Author Topic: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?  (Read 18361 times)

Danneaux

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Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
« on: October 23, 2011, 02:21:25 AM »
Hi All,

Thinking more about the horrible consequences of theft,  I wonder if it might be possible for Thorn itself to establish a registry of serial numbers cross-referenced by owner name and contact information. Information could be provided by owners on a voluntary basis, and if the list were secured properly, it could be quite safe (otherwise, it could provide a nice shopping list for thieves).

A search of this forum shows a person in Spain kindly purchased a possibly stolen Thorn in hopes of reuniting it with its owner and made every effort to do so.   See:  http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2338.0  The same thread revealed Thorn currently maintains no cross-referenced owner/serial database.  I wonder if it might yet be possible to establish one.  A quick look at my invoice and receipt from Thorn show no serial number noted there.  I found mine was stamped on the left side of the bottom bracket, and have noted it for my records.  If that information could be filed with Thorn, it might serve as a central clearinghouse in the event a Thorn is noticed or even recovered by other forum members.  The bikes are rare enough here in the States that I have hope someone might Google the name and come across this forum.  If they could then contact Thorn who might in turn notify the bereft owner, then perhaps bikes and riders could be more readily reunited.  Certainly, we forum members seem to have a well-tuned radar for spotting Thorns even amidst other makes, so it could only help.

Thoughts?

Best,

Dan.

jags

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Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2011, 05:43:21 PM »
excellent idea. ;)

doug

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Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2011, 10:34:52 PM »
Ditto - indeed an excellent idea.
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Cedric

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Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2011, 01:30:09 PM »
It seems that Moulton bikes have such registry. You feel like buying Bentley or smith.

Danneaux

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Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2011, 06:12:05 PM »
Oh! 

Here's a template of the secure online form used by Rivendell, a manufacturer/distributor of frames based in Walnut Creek, California.

Something like this might well fill the bill for us Thorn owners seeking a serials registration database:

https://www.rivbike.com/Articles.asp?ID=323

Hopeful,

Dan.

Danneaux

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Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2011, 06:51:59 PM »
And another, though not via an https connection:  http://www.diamondback.com/register-your-bike/

Dan.

Milemuncher

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Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2011, 07:00:04 PM »
Sounds like an excellent idea.

pwat

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Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2012, 09:16:33 PM »
Registry sounds like an excellent idea. 
Members fearing security issues could leave just their mobile number &/or email address to avoid the "Thieves' Shopping List" problem.
 

richie thornger

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Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2012, 01:52:21 PM »
As an owner of two used Thorns this would be great to help the buying process as well as if yours is stolen.
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Danneaux

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Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2013, 01:52:27 AM »
Hi All!

I have been giving this matter some more thought and figured I'd crowd-source my idea by running it past you all, figuring someone might stop me if I'm about to make an unforeseen mistake.

I've received PMs and emails from a number of you wishing there were a Thorn serials registry.

I thought about offering to establish and maintain such a registry myself. I'm located in an area with few if any other Thorns on a continent remote from most of you so I am an unlikely security risk, but there still could be problems. The basic idea is sound, but not the execution.

Here are my current thoughts:

There is already a Thorn Cycling Forum...and this is the only one. We (members) are already registered and access the forum using a screen name and password. Many of us have put photos of our bikes in the Gallery section. So far as I know, none of this has resulted in a Thorn being stolen.

So, what if I were to start a new Forum topic titled, Thorn Ownership Registry, and those who wished could post their frame serial number, the model and color and details of their bike, and their Rohloff serial if applicable? The information would be keyed to our screen identity and in the event a bike were stolen, members *and guests* would be able to check the serials of any new purchase against the Forum registry to see if a bike was already owned. In the event it was, the owner could be contacted here by registering as a regular member and sending a PM to the owner.

The SMF Forum software date-stamps each post and by being overt, ownership of a given serial would be established before the world at a given date (I assume we each have our receipts of some sort to back up our claims in the event of theft and to prevent false ownership claims). Anyone including law enforcement officials could simply view the relevant Forum Board, check the date stamp, and verify a claim of prior ownership to a recovered bike and match the description and serial to any found or offered for sale illicitly.

Participation would be voluntary and those having second thoughts could always delete their entry just as they can delete any of their other posts. Posts could also be updated by the original poster by using the "Modify" option to reflect a legitimate sale, new ownership, trade-in to Thorn/SJSC, or loss due to fire/flood/damage.

I can't see how a Forum registry could be readily keyed directly to our addresses and used as a "shopping list" for thieves. Rather, by making an overt claim of public ownership, it should be easier to establish rightful ownership if there is a dispute or in the event of a theft and subsequent recovery. The Registry would persist as long as the Forum, and the Forum already comprises a de facto owner's club, a site where enthusiasts of the marque are likely to check. Many of us regularly check eBay for used Thorns, and collectively we are more likely to spot a stolen Thorn than the general population -- especially if we have some basic information to reference.

Here's a sample entry for what I have in mind; these fields would seem to cover pretty much everything that is needed:

Owner: Danneaux
Bike: Thorn Nomad Mk2
Frame Serial: 590Mxxxxx
Frame color: Matte black
Rohloff hub serial: xxxxxx, black
Brief description: Rohloff hub, drop-'bars, Brooks B.17, black mudguards, SON dynohub, F/R Thorn racks, all black components

How does this strike you? Thoughts? If things look good, I will move forward.

Best,

Dan.

JimK

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Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2013, 03:00:40 AM »
It's a bit like the black vs yellow choice in Nomads. Try to be invisible or try to stand out.

My decision point seems to have passed long ago. It'd be difficult to be more visible than I have made myself!

Andybg

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Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2013, 08:08:43 AM »
My personal view is that it would be a good idea. Not only will it give a date stamped record of bike ownership it would be a very interesting source of seeing who rides what and how they have it set up. Maybe to make it of more value maybe we should try and include a few more details like frame size, height of rider, tyre choice etc.

I know it would take longer for each entry but would be a very good resourse in one area.

As people dont have their adresses up here I dont think it really would be at all that helpfull as a resourse for possible theifs.

Andy

ianshearin

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Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2013, 09:01:52 AM »
Gets my vote, sounds like a great idea.

It would have to be on the premise that it is a enthusiasts registration, so not a definitive list of official owners.

A thief for instance could register on here and then register a stolen bikes details and then use the site to convince a buyer the bike is genuine.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 09:06:40 AM by ianshearin »
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IanW

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Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2013, 02:21:25 PM »
Hi all,

The idea gets my vote too. This forum is a definite and obvious point of reference to enquire about the provenance of an apparently secondhand *Thorn* cycle.

But I have a few questions/observations:

1) How does this idea handle the case where *one* forum user owns *more than one* Thorn cycle?
(I.e. it would be daft to have to "invent" a second forum identity to simply register a second Thorn cycle)

2) Does the security of access to this data adequately prevent someone looking up details of currently legitimately owned Thorn cycles, *not* to target a theft, but to clone the existing identity onto another stolen Thorn cycle? (And purport to be the reputed owner on this forum thus giving the sale legitimacy?)
I.e. does anyone and everyone on this forum get *browse* access to the data?
Or are they only allowed to make a specific previous owner(s) enquiry when they specify a specific serial number

3) How about, in addition to Dan's already excellent suggested data, for each registered cycle, including:
    a) An (approximate) date of purchase
    b) Type of transaction (e.g. "bought new from Thorn" or "bought s/hand [from xxxx]")
    c) Thorn frame size code
    d) Date of sale or onwards transfer to new owner *to be filled in only when cycle is sold/transferred*
    e) Date of disappearance/theft *to be used in the very unfortunate event thereof*
    f) Last known location *to be filled in only in the event of theft*

4) My Thorn cycle is also tagged with some additional "security" identifiers (Datatag)
    and there are plenty of other cycle registration schemes out there.
    So it might be useful to record multiple of these alongside the Thorn cycle ownership record

Finally, and people may have mixed views either way with this one:

5) The ability to lodge a photo of owner and cycle in with the "ownership record"
    Such a photo is then ideal to print and submit to the police in the event of theft,
    along with all the other bicycle identification information all taken from this ownership record.

Just my 2p-worth
Ian

Andybg

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Re: Thorn serials registry -- good, bad, or even possible?
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2013, 02:38:23 PM »
Some good points there Ian and some questions that need answering before we go ahead with the idea. My thoughts would be:


1) How does this idea handle the case where *one* forum user owns *more than one* Thorn cycle?
(I.e. it would be daft to have to "invent" a second forum identity to simply register a second Thorn cycle)

I am thinking that Dan's idea was just to have it as onother forum topic so you could either put all your bikes under one post or have a single post per bike.

2) Does the security of access to this data adequately prevent someone looking up details of currently legitimately owned Thorn cycles, *not* to target a theft, but to clone the existing identity onto another stolen Thorn cycle? (And purport to be the reputed owner on this forum thus giving the sale legitimacy?)
I.e. does anyone and everyone on this forum get *browse* access to the data?
Or are they only allowed to make a specific previous owner(s) enquiry when they specify a specific serial number

I think that everyone would have access to the data both friend and foe. I think the only use of the forum in helping people not buy stolen Thorns would be to people who use the forum and would be able to find the bike on the forum and contact the member and say "is it you selling this bike?"

How about, in addition to Dan's already excellent suggested data, for each registered cycle, including:
    a) An (approximate) date of purchase
    b) Type of transaction (e.g. "bought new from Thorn" or "bought s/hand [from xxxx]")
    c) Thorn frame size code
    d) Date of sale or onwards transfer to new owner *to be filled in only when cycle is sold/transferred*
    e) Date of disappearance/theft *to be used in the very unfortunate event thereof*
    f) Last known location *to be filled in only in the event of theft*


I think there is an endless list of information that could be added or not dependant on the forum members choice so the more the merrier in terms of details is my thoughts but still based on one post per bike and keeping it to bike registration posts only.

4) My Thorn cycle is also tagged with some additional "security" identifiers (Datatag)
    and there are plenty of other cycle registration schemes out there.
    So it might be useful to record multiple of these alongside the Thorn cycle ownership record

Same as above


5) The ability to lodge a photo of owner and cycle in with the "ownership record"
    Such a photo is then ideal to print and submit to the police in the event of theft,
    along with all the other bicycle identification information all taken from this ownership record.

I think picture of bikes are very helpfull and the picture of the bike with owner sure makes it difficult for a theif to pretend to be you

Thers my thoughts for what its worth...

And dont forget we will need some STOP THEIF - This bike is Thorn Forum Registered -LOL

Andy