpieces was a broadsheet exclaiming "Calligraphy: Disciplined Freedom is the Essence of It."

Sun Ra was a ground breaking jazz musician for whom a highly disciplined orchestra made possible the materialization of his visions.

Yoga is an ancient discipline of body, breath, and mind, leading to the ultimate human freedom.

It's an interesting puzzle. Many highly accomplished individuals have not really achieved any very rich freedom through all their hard work. Success often comes with a kind of rigid pride... it can make a palace into a prison. But the highest folks seem to be able to walk right out of their fabulous palaces to dance and sing in the village marketplace. Richard Feynman comes to mind as a wonderful example, brilliant and down-to-earth.

jimmer

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2012, 11:39:05 pm »
Dear All,

My needs as a cyclist are ...

... to be fitter ...

... good lungs, for breathin' & shoutin' ...

... good legs, for shavin' & spinnin' ...

... less invisibility  to some drivers of motor vehicles ...

... more invisiblility to others ...

... & dogs ...

... fewer, shallower, potholes in the Tarmac around here ...

... to be permitted to ride footpaths as well as bridle ways ...

... a bigger shed ...

... more space on trains & buses ...

... & the road ...

... a bike shed at work ...

... the scalp of the scally who lifted the ride of my young neighbour, who up until yesterday showed promise as a bit of a Danny McCaskill.

Not an exhaustive list, just some of the things that would make me smile a bit more broadly and grimace a little less fiercely as I trundle through Brum.

Yours, James

« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 06:53:23 am by jimmer »
 

triaesthete

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2012, 01:24:32 am »

The hive is humming: humorous, poetic, diverse, analytical, informative. Please keep the ideas and links flowing. The different perspectives are enlightening.

Going on from Velocio I found this challenging article in two parts on the Audax uk website

http://issuu.com/audax-uk/docs/2011_may_arrivee/39     http://issuu.com/audax-uk/docs/arrivee_113/49

I think the suffering question could be looked at two ways: absence of comfort or presence of pain.  Spartan or masochist. Maybe it's a spectrum we're on and you fall off one end into a car and the other into extreme sports.

Do we have here a crown of Thorns?

Happy thinking
Ian


Danneaux

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2012, 01:27:26 am »
:D
Brilliant topic, responses, and summary, Ian. My, you posted a corker with this one; well done indeed!

Best,

Dan.

malcon

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2012, 12:55:38 pm »
As an older cyclist I looked at how my cycling needs have changed over the years.
TRANSPORT - My first bike extended my geographical range of exploration.
This led to transport to play football in a local league around the environs of Cardiff.
MONEY -  a grocery round on a bike with a small front wheel and a huge basket. The basket had been changed for a cardboard box because it would hold more, indeed without my weight on the saddle it would stand on end when crammed with orders. I still hate pop bottles.
TRANSPORT - On starting work my bike got me there, an old Hercules with simplex gears. One night I managed to hit two cars without their help.  On what is now the main road into Cardiff from the motorway, thankfully then more or less traffic free, head down rode straight into the back of a parked car and  landed unhurt on the roof. Later that night gazing down the line of the forks to see if i got them straight I hit another.
ECONOMICS - Attending University as a mature student with family responsibilities to bring about a major career change, I took the car off the road and bought a bike. This worked well until riding with my son to his piano lesson he put his foot into his front wheel and we ended up in casualty. thankfully no lasting effect.
PROVISIONING - For many years my wife and I sailed small boats around the west country coast.   
Buying paraffin for our anchor light meant an often lengthy  incursion inland. I hit on the idea of two folding bikes we could carry on board and two Bromptons were purchased. The first use was a landing on the beach at St Mawes followed by a pleasant ride. On returning to the beach the wind had changed and the surf risen. It took two trips in the dinghy, one for the bikes and a return for the somewhat displeased wife.
LEISURE - Approaching retirement and with my wife's increasing sea sickness we sold the boat and I bought a new bike a Thorn XTC. slowly at first, my mileage gradually increased as true to N+1 did the number of bikes.
OBSESSION - My wife now insists I am obsessed with cycling. I follow the tours, classics, indeed most televised cycling and aim to ride at least 100 miles a week. I am an avid forum reader if a minimal poster. My stable now includes, the XTC, Trek Madone, Kona Kula Gold, Bob Jackson and a Birdy folder.
ENJOYMENT - Cycling means I thoroughly enjoy my retirement. I ride mainly around the Somerset levels in beautiful countryside with an abundance of wild life and as payment  do the occasional hill even cheddar Gorge when my conscience demands.

triaesthete

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2012, 09:50:17 pm »
Hi Malcon
thanks for posting. I'm sure many here would benfit from the experiences of others like yourself.

Your post made me think that many of us are circumstantial cyclists. That is to say we have an ongoing interest in cycling and our spiritual and temporal cycling requirements vary and fluctuate as our lives pass by. More realist than fundamentalist perhaps and maybe better for it. Enjoying what you can do with what you have today. (see Andres earlier post) Perhaps this is cycling Zen and JimK could advise?

Best wishes
Ian

JimK

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2012, 01:04:18 am »
cycling Zen

The further I pursue my researches, the vaster my ignorance appears! Look at this fellow with his rice sacks (third image):

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=1&page_id=64883&v=Bm
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 04:23:37 am by JimK »

triaesthete

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2012, 05:06:33 pm »
Hi Jim
I knew you'd have an angle. Truly a "go with what you've got" sort of guy. Puts "needs" for touring into perspective!  For those that really have almost nothing there is the chikudu hand carved bicycle  http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=53556
Best wishes
Ian

triaesthete

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2012, 12:45:11 am »

"“What a man can be, he must be.” This forms the basis of the perceived need for self-actualization. This level of need pertains to what a person's full potential is and realizing that potential."

And what Dan needed to be was a Rohloff owner.

Ian


geocycle

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2012, 02:54:41 am »
I concur with much above. I love Places, and for me places are different when viewed from the seat of a bike. The journey is the object and the bike the means of achieving that aim. 

I'm currently in San Francisco and saw a great tee shirt "light bikes and light beer are for wussies!" which reminded my of Andre and this forum.
 

Andre Jute

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2012, 02:03:19 pm »
I only wish I could cycle in San Francisco in the summer. All those girls. But— All those hills, too.