Author Topic: tout terraine plug 2 help.  (Read 10625 times)

jags

  • Guest
tout terraine plug 2 help.
« on: January 28, 2012, 08:19:28 PM »
just curious but is there a video instructions on how to fit the tout terraine plug 2 i did search but no luck.
thanks
jags.

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7163
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2012, 08:28:36 PM »
jags,

Right here, my friend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvNmhmVJZ5w

Any questions, give a shout.  It is a pretty straightforward operation. Just allow enough clearance to avoid squashing the head-unit connector; may involve adding an additional, thin spacer.  I would also suggest getting their removable star-fangled nut replacement to facilitate future headset service and to ease installation.  Well worth the extra USD$20 cost.  Just use a bit of anti-seize when installing it to prevent galling.

Basically, you...

1) Remove your threadless headset top cap and place it in your spares bin.
2) If the "petals" on your star-fangled nut are aligned, feed The Plug2 wire down between them.  If there is no path or you prefer Tout Terrain's replacement, remove the star-fangled nut and install the replacement. This is also the best choice for easy future headset maintenance, since it can be easily removed and replaced and you can leave the charger lead attached to your fork blade when you need to remove the fork. See: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3800.0
3) Feed the wire down through the bottom of the steerer and secure it to the fork blade.
4) Attach the wire to your dynohub using a piggyback connector. Piggyback connector pictured here: http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/wiringinstructions.asp
5) Check carefully for clearance of the connector above the star-fangled nut with the wire lead attached to the head unit to make sure it will won't be crushed on tightening. If insufficient clearance, adding a 3mm spacer should do the job.
6) Screw down the top bolt, angling The Plug as necessary for convenience or clearance.
DONE. If you also use a Thorn Accessory T-bar to mount a handlebar bag, you won't even lose your headset adjustment. Otherwise, the headset is adjusted as before, loosening the stem clamp bolts, tensioning with the top-cap (Plug2) bolt, and retightening the stem clamp bolts.

For more details, see: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.0

Pics, installed: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.0

Relevant company webpage: http://www.en.tout-terrain.de/accessories/electric-power-supply/
Installation and user manual: http://www.en.tout-terrain.de/fileadmin/media/pdf/deutsch/dokumentation/bedienungsanleitungen/The_Plug_II_Anleitung_de_en_05_11_V1.0.pdf (Illustration from the manual below)

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2012, 05:19:43 AM by Danneaux »

jags

  • Guest
Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2012, 08:48:12 PM »
cheers Dan i'm still dreaming about all these add on's but i can see how this would be a grear addition to have .thanks Dan you were on the ball. ;)

just thinking dan pity you didn't have a video camera handy when you were building up your sherpa and explained in english, ah well to late now.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2012, 08:55:12 PM by jags »

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7163
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2012, 08:53:00 PM »
jags,

Edited my response to add a few more details since you posted.  Pretty simple operation, really.  Yes, it is a nice unit.

Best,

Dan.

jags

  • Guest
Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2012, 09:12:26 PM »
Thanks Buddy your a star. 8)

jags

  • Guest
Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2012, 05:40:16 PM »
Calling up our man DAN 8)
promise i won't ask again but i was looking at the sjs website  for the tout terraine plug 2  and it seems its not just the plug but there seems to be a long tube that goes with it ,is this right.
i though you just feed the wires into the head tube and then connect the plug the plug is also the stem cap i would imagine. :-[
sorry dan for all these stupid questions but i've got to ask.
cheers
jags.

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7163
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2012, 05:55:14 PM »
Hi jags,

The Plug with the tube that is currently on-sale at SJSC for reduced price is the original The Plug.  It is here:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tout-terrain-the-plug-hub-dynamo-powered-charging-device-prod23036/

After producing it for awhile, Tout Terrain came out with The Plug 2.  It is smaller (only the top cap head unit) and has greater efficiency.  It is here:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tout-terrain-the-plug-ii-hub-dynamo-powered-charging-device-prod26498/ <-- This is the one I have.

I see SJS Cycles also has a listing for "Tout Terrain The Plug II Plus", currently a blank placeholder on their website at:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tout-terrain-the-plug-ii-plus-hub-dynamo-powered-charging-device-prod27695/

This may be the elusive "The Plug 2 Extra Power" unit and The Plug 2. I still don't know anything more about the Extra Power except Tout Terrain say it can be added to The Plug 2 to give a higher output. I can't grasp how this is possible since the output of The Plug2 is regulated. We'll see as time passes and they write more on their website about it.

You wondered...
Quote
...the plug is also the stem cap i would imagine...
Yes, The Plug 2 replaces the stem cap. Just put the original in your spares bin in case you ever want it again.

jags...it's natural for questions to occur as a person learns more about these things, no worries; happy to help.

All the best,

Dan.


« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 11:09:05 PM by Danneaux »

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7163
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2012, 06:36:47 PM »
jags,

As I was writing my reply above, I heard directly from Tout Terrain regarding their add-on Extra Power unit for The Plug 2.  Details here:
http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.msg17371#msg17371

I'm guessing this might be the "Tout Terrain Plug Pat Power Cable for The Plug II" listed presently as a placeholder by SJSC here:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tout-terrain-plug-pat-power-cable-for-the-plug-ii-prod27694/

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 06:59:04 PM by Danneaux »

jags

  • Guest
Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2012, 06:57:25 PM »
thanks Dan  it had me totally confused ;D

StuntPilot

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 385
    • Tour on a Bike
Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2013, 01:24:40 PM »
Hi All! Just received the Tout Terrain Plug II with the P.A.T unit (the '+' bit). Just a quick question - does anyone know how to best fit the P.A.T bitty?

I assume that the star-fangled nut (SFN) needs to be removed to get this bit into the tube? Of can I push the SFN down so the P.A.T sits on top of it?
Is there enough room (in anyones experience) of fitting this?

Also, if I need to remove the SFN, does the P.A.T part just dangle from the Plug unit? Surely the cable connection between the two may pop out over rough terrain. Should I glue it in place? What about putting some foam round the P.A.T to keep it in position?

Grateful for any experiences and advice on fitting the Plug with the P.A.T! Sorry for the think out loud questions but I am excited with my new toy and keen to get it fitted in the best possible way!

rualexander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 827
Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2013, 03:50:36 PM »
I don't know about most of what you are asking but would advise against using foam to lodge it in place. The foam will hold moisture and potentially lead to corrosion from the inside out.
I once kept spare spokes inside my seat tube on a previous  bike, held in place with foam, and the tube rusted right through at that point.

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7163
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2013, 07:02:12 PM »
Hi Richard!

Congratulations on your new toy! I like mine as well, and need to install it on the Nomad as I did on Sherpa. The press of other matters has delayed things.

Yes, to install the PAT, you must remove the Star-Fangled Nut (SFN) and replace it with Tout Terrain's removable substitute. It is not required, but also a Very Good Idea if you use only The Plug2. If you don't, the sharp sides of the SFN "petals" can wear through the insulation on The Plug2 lead, causing a short. The replacement TT SFN is aluminum, so will require installation with anti-seize to prevent future problems and galling against the inside of the steel steerer. To make clear...while you can install The Plug2 alone with the original SFN in place, you must remove the SFN to fit the PAT or it won't fit in the steerer.

Please don't drive the SFN downward into the steerer, which is butted at the lower end and then blocked by the mudguard mount. It will cause you all sorts of grief trying to proceed from there if you do. Far better to remove the SFN.

Removing the SFN is easy if you follow my instructions here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3800.0

As for what to "do" with the PAT...that's easy as well. When you first receive it, the power lead is doubled back on itself and held with a twisty-tie. Leave it that way, pulling out only the wire you need to make a connections at each end. The rest of the doubled lead will serve to gently wedge the PAT in the steerer, preventing disconnection and also preventing moisture from being trapped. Rual is absolutely correct in his caution to avoid foam, and you don't want corrosion to occur inside the steerer. If need be, you can use a fingernail-sized square of closed-cell foam on one side if the doubled wire doesn't do the trick. The closed-cell foam (part of an old camping mat) won't absorb moisture. If you do this, be sure to leave enough room for water to pass by and drain out. I'd avoid it is at all possible.

[By the way, a spoke holder hidden inside the seatpost will prevent the problems Rual had. I show the one I made here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.msg18563#msg18563 Fitting a nitrile o-ring at the seatpost/seat tube intersection also does wonders to keep moisture out.]

I can offer a couple cautions most people seem to overlook when installing the TTTP2 with or without PAT:

1) When installing the top cap, be *sure* there is enough room between the snap-in electrical lead at the bottom of the Plug and whatever you use as a SFN before you tighten the bolt. TT's removable SFN replacement is at a fixed height...and there may not be sufficient room to clear the lead once the cap bolt is tightened. This occasionally leads (sorry) to broken connectors and the effective demise of the TTTP2. I "dry fit" mine very carefully, then usually add a 3mm spacer below The Plug (remember, The Plug also serves as the top cap for the spacer/bearing stack).

2) When routing the wires, be sure to allow for future headset replacement/fork removal. It may seem a dim-distant possibility now, but someday you'll need to replace the sealed bearing cartridges on your Thorn-fitted FSA headset. Remember, too, Thorn thoughtfully brazes a threaded plate at the bottom of the steerer for directly mounting mudguards. It leaves a small gap on each side for the wires to pass through. The Plug and PAT must be fitted into the steerer from above...the leads exit from below. To remove the fork, the connections have to come apart. I use Dean's mini-connectors at the ends to allow future service. They provide a very firm fit, are gold-plated, and are available at any hobby shop catering to the R/C car/airplane/helicopter/boat enthusiast. Details, part numbers, and links are here: http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3896.msg17113#msg17113 Similar mini-/micro-connectors are available from other firms and vendors.

3) Though others have disagreed (due to the insulating effect on low-current connections), I have had stellar luck using silicone dielectric grease on the electrical connections to prevent moisture and corrosion problems. It isn't required, but works well for my needs.

4) If you test-fit the lot together, you'll probably find yourself needing to remove the connector from The Plug's top cap. Per Tout Terrain's tech notes, the connector really does pull directly outward and away using reasonable force and a couple strong fingernails on the connector, not the leads. There is no latch to undo; a direct pull on the connector removes it.

5) If things ever go really sour, it is possible to replace the connector and use telephone wire to replace the leads and I have helped several people do this with success. It is an involved procedure I won't take space to give the details here, but it is possible so keep that in mind if needed.

Best of luck, Richard. The installation requires some thought but is not as complicated as it first seems. I laid mine out on the floor the first time, then used what I saw to ponder and develop the routing. If you run into a rough patch, give a shout!

All the best,

Dan. (... who thinks you're going to like your new toy)

StuntPilot

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 385
    • Tour on a Bike
Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2013, 08:35:39 PM »
Dan

Thanks once again for the excellent info and wisdom! I have calmed down a bit now and have taken some time examining the Plug, P.A.T and other bits that came in the box. Several times I have watched the Tout-Terrain video, and read your excellent technique for removing the little blighter (SFN). A lot more confident now.

Your advice (and rualexander) to avoid using foam is duly noted. I have some very dense closed cell foam that I can use at a pinch if your 'folded wire' technique does not hold the P.A.T reasonably in place.

I have carefully checked the P.A.T to Plug connection and by pressing down the edges of the connector, the connection is actually quite robust, and with the light weight of the P.A.T, coupled with the cable fold to hold it in place, I am now confident that it will not come loose.

So, tomorrow I will remove the SFN and prepare the parts with a few 'dry runs' and cable measurements. It does not look as difficult as first imagined.

I see your point about leaving enough room for the lead at the bottom of the plug. I have plenty spacers to cover that.

Having recently wired up my front and rear lights with Schmidt co-axial cable, I have plenty connectors left and intend to make fork removal easier with such a connector arrangement. I cover the electrical connecters with a film of vaseline, then some heat-shrink over the top. Has worked well with the lighting cabling.

Thanks for reminding me of the galvanic corrosion issue with the steel form and aluminium plug. I have Copperease for this, however have read somewhere that using this can still cause dissimilar corrosion and that an aluminium based anti-seize would be better. I think Park Tools have a bike specific product. Any thoughts on Copperease in this in this situation Dan?

Thanks again for the info! Will reveal my experience of fitting the plug when all done!

Best

Richard

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7163
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2013, 08:48:55 PM »
Quote
Any thoughts on Copperease in this in this situation Dan?
For aluminum-to-steel, I generally prefer to use a high-temp anti-seize intended for brake parts. It is silvery in color and while I have not looked at the MSDS on the latest bottle, I think it probably contains graphite, molybdenum, and perhaps some aluminum as a similar brand did. In my car-mechanicking days, I found copper-based anti-seize was less effective in that application, so I switched.

I am beginning to think the effectiveness of a given anti-seize may depend in part on local environmental factors, such as humidity and the presence or absence of salted roads. For the UK, there seems to be an overwhelming preference for Copperease or CoppaSlip, and both appear to work well. Here in 'Merka's upper-left corner, the high-temp brake grease/anti-seize seems to have an edge.

For some applications, I prefer molybdenum disulphide grease, a favorite brand being what Honda use on motorcycle suspension links and on car transmission sliding applications.

I'd give the Copperease a go, since that's what you have on hand.

You'll do fine, no worries!  ;D

All the best,

Dan.

StuntPilot

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 385
    • Tour on a Bike
Re: tout terraine plug 2 help.
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2013, 11:22:08 AM »
Thanks all. Fitted the Plug II without a problem. Star fangled nut came out easily and copperease was used with the tout-terrain nut. One fold of the cable lodged the P.A.T firmly in the steerer.

I have wired it up to a B&M Dymotec 6 bottle dynamo. Its a great little dynamo and powers the B&M lights well. There are four connectors on the dynamo, two live and two neutral. The lights are connected to one set, and the Plug II to the other. I went for a 50km ride on Sunday taking the PowerMonkey extreme battery with me. With no load, the light on the plug II comes on and stays on at 5km/hr and above so I thought, great, plug it the PowerMonkey extreme. However the Plug II light flashes on and off as does the PowerMonkey display even up to 20km/hr. It appears not to be charging the battery.

Searching the forum, I may have found the answer (and its a long one!!!) here ...

http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=3802.0

Wading through all of Dan's great information on that topic at the moment. I have decided to take all devices that I intend to power with the Plug II and test them individually from the Plug II USB port, from the PowerMonkey Extreme, and from its solar panel. I will put my results on the other topic as they relate to experiences with the Plug II while this topic is more about fitting (jags original question).

So far I have found that my basic mobile phone (Nokia 2630) also does not charge from the Plug II USB directly but the Freeloader Pro does.

I am of course concerned that I am not able to charge the PowerMonkey Extreme from the Plug II USB! I will continue to report my findings here.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 03:01:13 PM by StuntPilot »