Author Topic: tout terraine plug 2 help.  (Read 10630 times)

StuntPilot

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Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2013, 06:47:11 PM »
Yes, shame as I specifically bought the PME for touring. So the PME must be trying to draw its maximum input of 5V 2A Max (as stated on the PME unit). I am going to email Power Traveller and get some more info. The PME is solid, IP67 waterproof and dustproof, great capacity - I would really like a way of charging it from the Plug II + ::)

Dan, is there any device you know of that would plug between the The Plug II + and the PME to maintain 5V 0.5 - 1A for example? This would solve the problem of the PME drawing too much and 'trick' the Plug into stepping down the current drawn to get that green light on.

I like the small extra battery in your link but cannot find in the UK. I did however order a 5000mAh battery today that looks good and at a great price ...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000NDQ92W/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

By the way, with one bar showing on the PME, I repeated the experiment with the Steripen Freedom as mentioned above. Even though I have the very latest PME (end 2012), as in the video the Steripen Freedom stops charging from the PME if the PME itself is put on charge when remaining charge is low.

Regards

Richard (who is still not giving up just yet!)

Danneaux

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Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2013, 07:05:08 PM »
Quote
Dan, is there any device you know of that would plug between the The Plug II + and the PME to maintain 5V 0.5 - 1A for example? This would solve the problem of the PME drawing too much and 'trick' the Plug into stepping down the current drawn to get that green light on.
...Working on that now...wondering if it might be possible to daisy-chain accumulators so at least one was ahead of the PME. Trouble is, it would take forever to charge the lot even if it worked.

There's just not a lot of voltage/current to work with, and devices are getting ever more power-hungry. In response, USB 3.0 bumped up not only data transfer rates, but current (now rated to 900mA/0.9A, up from a nominal 0.5A).

I have also been playing with the B&M e-Werk I have here, and so far...no, it doesn't appear it would charge the PME either, so hold off on thinking about getting one of those. If the PME does indeed go for max power beyond what a dynohub can supply (and there's every indication that is indeed what is happening), well, the same situation would obtain and the limitation would indeed be the dynohub just as TT say.
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...as in the video the Steripen Freedom stops charging from the PME if the PME itself is put on charge when remaining charge is low.
<nods> Yep, a "feature" of the PME's charging program. If its own battery is low, it "decides" to bump-up its own charge before allocating a charge to any plugged-in device. Not a bad choice for the designers, as it means the "fuel tank" gets replenished first, allowing it to run untethered as soon as possible.
Quote
Richard (who is still not giving up just yet!)
Good on ya! You have my support.

Best,

Dan.

Danneaux

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Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2013, 07:10:06 PM »
Richard,

I can't begin to describe my cobbled-together test rig, but it appears (from what I can see with various dummy loads) that if there is a semi-charged accumulator of some sort (i.e. rechargeable storage battery) between the TTTP2 and an over-drawing load, the TTTP2 doesn't go into an over-draw state...at least until the midpoint accumulator begins to run down.

It "works", but only for awhile. It is akin to robbing Peter to pay Paul, and in the end everything goes flat (or fails to charge) as the dynohub and TTTP2 can't supply the needed current to keep up.  It might be different in practice with the PME replacing my dummy load, but I think the end result would be the same.

Best,

Dan.

rualexander

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Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2013, 07:18:04 PM »
There were a couple of cache batteries recommended on another site that I took note of, both of which can charge at the same time as being used to charge stuff.
http://www.tekkeon.com/products-tekcharge1860.html
http://www.hypershop.com/HyperJuice-Mini-7200mAh-Battery-for-iPhone-iPad-iPod-USB-s/165.htm
Those are US sites, but I found them over this side here http://www.solariflex.com/batteries-portables/266-batterie-usb-tekkeon-mp1820.html and http://www.systo.co.uk/electrical-equipment/batteries-accessories/rechargeable-batteries/sanho-hyperjuice-mini-hj72-red.html
There's also a smaller version of the Hyperjuice http://www.systo.co.uk/electrical-equipment/batteries-accessories/rechargeable-batteries/sanho-hyperjuice-micro-3600mah-hj36-red.html
I haven't used these so can't recommend personally but here's the guy that did recommend them http://www.tiredofit.ca/2011/03/19/pedal-powered-electronics-charging-system/

Richard, I have the Technet battery from Amazon, it's ok but can't be charged and discharge at the same time, and the level indicator lights are not very reliable.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 07:23:23 PM by rualexander »

StuntPilot

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Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2013, 11:02:59 AM »
Ru

Some great suggestions thanks!

I should receive the TeckNet iEP 380 battery in a few days so will report my findings. At the price (£15), I can always use it for something else 'off-bike'. Its a small price for a little bit of experimentation!

I did look at the Hyperjuice Mini and originally that was my battery of choice. It's input is stated as 5V 1A. After my PME experience (input 5V 2A max) I am a little hesitant to buy one until someone reports that it can charge from the Plug II + at a reasonable speed. I am also looking for it to 'through charge' devices while the battery itself is charged from the Plug II +.

The Amazon description of the TeckNet iEP380 states "No AC Charger is included, but TeckNet iEP380 is compatible with original iPhone AC charger or Other 5V 500ma-1A USB Charger" inferring that it may charge at 5V 0.5A or 5V 1A (or between).

Ru, if you say it works ok, at what speed does it start charging?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 11:17:57 AM by StuntPilot »

StuntPilot

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Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2013, 07:53:16 PM »
While waiting on the TeckNet battery I noticed that the supplied rubber plug for the USB post pops out when on rough roads or off-road. I think it is a bit flimsy. I found these that look more solid (dust proof and splash proof). There may be a modification coming soon!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-Black-Silicon-Splash-Proof-USB-Type-Socket-Dust-Protector-Plug-UK-Stock-/300797672113

Danneaux

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Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2013, 07:59:01 PM »
Ooh! Nicely found, Richard; nicely found indeed!  ;D

Best,

Dan. (...who is casting an acquisitive eye toward that eBay listing)

StuntPilot

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Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2013, 08:06:49 PM »
Dan, I have sent the two thread links concerning 'The Plug' to the very helpful and responsive Felix at Tout Terrain so that he can follow user feedback (if he is not already doing so!).

Best

Richard (hoping everyone still says nice things about The Plug II +)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2013, 08:08:40 PM by StuntPilot »

Danneaux

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Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2013, 08:18:25 PM »
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I have sent the two thread links concerning 'The Plug' to the very helpful and responsive Felix at Tout Terrain...
Good idea, Richard; as Administrator, I am often contacted by manufacturers who monitor the Forum for just such feedback, and who graciously respect guidelines and refrain from using the Forum to openly promote or advertise their products.

The Forum is a wonderful tool for manufacturers to freely gather feedback on their products and to see how they perform in the field for real users, over time. The Forum is an ideal resource for refining and improving products and for getting QC feedback!

Best,

Dan.

StuntPilot

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Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2013, 03:18:16 PM »
A response from Felix at Tout Terrain ...

Hello Richard,
 
thanks for the two links!
The Smart Power Pack that we are working on is no secret. We have shown it at Eurobike and you can find all the details in our catalogue.
Itís not actually a new version of The Plug, but an addition. We didnít integrate a battery into the Plug itself, so that you can also use it off the bike.
 
Kind regards
Felix MŁcke


Here are the links to the new catalogue ... online ...

http://issuu.com/toutterrain/docs/katalog_tt_anha_nger_zubeh_r_2013_final_web/31

and as a downloadable PDF ...

http://www.en.tout-terrain.de/fileadmin/media/pdf/deutsch/kataloge/Katalog_TT_Anha__nger_Zubehoer_2013_final_web.pdf

It looks like the new Plug is actually an addition to the existing Plug which is good news to those like me who already have the Plug II +. It is a specifically designed cache battery for the Plug II +

Due first half of 2013.

Looking deeper into this and already feeling recharged!
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 05:28:15 PM by StuntPilot »

Danneaux

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Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2013, 05:37:07 PM »
Excellent, Richard; well done!

I've surely been pleased with my TTTP2 setup. I also have the B&M e-Werk to compare. On balance, I'd say neither is clearly "better" than the other because they serve different needs. The TTTP2 installation is "cleaner", worry-free/failsafe, and more resistant to casual theft. The e-Werk has more freedom in placement, can be readily moved from bike to bike, has djustable output (in both voltage and current) and comes with cabling for a variety of gadgets.

Looks like the day of practical on-bike charging is here at last.

Great news about the TT cache battery -- it's on my list!

Best,

Dan.

StuntPilot

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Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2013, 05:45:27 PM »
Dan, yes. I think the TT cache battery will be excellent. He also told me that it will operate at three different settings (automatically I assume) so that it will charge at a range of speeds, including at slow speed.

Now I see the next step in the evolutionary process as a 5000mA battery, in a similar round format, that can be mounted inside the steerer under the P.A.T., or better, a battery/P.A.T. combined unit. This would allow devices (e.g. GPS) to continue to be powered/charged when you stop for lunch!

Just an idea Felix!  ;)

gover_1

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Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2013, 08:23:19 PM »
Danneaux. Some interesting comments about the continued relevency of the e-werk. On my Sherpa build dynamo charging was the most difficult choice to make.

Option 1 : New B&M luxos u with integrated charger : very neat but with it very integrated ( read nickable)

Option 2 : tout terrain plug : Very neat but can't be moved from bike to bike

Option 3:  new B&M usb-werk neater than the e-werk as it has an integrated cache but messier than Option 1 & 2

in the end i went with the e-werk as i wanted to be able to use it on my more light duty tourer as well ( a claud buttler black diamond sold byb SJS Cycles before they started making their own bikes). On its arrival it is smaller than i thought it would be and fitted to the underside of my stem is not at all obtrusive. now

StuntPilot

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Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2013, 06:06:55 PM »
gover_1 - yes, I have considered the B&M solution and I like it. What puts me off is the variety of settings and the possibility of selecting the wrong setting and potentially damaging a device or the battery. Still in the back of my mind though!

Dan, I have found something similar to your handy battery here in the UK ...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/CostMad-Emergency-Lifeline-Universal-Blackberry/dp/B00BBX0KQE/ref=sr_1_110?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1362776775&sr=1-110

It is interesting that both your link to the 2200mAh battery and the one above is that they resemble the Tout Terrain cache battery soon to be released. I think they are all made by Guangdong Pisen Electronics Co Ltd ... (first flash picture) ...

http://www.pisen.com.cn/

It would be interesting to know how Tout Terrain have modified the design for use with the plug II +.

My the way, the USB silicon plugs are a good tight fit and work very well ...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-Black-Silicon-Splash-Proof-USB-Type-Socket-Dust-Protector-Plug-UK-Stock-/300797672113

Just need to look at cutting off the Tout Terrain thin insert (retaining the rest of the rubber bit) and to finding a secure way of attaching the new plugs.

SuperGlue?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 06:25:41 PM by StuntPilot »

Danneaux

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Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2013, 06:37:32 PM »
Hi Richard!

Given the low cost, I have considered getting an eBay 2200mAh cache battery just to play with. Even if it didn't recharge from the TTTP2, it would come in handy as a spare. I did notice the outward similarity! I suspect TT employs some changes to allow charging from flat at a lower demand rate. Of course, it lacks the nifty TT mount, but I could live with putting it in the HB bag for charging.
Quote
Just need to look at cutting off the Tout Terrain thin insert (retaining the rest of the rubber bit) and to find a way of attaching the new plugs. SuperGlue?
The TT "cap" is held on with a tiny roll pin, which can be driven out with a drift if you don't wish to cut it. As for the new cap, I haven't had luck "gluing" things to silicone except with silicone, though SeamGrip does sorta-okay. If you Google "seam-seal silnylon", you'll get lots of suggestions. I think I would try making a mechanical leash for the new cap, using the original TT rotating washer to tie a thin nylon cord or nylon coatmaker's thread. The end of the cord could be inserted into the new silicon cap using a needle and tied-off with a knot to prevent loss. The other end could be tied to the TT rotating washer (it can be gently prised off and replaced to make working on it easier).

I'm giving some serious thought to making a little "shower cap" for the TTTP2 top cap, secured with elastic at the bottom. The idea would be to slip the cap on when it is really raining hard. If I get the design right, it would allow continued charging in the rain as well as keeping the connection dry when the bike is parked.

All the best,

Dan.