Author Topic: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways  (Read 96678 times)

Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #135 on: February 18, 2013, 12:18:49 am »
Quote
...now a GB shifter on the new Thorn drop bars...Simple conclusion: The Thorn bars do the trick.
Really helpful report, and the first I know of on the Forum for the new Thorn 'bar in-use with the GB shifter. Sounds like a viable solution for the needs of many; thanks!
Quote
This is the third pair of bars on this bike, I'll probably stick with these until an STI style shifter comes out.
Yay! Sounds like these really did to the trick for you; excellent!

Best,

Dan.

Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #136 on: February 19, 2013, 11:03:01 pm »
Hi All!

Yesterday, I came across an entirely different approach, and I'm just kicking myself I didn't bookmark the site so I could return to the photo (Oh, look! Danneaux's found the bad sector on his mental hard drive*).

I'll do my best by description for now and post the photo later:

With drop 'bars, a bar-end (as used on MTB 'bars) replaced the right-hand brake lever, set level with where the brake hood would be. The Rohloff shifter was mounted to the bar-end and the brake lever was replaced by an interrupter lever also mounted to the bar-end. The caption claimed it offered much of the functionality of STI with the Rohloff shifter and drop 'bars.

Hopefully, this description will be enough to visualize it for those who are interested or in need of such a solution.

Best,

Dan. (...*who always knew this day would arrive :-\)

JimK

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #137 on: February 23, 2013, 01:13:02 pm »
http://www.bicycletimesmag.com/content/nahbs-2013-adventure-touring-bikes

Some fun bike photos here, but in particular the first bike has the Rohloff shifter on its aero bars.

NZPeterG

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #138 on: February 23, 2013, 07:27:21 pm »
http://www.bicycletimesmag.com/content/nahbs-2013-adventure-touring-bikes

Some fun bike photos here, but in particular the first bike has the Rohloff shifter on its aero bars.

Hi
Yes it looks a good place to mount it.

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Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #139 on: March 05, 2013, 10:02:32 pm »
Hi All!

I have just posted a video showing my Rohloff shifter mounted to the T-bar above my compact drop handlebars, and how easily I can "dial-in" as many as 7 gears at a turn by "spinning the dial" from the end, approaching as I would to turn a doorknob. This setup really has proven convenient for my use, and hopefully the video will show why I prefer this location.

My YouTube channel is TheSherpaRider. The video may be found at: http://youtu.be/lVh3qb4F0sQ

I always wear cycling gloves while riding, but left them off so you can better see my finger and hand positions while shifting. It isn't a very far reach from either the regular brake hoods or from the interrupter levers mounted beneath the tops of the handlebars. I find it even a bit more convenient in practice than bar-end shifters on a derailleur bike.

I'm usually more inline when at rest on the brake hoods, but had to accommodate the very tall/wide tripod holding the camera as I shot the video.

Best,

Dan.

Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #140 on: March 06, 2013, 07:41:52 am »
Hi All!

I did again find ( http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4049.msg33999#msg33999 ) the really innovative solution where a Thorn Mercury owner created an STI-like Rohloff shifter mount. I have written to ask his permission to post a photo or two here, but until I hear back, these are the URLs where you can see pictures of his design:
Root page: https://www.facebook.com/custom.furnitureworkshop
Photos of the installation on his remarkable Thorn Mercury, setup as a fast-tourer with Rohloff "brifter":
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/223464_493551927375200_1050276138_n.jpg
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/404872_490542837676109_1900168733_n.jpg
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/13074_490542447676148_335280890_n.jpg
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/557709_490539551009771_1587729660_n.jpg
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/69694_490535597676833_95392690_n.jpg
Original HB setup, possibly with a T-bar mounted shifter: https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/293152_417200015010392_600881229_n.jpg
Again... https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/561972_417199968343730_301060616_n.jpg
Earlier straight 'bar with dropped-bar-ends and *two* pairs of brake levers with double cable stops: https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/398102_271699909560404_1852967961_n.jpg

It appears he has attached some sort of bar-end to his drops in lieu of conventional brake levers, then mounted a Gilles Berthoud shifter to the right side. Both extensions carry a pair of reverse/pursuit brake levers, mimicking the effect of road-bike brake levers (a pair of interrupter levers serve in their expected role under the 'bar-tops). I'm not sure how well the brakes could be actuated from the drops, but this surely is the best example of a truly "integrated" Rohloff "brifter" installation I've seen for drop handlebars.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 06:15:32 pm by Danneaux »

Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #141 on: March 06, 2013, 04:59:34 pm »
Hi All!

Ah! Permission granted by the owner to post the photos. Here's what he had to say:
Quote
Yes its fine for you to share the pictures. Its a great setup and am still testing and tweeking it, but am really pleased with its performance. Im very sorry that I cant tell you the specifics of the mount as its be patented as we speak, but I can tell you its not a modified bar end but engineered by myself. Though you could modify a bar end Im sure. Sorry I cant tell you right now but as soon as its patented ill let you know.
Setup by Jake, Custom Furniture Workshop, Haverford West, Pembroke, Wales. Photos, permission to post granted by same.

Best,

Dan.

wildrover

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #142 on: March 18, 2013, 06:57:04 pm »
Wow!  What a wonderful thread!

I'm going to ask myself the same questions as you have been asking.

I have a Raven Tour now, and am looking at Co-Motion's Cascadia, something a bit more US road-friendly.  (I'll save the RT for when I do the Divide, haha, or  the C&O, or the Katy)

Since I've last bought a drop-bar bike, handlebars have evolved, and I'm hoping I might find something more comfortable than on my old Trek 2120, meaning I might possibly go back to drop bars on this bike!  So that leaves me with the same shifter questions others have had.

So my 2 questions are

1.  on Co-Motion's shifter, and Dan (I hope you are out there!), I've seen your video when you visited the factory.  It actually looked as though it was not comfortable shifting for you.  Is that correct?  Did you find it to be too wide, as fleur reported?  Now that you have your own Rohloff shifter, how does it compare with your test in the shop?  I worry that this shifter will turn out to be a prototype. 

2.  Regarding the Berthoud shifter, has anyone found the external dimensions of the shifter?  I haven't been able to Google it up, and I wonder how much free space it would leave on the bars, depending on the center "bulge", or if it would fit under brake levers as does the Rohloff.  Does that make sense?  I see some lovely photos, but I can't guess how wide the drop-bars would be to start.

Anyway, I appreciate ALL your recent thoughts on Rohloff shifters. 

Thank you all for your wisdom, I can't believe how much I've learned here!

Regards,
Holly

alcyst

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #143 on: March 18, 2013, 08:15:41 pm »
This is my Berthoud on the new Thorn Rohloff bars. Tried to include a larger image, and failed, so lets work off this; the Thorn Rohloff bars are 44cm bars.
The distance from the centre of the stem to the near edge of the Berthoud is approx 5cm, the gap between the stem and the shifter (i.e. the exposed part of the top of the drop bar) is approx. 2.5~3cm. The Berthoud shifter is approx 5.5cm across. With the Berthoud shift on the Thorn drop bar there is plenty of space for my hand to hold the bar, my hand takes up about 9.5cm of top bar space.

Incidentally the tumblr address is; http://alcyststuff.tumblr.com/
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 08:30:35 pm by alcyst »

Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #144 on: March 18, 2013, 09:01:40 pm »
Hi Holly!

If you haven't seen it already, I have more detailed thoughts about my own "on-top" T-bar shifter setup for my Nomad in my gallery descriptions and photos here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4523.0

This setup is working out very well for me on short and long rides. Is it perfect? No, of course not, but it is very workable -- moreso than anything else I've tried and very convenient to reach. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVh3qb4F0sQ On balance, I do prefer it to derailleur bar-end shifters for placement. The biggest "problem" is it sometimes draws unfavorable comments because it looks odd. It is aesthetically less pleasing than some solutions, but that is trumped by function for me. It also works well because I paid very close attention to cable routing throughout the steerer's range of travel.

As for drops...yes, the extended length of brake hoods has meant a return of more compact handlebars with shorter reach and drop and (yay!) parallel or near-parallel tops-and-drops. I never got along too well with anatomic or deep drops. I find I use the drops on compact 'bars frequently simply because it is not such a long/low reach to them. If I need to go "deeper", I just bend my elbows a bit more.

Quote
1.  on Co-Motion's shifter, and Dan (I hope you are out there!), I've seen your video when you visited the factory.  It actually looked as though it was not comfortable shifting for you.  Is that correct?  Did you find it to be too wide, as fleur reported?  Now that you have your own Rohloff shifter, how does it compare with your test in the shop?  I worry that this shifter will turn out to be a prototype.
The Co-Motion shifter is now in production, but as Danny Vrijmoet told me, "We're really not in the parts business" as a mass supplier. Rather, this was made for their bikes first, and is available for purchase by anyone. On the plus side, the Co-Motion has a lot going for it:
• Really fine workmanship.
• Smooth action.
• Beautiful integration when used with 31.8mm clamp-section handlebars, allowing it to be slid on 'round the bends.
• Requires minimal room on the handlebars, leaving a lot of the tops free for various hand positions.
• What appears to be better weather sealing than the Gilles Berthoud unit.

It also had some marked drawbacks for my use and preference, which may not be typical:
• It is black-anodized, uncoated aluminum. Aluminum conducts heat very well, which in my eyes means it is likely to be cold in cold weather and blistering hot in the desert climes where I tour. For this reason alone, I don't think it would be usable for me.
• It has a pretty hefty diameter, and -- while the motion was very fluid -- it was not noticeably lower in effort. Being uncoated, the aluminum was slippery (I think it would be hard to actuate in the rain), and the dished grip portion was not too easy to grip. I have narrow hands with long, bony, but very strong fingers. While it was okay indoors, under less than ideal conditions I think it might be difficult for me to grasp and actuate. This is a prediction, since I have not used it under rainy, wet, cold, or hot conditions myself. Co-Motion's production shifter has very nicely and clearly laser-etched shift numbers, something the model in the video lacked.
• Nice as they may be, the Co-Motion and Berthoud shifters are aftermarket parts. As with all such things, they don't have direct Rohloff factory support in terms of replacement parts availability through Rohloff. Any "boutique" part can disappear if circumstances change, but in this case, Co-Motion made the shifter for bikes they also produce in-house, so there is an incentive to continue to support it. Similarly, though Gilles Berthoud is a small touring specialist and manufacturer, this is a bread-and-butter item for them, congruent with their market focus. Origin wasn't nearly as important to me as other factors, but there are far more OEM Rohloff shifters and parts in the hands of users and in the sales and distribution stream than there are competitors' products.
• The biggest drawback of the Co-Motion shifter for me arose because I could not access it from the end -- the key reason why my present setup works so well for my needs as shown in the video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVh3qb4F0sQ ). I've mentioned this before, but as I worked with Andy Blance to spec the Nomad, I put a lot of time and effort at my end into doing my own human-factors and ergonomic analyses before I made my basic setup request. Andy did mention the Gilles Berthoud was not as well sealed for extended touring use in severe conditions.

Things fell together for me when I spent a good 45 minutes studying how I open doorknobs. I found I very rarely "roll" a doorknob with my arm and hand parallel to the door. Rather, I approach it from the end and grasp the knob that way, twisting it open with my thumb and several fingers -- just as I shift the Rohloff in the video I linked to above. This is much easier on my hand, wrist, and elbow, and allows me greater leverage to turn the shifter or even spin ("speed dial") it. It allows me to use the original Rohloff shifter, ensuring future availability of parts. Even better: The grip is rubberized and insulated against heat and cold and maintains a good grip when wet, addressing each of those needs.

All of this meant T-bar mounting was ideal for me. I started with it below the handlebars, then in that location switched it from the 55mm T-bar to a 105mm T-bar, co-located it with the HB bag mount, then mounted it alone. Each of these was workable for me, but the real revelation was triggered by Andre Jute, who -- on seeing an emailed photo -- said "You've got it all wrong, Dan!" I investigated to see if it was indeed possible to mount the shifter on a T-bar above the handlebars.

Though I prefer my T-bar setup (which can be rotated around the steerer to adjust the angle of approach) mounting the shifter on a bar-end HubBub adapter also allows for an end-on approach with many of the same advantages.

Again, my situation and preferences helped in getting what I needed:

• I would have preferred a Nomad with a short top-tube as I had on (560S) Sherpa, but the closest available was a medium (590M). To get my preferred position and reach meant going for a short (60mm inverted riser) stem and compact handlebars that matched the drop and reach of my other bikes' handlebars (Maes-bend with the same dimensions as my other randonneur 'bars) while allowing "normal" brake lever placement.  Andy did a great job of getting me in the ballpark with a 90mm stem, anatomic 'bars, and very high-mounted brake levers, and this got me close enough to know what was needed to get where I finally wanted to be. Whenever I buy a new bike, I always budget a bit "extra" to fine-tune the positional adjustment with new handlebars and stem if needed, so this was no surprise. I now have a perfect fit in every respect and easy shifting with drop 'bars using the original Rohloff shifter.

• Two other factors pushed me toward this above-'bar mount:
1) My 60mm stem was too short to mount my GPS in the center; the 105mm T-bar provided the perfect perch while placing the shifter just ahead of the handlebars as well as above them, leaving me plenty of room to twist the shifter without obstruction.
2) I wished to leave my steerer uncut for maximum future flexibility in setup, and so the extra length was just sitting there anyway; putting the T-bar shifter up-top gave that extra steerer length an immediate purpose. As it happened, putting the shifter's T-bar up-top also took some gadgets off the handlebars. It allows room for my SkyMounti Inclinometer and a perfect place to mount the Rowi camera clamp that holds the GoPro POV vidcam above the handlebar bag or allows me to swivel toward me to make my own "interviews". While 44cm handlebars are "wide" for drops, there is nowhere near as much room as on wider straight or comfort 'bars, so removing the shifter and gadgets leaves the entire drop handlebar free for gripping.

•  I'm pretty careful with money, and Thorn's Accessory T-bars are a very economical way to experiment with shifter placement at a fraction the cost of an aftermarket shifter. I kept the Co-Motion and GB both in mind as eventual possibilities, but my present setup works so well for me, I don't plan to change. I have grown used to the setup and if I someday switched to a non-drop handlebar, I would probably leave the shifter on its high-mounted T-bar. Its location makes headset and other service a breeze.

•  I allow myself the time and use needed to modify the bike after getting to know it. Usually by the 6-month mark (about now in my ownership), things are where they will stay. Up till then, I figure things are going to change and I avoided padding or taping the new handlebars till I knew things were final. Good thing, too. The 42cm compact 'bars proved just too narrow, and I had to buy a 44cm to replace them. I'll recover about half the cost by selling them on eBay, so USD$20 wasn't too much to find and finalize my "forever" setup.

I hope this helps, Holly. If you have any questions, you're welcome to PM me. Since I have no direct experience with the GB shifter, I'll defer comment on it in favor of other members' own experience.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 10:10:11 pm by Danneaux »

wildrover

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #145 on: March 18, 2013, 10:22:25 pm »
alcyst, yes!  That tells me the story.  I believe I read the Thorn bar has a 40mm 'bulge'.   I'm happy to know there is enough room to work with, possibly even with a different bar, as it appears you placed the shifter where it was most comfortable for you, not placed adjacent to the stem.  Perfect!  I'm estimating the OD is about the same as the width.  Good place to start.  Thank you for posting the photo.

Dan, I apologize for not mentioning your excellent video on your solution,  it was so thorough, I just couldn't think of any questions  ;D.  However, I didn't think about the aftermarket products and support, I'll need to keep that in mind.  I certainly haven't had any problems with the Rohloff shifter, and would prefer it as well.  Oddly, C/M doesn't want more than 40mm in spacers on their bikes, and whether the reason is for looks, or for function, we haven't gotten that far in our discussions.  That would limit accessory bar use (maybe) but I'm sure it could be done for a price.  Also, I've gotten comfortable with the Rohloff on the comfort bars, and hadn't thought much further than that!  I guess the Thorn has spoiled me in some ways. 

Thank you again Forumites, the research continues!

Regards,
Holly


Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #146 on: August 28, 2013, 07:41:46 pm »
Hi All!

Another option is coming to market in the form of Tour Terrain's Cinq5 Shift:R twin-trigger Rohloff shifter that works with drop or straight handlebars. It looks as if it might be possible to position the trigger shifters near the brake hoods as well as across the tops of drop handlebars. See: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=7167.msg45621;topicseen#msg45621

Best,

Dan.

sweats

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #147 on: September 05, 2013, 06:17:31 pm »
Thought I would update with some finished pics of my new dropbar setup. This one uses a stub tube mounted to the bars.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/100403540@N04/9678251255/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/100403540@N04/9681487578/

I have also included some pics of my stealth aero setup for your amusement.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/100403540@N04/9678252551/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/100403540@N04/9678254339/

Happy viewing.
Chris

Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #148 on: September 05, 2013, 07:15:40 pm »
Time to marvel anew at your skills, Chris -- a fine job to meet your needs.

I...I can't help myself. I *need* the "aero* setup for commuting in traffic. I really do. I have a hunch Jawine could use one as well.

All the best,

Dan. (...who really appreciates your sharing this)

mickeg

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #149 on: September 06, 2013, 12:06:30 am »
I had thought about starting a new thread with the 13th way, but since this thread was resurrected I won't make a new one.

I am just about finished tuning and adjusting my setup.  Tried a few ways to attach shifter.  I tried the shifter on the T Bar, but my interrupter brake lever was in the way, if I moved the brake lever forward to be out of the way, then the handlebar bag was in the way of the brake lever.  Placing my shifter where I did would be a problem if I stood on the pedals to climb hills, but I do not stand on the pedals to power up hills because my knees can't take it.

I asked Rodriguez how much they wanted for their Doohickey, they quoted (with shipping) $110 USD.  I could buy the Thorn T Bar for half that much, even with shipping to USA and cut the bar off of the T Bar and use that the same way.  So the Doohickey was in my opinion too exorbitant.  (Perhaps since it is intended for use with a Rohloff, the price is tripled?)

I planned to cut the bar of the T Bar, but I decided first to try one last option first, and I have been happy enough with that option that I am not doing any surgery on a T Bar.    See photos.  Mountain bikers sometimes install a bar end that (sometimes) is the same diameter as the handlebar that allows them to grip the bar end instead of the bar.  I bought a used pair of bar ends, cut one down and attached it on the Thorn T Bar that I use to hold my handlebar bag.