Author Topic: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways  (Read 96704 times)

JimK

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #90 on: July 31, 2012, 03:20:06 am »
Ah, that video is really nice, gives a great feel for what the device is like. A beautiful bit of machinery!

Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #91 on: July 31, 2012, 03:24:20 am »
Hi All!

I got busy with Flickriver today and looked to see if I could find photos of additional ways to use a Rohloff shifter with drop handlebars. I did find a few, mostly variations on what we've seen, but some executed differently. I'll post them as links below, since many of the methods have multiple views...

On a Minoura SpaceGrip ahead of the handlebar, next to the brake hood:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertscycles/4529695580/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertscycles/4529694462/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertscycles/4780746429/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertscycles/4780745795/sizes/o/in/photostream/
Same, but elevated: http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertscycles/4780746887/sizes/o/in/photostream/

Our own Stuart (stutho) has used this approach for some six years with considerable success:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=644.msg4662#msg4662

Very nice views of the Gilles Berthoud shifter, installed:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andychurch/7302139292/sizes/o/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andychurch/7301803640/sizes/o/in/photostream/

Rohloff on a cut-down bar-end, mounted at an angle on a 22.2mm quill stem shaft:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/antbikemike/2126007004/sizes/o/in/photostream/

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 04:16:30 am by Danneaux »

Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #92 on: July 31, 2012, 03:30:15 am »
Quote
A beautiful bit of machinery!
Thanks, Jim; it really felt nice to hold, and had the same feel to me as a quality gun. I don't shoot or own a gun, but the several collectors' and marksman's editions I have been privileged to hold felt much the same in-hand.

I would have some concerns for my particular application (desert touring in shoulder-season and high-summer temperature extremes, sustained rain or snow getting there through the mountains), but that might not be relevant for others' use.

I'm guessing part of the success of this shifter lies in designing it from the start for oversized handlebars. On the handlebars I saw, the part near the stem was largest, then necked down as expected away from the stem. Would make it easier to fit the shifter around the curves, I'd think. Looking forward to Brian's answers to our questions.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 06:57:11 pm by Danneaux »

julk

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #93 on: July 31, 2012, 09:36:20 am »
Dan,
Interestingly the Co-Motion changer looks to have the gear numbers the opposite way round to the Rohloff and Giles Berthoud.
Definitely a different choice for drop bars!
Julian.

Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #94 on: July 31, 2012, 06:14:52 pm »
Hi All!

I just received a reply from Brian with answers to our questions. Verbatim:
Quote
Hi Daniel,

It was great to meet with you here at Co-Motion Cycles. Thank you for taking the time to visit and review our new shifter. Below are some answers to the list of questions you left with us.

1. The new Co-Motion 14-speed shifter for the Rohloff Speedhub is designed to work with any handlebar that has a bulging 31.8mm clamp diameter, primarily a road bike style drop-bar or mountain type straight handlebar.  It is intended to clamp directly onto the oversize 31.8mm portion of the handlebar.

2. The shifter mounting clamp could feasibly fit smaller diameter handlebars with a shim.

3. Our new shifter will slide over any standard, ergo and even compact drop-bar, except (see #4).

4. It will not fit over the aero style drop-bars that feature a flat top, like the Profile Design Wing bars, FSA Pro Wing handlebars, etc.

5. The 'oversize' bars on the market today are the perfect application for this new shifter, as the clamp needs the 31.8mm bar diameter to clamp to.  It is designed to clamp within 1/4 to 1/2-inch of the stem. This provides the most usable amount of the handlebar.

6. Yes, the brake cable runs through the shifter and clamp for the smoothest and cleanest cable routing.

7. Yes, the shifter can be rotated to adjust the exit angle of the cables.  We imagined a 45-degree exit angle down and away from the bars, while still keeping the gearing indicator visible.

8. The shifter does have grease between the two moving parts. Also, it is hard anodized for low friction, smooth rotation and good looks.

9. There are two o-rings sealing the outer and inner pieces of the shifter, creating a barrier from water and other elements.

10. The shifter is machined from a single piece of 6061 series aluminum stock.

11. The outside grip diameter is 54mm, the smallest we could accommodate with this design and incorporated features.

Please let us know if you have any follow up questions.  We are happy to help!

Best regards,

Brian Cannon

[Co-Motion] Sales and Customer Service


So, there you have it; all questions answered (thanks)!

Best,

Dan.

triaesthete

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #95 on: July 31, 2012, 07:15:07 pm »


Nobody expects the Dannish inquisition!

swc7916

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #96 on: July 31, 2012, 10:05:45 pm »
Before you decide which shifter mounting you want, you really should ride the bike and see if you like it.  If you can't ride it, at least sit on it and pretend to ride and shift.  Just because it looks convenient doesn't mean you'll like it in practice.   Imagine sitting on the bike and shifting.  What position would your hand, wrist, forearm and elbow be?  Mine was originally mounted at the stem and I didn't like it; Moving my hand up and to the inside made me sit up a little and just felt unstable.  Turning my wrist in that position was not natural.  I shift a lot and much prefer having the shifter on the barend.  In this position, the shifter is at the same width as my grip and the wrist action is natural.  With it mounted at the stem the shifts were much more deliberate; now I just drop my hand to the shifter and shift without looking.  If you liked the old stem shifters then you might like your Rohloff shifter mounted high and inside.  I never liked stem shifters.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 10:08:06 pm by swc7916 »

Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #97 on: July 31, 2012, 10:22:59 pm »
Quote
Before you decide which shifter mounting you want, you really should ride the bike and see if you like it.
This is really superb advice, SWC, and worthwhile keeping in mind no matter what kind of shifter one is considering.

I so very much wished I could have tried the Co-Motion shifter yesterday, but the two bikes that carried the shifter were in show-trim and not available for use. As for my Nomad, I don't have firsthand experience with a Rohloff shifter, so had to make the best decision I could from afar, reading of others' experiences. What I ended up doing (original Rohloff shifter on a short T-bar) was the most conservative and yet most versatile. I can change the handlebars without disturbing the shifting and -- to a lesser extent -- I can change the shifter's location pretty easily as well.

For some reason, I've never really taken to bar-end shifters as I did to downtube, though I use modified and repurposed thumbies on the tops of my tandem's drop 'bars and -- much to my surprise -- they have worked out very well for me (but only on that bike; the Arai drag brake is operated by an old SunTour bar-end shifter which has proven ideal for me in that use).

Still good advice to "try before you buy" and that holds for pretty much everything!

Best,

Dan.

Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #98 on: July 31, 2012, 11:22:59 pm »
Quote
...the Co-Motion changer looks to have the gear numbers the opposite way round...
Good call, Julian; I thought something looked a little different at the time, but it didn't hit me till I saw the pics afterward. I wonder if the cables cross internally somehow so the action is effectively reversed? Of, if they go opposite the usual direction from their anchor points to wind the other way 'round the drum?

Brian mentioned the orientation can be adjusted...
Quote
Yes, the shifter can be rotated to adjust the exit angle of the cables.  We imagined a 45-degree exit angle down and away from the bars, while still keeping the gearing indicator visible.
From what he showed me, they had previously used a Hubbub mounting at the end of the drops as SWC prefers (and shown on that lovely tandem of his). There was one on a sample bike in the showroom. For the life of me, I don't recall if it was a standard Rohloff or a Co-Motion shifter; I think it might have been the latter.

SWC also raised an interesting point about angle of hand approach. I have yet to receive my T-bar mounted shifter, but I see there is some popuarity to mounting the Rohloff shifter at an angle to the steerer, rather than inline with and parallel to the frame. I'm thinking that might make a more confortable approach for some people. I figure I can rotate mine a bit to try if it seems a little hard to reach. I'm guessing if it is on a T-bar...I can perhaps reach over the exposed end of the knob and shift it that way, rather than turning the knob inline. Fred? You out there? How do you go about shifting your T-bar mounted Rohloff? From the end, or by gripping it inline?

Any preferences among drop-'bar users for the old triangular shape over the new roundish Rohloff, or do you prefer the new to the old?

Best,

Dan.

swc7916

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #99 on: August 01, 2012, 04:29:35 pm »
For some reason, I've never really taken to bar-end shifters as I did to downtube

I agree with you regarding bar-end vs. downtube shifters, but the Rohloff shifter rotates which makes it more natural (for me) than a lever in that position.

Good call, Julian; I thought something looked a little different at the time, but it didn't hit me till I saw the pics afterward. I wonder if the cables cross internally somehow so the action is effectively reversed?

The direction of the shifting is determined by which cable is pulling at the hub.   With a shift box, the direction that you wind the cable around the pulley determines whether a clockwise turn of the shifter is an upshift or a downshift.  (The fellow who built my bike says that he gets this backwards all the time and has to take it apart and redo it.)

Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #100 on: August 01, 2012, 06:11:42 pm »
Quote
The direction of the shifting is determined by which cable is pulling at the hub...
Oh! I see; makes perfect sense, now. Thanks, SWC; very helpful.

Best,

Dan.

Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #101 on: August 02, 2012, 01:41:03 am »
Hi All,

Today, I received futher amplification from Brian at Co-Motion about their Rohloff shifter. Here is what he said...
Quote
The shifter used in conjunction with the Hubbub bar-end adapter, as seen in our showroom, is the stock Rohloff shifter.  This will continue to be our standard shifter set-up, on the bar-end unless customers upgrade to our Co-Motion shifter for different placement.

The gear numbers engraved on the shifter are in fact incorrect. This was our first article we received back from anodizing and we quickly realized the mistake.  The first batch for sale will have the correct numbering orientation, same as Rohloff and Giles Berthoud shifters. For our show bikes we changed the cable routing inside the gear box, so the numbers are in-line with the hub.  I suppose if you weren't accustomed to the stock Rohloff shifter already, you would not know the difference.  However, we would like to be consistent with the other options on the market.
Very helpful.

Best,

Dan.

Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #102 on: August 02, 2012, 02:37:20 am »
Not quite in the "shifters for drop handlebars" realm, but close...

I just heard from a friend in Central Asia who is in the industry. He has heard of two efforts to construct alternative shifters for the Rohloff Speedhub. He thought one was some kind of twin-trigger RapidFire-like design, but depended on a long, slack spring somewhere in the cable inline with the seat- or chainstay, under development in Taiwan. The other was an effort from Guangzhou (Guangdong), China. He only knew it was round, but no details beyond that.

I'll followup on both unsubstantiated rumors and I have a further inquiry in to Mittelmeyer, asking if they are still on-track for a September introduction of their units.

Details as I get them.

Best,

Dan.

benstevens

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #103 on: August 02, 2012, 03:56:04 pm »
Mittelmeyer have a webpage showing their grip as for delivery in September, even got some pretty CAD drawings
http://www.mittelmeyer.de/Fahrradteile/DSG-Rohloff/dsg-rohloff.htm

Danneaux

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Re: Drop 'bars & Rohloff: A dozen differ'nt ways
« Reply #104 on: August 23, 2012, 01:15:35 am »
Hi All!

The attached photos show my solution for using a Rohloff shifter with drop handlebars on my Nomad Mk2. I initially had the shifter mounted to a 55mm T-bar below the 'bars, just above the 105mm T-bar for the handlebar bag, itself located just above the stem. The placement was much like Fred's, which I greatly admired.

Thanks to some brilliant thinking by my friend Andre Jute, after some deep thought and a lot of experimentation, I placed the shifter atop my stem on a 105mm T-bar, also used to mount my GPS and GoPro video camera. This was possible because I specified my steerer be left uncut. A possible similar solution for those with cut stems is the 45-degree Thorn 172.5 extension, here:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn-accessory-bar-t-shaped-1725-mm-extension-45-deg-no-shim-prod28574/
Depending on stem reach and placement, it might put the shifter just ahead of the handlebars and possibly somewhat above. Much will depend on a number of variables.

This unusual placement atop the stem is proving ideal for my needs, and I am so happy with it. I can easily reach it from any location on the handlebars, and my fingers clear the handlebar nicely. Thorn T-bars are remarkably light (the 105mm weighs only 120g) and very sturdy.

A longer discourse on the path to this shifter location appears here:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=4523.msg22081#msg22081

All the best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 04:31:17 am by Danneaux »