Author Topic: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?  (Read 14548 times)

triaesthete

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 Hello all
after reading  "Sun CR18 rims...if I decide to go weight weenie, what could I get?" (Jawine), it struck me that "I was like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me." (Isaac Newton).

Is anyone game to discuss the psychological and philosophical roots of our practical cycling needs and choices.  I thought a cyclist's heirarchy of needs (with pyramidal hill) might be a starting point.  (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs for the basic concept I'm plagiarising).

I'm not sure where this might go (unless Dan in his moderator role puts it in Muppet threads  ;D) , but I'd like to go beyond engineering philosophies and marketing psychology and into the hive-mind. Are you just pedalling through the countryside or up the side of an intellectual Alp?

Laugh/contribute/avoid?
Ian





Andre Jute

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2012, 12:55:04 am »
The first thing a cyclist needs is another bike. This isn't a replacement bike, this is an additional bike, of course better, and outfitted more expensively, than the bikes he already owns. That is the fundamental need of every cyclist. Any cyclist who tries to deny it requires counselling. -- Andre Jute

Danneaux

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2012, 03:19:31 am »
Quote
I'm not sure where this might go (unless Dan in his moderator role puts it in Muppet threads...
Hi Ian!

I think you've posted and proposed a wonderful topic, and I hope it grows legs. Let's see where it grows (I very much like how you left it open for Bigger Things and incorporated Maslow also); if it gets way out there away from cycling, then it can be relocated in future.

I'll come back and weigh in with some thoughts after I've had time to ponder awhile. It's pretty open, and I can't wait to see what others have to say.

Our esteemed Mr. Jute has made a contribution hard to match!

All the best,

Dan. (who is, as you read this, considering another bike for the stable...only to avoid the need for counseling, you understand)

il padrone

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2012, 03:29:55 am »
Right now I need a better stable to put all the bikes in  :-\

JimK

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2012, 04:38:04 am »
An unstructured list of goals is one way into this. Really nobody *needs* bicycles or bicycling in any absolute way. But a bicycle can be a great way to fulfill many different real needs.

Transportation. To go to the market, to visit friends, to go to school, etc. Usually there are other ways to get around and even more reasons why a bike is preferable to the alternatives or maybe works well in combination with alternatives.

Biking is inexpensive transportation, it is low carbon transportation, it is great for dense traffic or for tricky terrain, it is faster than walking, it can make carrying 50 or 100 pounds quite easy or anyway easier than e.g. a backpack or pushcart.

Bicycling is a great way to get strong, to develop leg muscles and cardio-vascular fitness, and to burn some calories.

Bicycling in the short term can be a way to get strong enough to be able to bicycle for other reasons in the longer term, e.g. for transportation. If I want to ride to visit my friend who lives 300 miles away, first I need to get strong enough to make a 300 mile journey, and riding my bike a lot is a great way to get that strong.

Biking is a great way to hang out with friends, if you are lucky enough to have bike riding friends nearby.

Biking is a great way to explore the terrain, to get to know the roads and the towns and the fields and the streams.

Biking is a great way to get away from the hassles of business etc.

Yeah biking is a fun way to play with some really cool equipment - the bikes themselves and all the accessories but also tools. Fixing and tuning can be as much fun as riding. Looking at catalogs and spec sheets. It's a whole world of technology to explore and get lost in!

Danneaux

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2012, 06:14:13 am »
Hi All!

Okay, I'll have a crack at it...

For me, cycling is passion, pilgrimage, and recreation in its root form, re-creation.

As passion, it is also a lifestyle, a hobby/exercise for mind and body, and a core pursuit.

As pilgrimage, it provides a means for spiritual fulfillment, a vehicle for seeing my inner self and my relationship to a higher power, and to commune with same.

As recreation, it is the means by which I can re-create myself and fill myself back up again when emptied by the stresses of my everyday life. A zenlike state is created for me by cycling, where I gain by letting go.

Looked at in this way, the pursuit of cycling fills some needs at most levels of Maslow's Needs Hierarchy for me and is a common thread through my life's daily interests -- travel, associations, fitness, reading, planning, doing. What started as a means for recovery from accidental injury has evolved over the last 35 years to become a very important part of my life and something I am grateful for and appreciate. When I cannot engage in cycling, I feel unfulfilled at some core levels because those needs are ether unmet, or fail to be met in a familiar and comfortable way that is as enjoyable. It might be fair to say I really do need a bicycle! I walk about five miles daily, but that is my practical limit, making it impractical to take the longer trips I prefer. I know I don't achieve the same level of enjoyment and satisfaction from walking, and for various reasons I don't run.

Quite apart from the above, the bicycle is a tool and partnership between my effort and a desired goal, with the journey from one to another being as satisfying as the end result. I cannot take these journeys without the bicycle, and the bicycle cannot fulfill its purpose without me. All in all, a pretty remarkable feat for a machine that cannot even stand up by itself!

Best,

Dan.

Relayer

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2012, 08:31:49 am »
Hmmmm .. I'm not sure I could actually decide what my ultimate cycling needs/wants are, if they are achievable, and if I can relate this to psychology, but here goes with my personal perspective if that can contribute to a psycholigcal debate?

In recent years my cycling has been purely for recreational purposes, it allows me to commune with nature and admire beautiful scenery, especially from the tops of hills.  Not exactly 40 days and nights in the wilderness like Dan, but a day out at a time suffices for me.  I could achieve this by hillwalking or even by driving a car, but by cycling I can cover much more distance and therefore see much more than by walking, and I can see/hear/smell so much more than I would from within a car.  This communing with nature gives me an anormous feeling of wealth, not monetary wealth, but I feel I have something precious that so few others have.

I have mostly achieved this using touring bikes with a saddle bag loaded with enough to keep me going for a day out, generally wearing specialist clothing most suitable for a day in the saddle i.e. padded shorts, stiff soled shoes with SPD cleats, padded mitts, and breathable/waterproof shell.  I suppose these are all things I need for the purpose of getting out into the countryside by bike.

In order to enjoy these days out cycling I have to maintain a certain level of fitness/stamina to enable trips of anything from 40 miles up to 100 miles, so therefore I sometimes feel compelled to motivate myself to get myself kitted up and get out on my bike for the purpose of "training" which can be difficult for me.  (Note: I am not all that fit, but cannot allow myself to become totally unfit!)  This need to maintain a minimum level of cycling form leads me to ponder the benefits of utility cycling as a means to achieve this end, everyday errands such as JimK describes ... but I think that would mean getting another bike!  

This is where the wisdom of our esteemed Andre Jute comes in, I envy him in that he can simply put on his town shoes, his hat and his coat, step onto his Utopia and set off in sartorial elegance.  He can get on his bike without the hassle of changing into padded shorts, SPD shoes etc etc and go about his business without looking something like an alien in lycra to the folks in town.  This type of cycling I feel would be a perfectly purposeful way of maintaining my cycling habit between excursions into the countryside with all the benefits of accomplishing socialising, shopping, errands etc at the same time - and achievable at the drop of a hat!   (The learning curve in order to develop such elaborate cycle security measures would be a bit off-putting to me though.)

So, I have identified a potential desire for a town bike, with fat tyres, platform pedals, mudguards, Rohloff (of course!), chain guard or belt drive, lighting, luggage carrying capability, and so on.  But then again, what about a folder? That would enable me to combine utility cycling with mechanised transport for ventures further afield, and without the need to leave it unattended and therefore security!  Or what about trying to get Mrs Relayer on the back of a tandem?  LOL  And so it goes on ..   ::)

I love cycling, but I feel there is still an ocean of truth out there waiting for me, I don't think it's a hierarchy but there are gaps to fill in; and I definitely need more bikes, and storage for same, to get to cycling utopia   ;)

P.S. The bottom line is economic i.e. "limited means and unlimited wants".
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 10:30:39 am by Relayer »

Andre Jute

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2012, 02:53:14 pm »
I gave up the car and took up cycling literally to stay alive. My profession, as a writer, involves much sitting down for long stretches, and I was putting on weight at a rate that concerned my physician. So I took up bicycling and haven't looked back.

Talking about my ride-in-town-clothes bike:

(The learning curve in order to develop such elaborate cycle security measures would be a bit off-putting to me though.)

No, you're missing the point. Bikes of the class that encourage riding in street clothes, like Dutch city bikes, come with security built in, the same way they come with mudguards, chain guards, a rack, a stand, a hub gearbox, platform pedals, an ergonomic saddle, all fitted as standard. The ring lock is as much part of the irreducible minimum city bike as all the other "comfort" facilities". It works very quickly, much more quickly than a curly cable or a U-lock. It's just that Dan making a meal of his bike security recently which gives you the idea there's something elaborate about it; there isn't.

The novel but very effective Swiss n'lock stem lock (more precisely, steering tube unlock) I now have on my bike I fitted to save me bending over even as far as a ring lock or a U-lock requires. It cost €9 more than I paid for my Abus Granit 54X U-lock. It's about twice the price of a mid price ringlock.

There is nothing elaborate to fitting it. It fits like any stem.

There's no learning curve with using either a ring lock or the n'lock. You turn the key and take it away with you, just like a car.

So, I have identified a potential desire for a town bike, with fat tyres, platform pedals, mudguards, Rohloff (of course!), chain guard or belt drive, lighting, luggage carrying capability, and so on.  But then again, what about a folder? That would enable me to combine utility cycling with mechanised transport for ventures further afield, and without the need to leave it unattended and therefore security!  Or what about trying to get Mrs Relayer on the back of a tandem?  LOL  And so it goes on ..   ::)

The truth is, I ride one bike at a time. The other bikes that I haven't given away or sold are in fact very similar to the Utopia Kranich I ride daily, also fully trimmed Dutch city bikes with hub gearboxes and sporting pretensions. (Utopia is a German custom bike maker, but the frame of the 1936 Locomotief Crossframe Deluxe that they developed for the Kranich is Dutch, and the modern balloon-capable frame is built for them by Van Raam in The Netherlands.) But those spare bikes aren't in the stables out the back or in the garden shed, they're in the loft, three floors up because it is dry and heated with the house.

I have willpower. I consider buying a new bike only once a year. (Well, okay, at most twice a year.) I'll have you know that this is a feat more difficult than eating only one peanut.

That's essentially what I'm doing on the Thorn conference. The Raven Tour (or even maybe the Sport Tour -- I've had good luck with a Trek on which the designer missed the aim of a Dutch city bike by a mile, which has geometry pretty close to making it an ali Thorn Raven Sport Tour, but on the other hand I'm getting on a bit for nervous, nippy bikes) is perpetually on my shortlist. But, in practice even more significantly, Andy Blance is a Calvinist when it comes to specifying components: he always knows the best components that last the longest for the least money; I've never seen him make a fashion victim choice, or fit a boutique part when a common, good-vslue commercial part would do the job better. So I never buy a component without first checking to see if Mr Blance either specifies it or has an opinion on it.

Every year near Christmas I consider what's available and make a shortlist. What has actually ended up on my shortlist for several years now is

-- the Thorn Raven, already mentioned, because it is unlikely that I will ever make any tour longer than a couple of days, and that a credit card tour for sure, as I have no patience with camping and need electricity to charge my comms equipment; the reason I haven't bought a Raven is that I'm an artist and I know I'll wince every time I see welded tubes rather than brazed or lugged ones; http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornRavenTourBroHiRes.pdf

-- a Utopia Phoenix semi-recumbent, more than a little unsuitable to the hills of West Cork, not to mention the steep hill on which I live, but included for the novelty; this one has been on my list since it was the Scooterbike, before Utopia took it over and reengineered it, simply because it is different (I did briefly own a Giant Revive but it went because at the time I was clearing out all my derailleur bikes in favour of hub gearboxes; http://www.google.com/search?q=Giant+Revive&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvnsfd&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=lcvlT_3MK5SChQeV8c3CCQ&ved=0CFgQsAQ ); I haven't bought a Phoenix either because it would be a silly bike in my surroundings, and it is WELDED; http://www.utopia-fahrrad.de/Fahrrad_Html/Kapitel_Html/84_Phoenix_107.html

-- a Utopia Kranich, in sunflower yellow or mellon yellow; http://www.utopia-fahrrad.de/Fahrrad_Html/Kapitel_Html/80_Kranich_103.html

Duh. I already have a Utopia Kranich, in green with gold coach lines. Mine has the perfect spec for me (very progressive rim hydraulics instead of disc brakes, Rohloff, fattest possible Big Apples, all components triple-tested and mainly German). There is no way to justify a second one, merely in a different colour.

-- I used to have the Pedersen on my shortlist but the Kranich was specifically chosen for its low stepover, and the one thing that distinguishes the Pedersen is the highest standover of any current bike; I'm not sure it will be practical in my everyday use; http://www.pedersen.info/en/Pedersen_en/Models.html

I love cycling, but I feel there is still an ocean of truth out there waiting for me, I don't think it's a hierarchy but there are gaps to fill in; and I definitely need more bikes, and storage for same, to get to cycling utopia   ;)

There may be "an ocean of truth out there"; there usually is. But I'm not sure that, at the stage of cycling the people on this conference have reached, it can still be mechanical. Once you have a top bike, like a Thorn Raven, widely acknowledged as the best for purpose or best in class or, as in the case of my Kranich, with what's "best" about it not even specified because insiders are supposed to know, there essentially isn't anywhere for you to go, except maybe to some novelty like a recumbent or a folder. Sure, a guy like Dan, who bought the derailleur version of his Thorn fancy, can aspire to a Rohloff, or maybe a Rohloff as well. But we hear from the fellow with the two beautiful identical tandems that they ride the Rohloff one by preference and keep the derailleur-equipped one as a spare; we hear from a regular that he's thinking of selling his Look. In fact, I'm surprised not to hear more confessions like mine, that somebody made a shortlist and found  at or near the top of it... a bike that he already owns!

Still, if making a shortlist keeps you out of the pub...

Andre Jute
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 03:07:29 pm by Hobbes »

Andre Jute

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2012, 03:04:23 pm »
The cyclist's FIRST IMPERATIVE is TO KEEP CYCLING.

I was very happy when I recently had heart surgery to discover that the surgeon was a cyclist who understood that I would measure progress by how soon I was back on the bike.

triaesthete

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2012, 03:49:09 pm »
Hello everyone,
I'm so glad you have joined in on this thread. I was unsure about such an experimental posting but it looks like it will prove worthwhile. Thank you all.

To provoke your thoughts further please have a look at this truly beautiful work of art and humanity on http://www.bicycleportraits.co.za/Index.html  (thanks again to the CTC e newsletter). Click on the portraits to enlarge and you will also see some thoughts of the subjects. Every one of them are worth contemplating.

I would be interested to hear if you have any new thoughts on this topic as a result.

Best wishes to you all
Ian

sg37409

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2012, 05:04:16 pm »
For me, its not about the bike.
It gives me an escape from pretty much all of my adult responsibilities, and I really appreciate my wife's patience in letting me indulge going out to play on the bike. I try to cycle every day: during these wee breaks from real life it helps me maintain some mental equilibrium.
I'm not religious, but I do find (like Dan) a spiritual aspect to the bike, both in terms of my own place in the landscapes, as well as a the simple pleasure of of making progress through them. Maintaining my bikes myself adds to this.

I have several bikes, some really nice ones, and they do add to the pleasure of the ride, (my raven sport tour being the smoothest and most comfortable is the best) but I'd still cycle on a bone-shaker.

JimK

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2012, 04:11:21 am »
I'm not religious, but I do find (like Dan) a spiritual aspect to the bike, both in terms of my own place in the landscapes, as well as a the simple pleasure of of making progress through them. Maintaining my bikes myself adds to this.

Yeah I like this notion of pilgrimage. My sweetheart and I recently watched the movie The Way directed by Emilio Estevez and starring his father Martin Sheen. It's about the Camino Santiago. It seems like a pilgrimage starts as a journey with a sacred destination and gradually turns into a sacred journey.

I just finished the book Distance Cycling by Hughes and Kehlenbach. It's probably too much a beginner book for folks here. It did help me understand training a bit better, how to set up an effective rhythm of longer and shorter rides. But the book also talked quite a bit about mental training and the importance of relaxing and clarifying motivation and how these get more important as the rides get longer.

A long bike ride travels not only through a geography of roads and towns but also takes a person's body through a series of phases and their mind too. A group riding together will evolve along the way too, their interrelationships. What's the special sauce that can orient these movements in a sacred direction? People ride their bikes to raise money for charities, that's one way. Or one could actually be carrying relief supplies, or bringing carpentry tools to rebuild houses and schools after a disaster. Surely charity is a dimension of the sacred.
 

il padrone

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2012, 04:48:17 am »
"The longest journey begins with one step"

I've never been one for heavy trainng routines. My cycling training is mostly riding to and fro work, and also the concept of 'use it or lose it' - just keep riding. On long tours it is often quite feasible to develop greater fitness as you travel, by starting your journey with a few shorter days then building your distances as you go.

I've done a good deal of long distance riding, over many years - Audax 200kms and 300kms in a day, long duration tours (fully-loaded) of 2-9 weeks, and big group tours (organised 15 people to do a 18 day tour of Tasmania last summer). With all of this I've never been too keen on the 'ride for a cause' approach. I reckon the fund-raising focus takes too much away from the pure joy of the expedition. It's great for some, just not on my schedule. I prefer to make suitable donations.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2012, 05:01:29 am by il padrone »

JWestland

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2012, 10:27:00 am »
My two pence...coming from a Netherlands commuting background, with family cycle trips (sometimes much longer than I wanted as a kid...ARE WE THERE YET? poor parents :) where cycling is just like breathing, now commuting in UK (Norn Ire) where having a bike is a talking point. Not so in NL, nobody actually cares it's like saying you well breathe not having one is probably seen as "A bit weird" here it's the other way around in some circles :)

Freedom - The bike is faster than walking, but you don't need fuel (just more food for long rides), parking space (a lamppost will do) and it rarely lets you down (and if it does, generally you can fix it yourself)

Independence - As a kid it's great to get your first bike and explore the area

Fitness - As a poster said: "Let us have a moment of silence for all those who drive to the gym to cycle on a stationary bike"

Mental health - This sounds pretty faffy, I know, but exercise is known to improve this, and there's something relaxing about sniffing up the smells of the city. If you're not behind a bin lorry, that is... And a bike ride clears the head nicely after a day at work.

Achievement - Especially fighting winds, going up hills, trying to break your speed record on a good day, nothing like a bit of a small challenge. And if you don't want one, you lower the gear and slow down. It's up to you.

And since coming to the UK...

Community - There's a small but lively bike community in Belfast, part activism for fighting our corner, and part cycling with nice bikes and going to the pub together for fun.
And of course this forum and the many other bike forums :)

Hobby/curiosity: Gone fixed out of sheer curiosity, and I like it! Then got a Thorn, for long cycle rides whenever possible, learned more about bike parts and types of bikes though of course until you've ridden a certain type you can't judge :) One day I can tune a front derailleur w/o help... ;)



Pedal to the metal! Wind, rain, hills, braking power permitting ;)

triaesthete

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Re: Cycling psychology: is there a cyclist's heirarchy of needs?
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2012, 01:02:57 pm »
Does any body else here need to suffer on the bike to feel they are overcoming adversity and gain self esteem?

This always seemed to me to be the motivational root of many outdoor pursuits.  If so did you choose a bicycle because of this? After all we expose our bodies more or less unprotected to the elements every time we ride, and are also at risk from the traffic, crashing and more besides (see Dan's Sherpa thread and the il padrone's Australia!)

Curious
Ian