Help with choosing Raven or RST

[6527richardm]

Thanks for all the advice and also the link to Sheldon Brown.

I agree that it is not just the weight that dictates I also ride my bikes differently.

I also intend to load up my panniers with enough for 10 days and see what they weigh this should also inform the decision but it will not be made until I have ridden both

[SPARSONS]

Rich,
I've had both, 1st a sport tour and now a tour. I think I recall Andy B saying that there's about 8 oz difference in the frame weights.

I found the tyre size restriction of the RST the limiting factor for me. It's ok if you only want to use 1.5" Hi-Roads, or 1.75" Tourguards, but I found the availability of other tyres limited.
 
I did not find the RST particularly sporty, compared to my other 700C bikes and I don't find the RT much different than the RST in this respect.

Im currently running 2.0 Marathon supremes with a 38:16 ratio. Unless your riding it as fast as you can I find this fine and can ride at 20 mph with it, how much faster will you/can you go? I'd sooner run out out gears going downhill, than going up.

I'm on a 586s (I'm 6'2") and find that with 1.5" tyres the wheels look out of proportion to the frame size, though obviously this is just down to looks, but who wouldn't want to be happy with the look. 2" tyres looks far more in proportion in my eyes.
Good luck and enjoy!

Steve

[Fred A-M]

I am reasonably certain that the weight difference between the RST and RT is nearer 1Kg, though Thorn are conspicuous in making this information easy to find - regardless of whether I'm right or wrong, it would good if Stutho could maybe put the definitive answer in his comparison chart? 

Admittedly, I can't make direct comparison never having tried the RT, but I think the "sportiness" is in comparison to the RT, rather than an attempt to market it as some form of racing bike - from recollection the RST brochure clearly states light touring as its forte. 

This in mind, I certainly wouldn't put anything wider than 1.5 on the RST as this would seem to completely defeat the purpose of having the RST .  As for tyre width and looks, I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder but think my RST looks absolutely fine with 1.5's. 

http://www.thorncycles.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=2197.0

There have been occassions when I've thought the RT might have been a better choice given load capabilities but my experience suggests that the RST would be good for say a 2 week summertime camping tour with some light off-roading, and has served me perfectly well in pretty all situations so far.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14081381@N03/1434639976/sizes/l/in/set-72157602137097920/

[brummie]

RE: 8oz frame weight differences:

I suspect any further weight differences will be between the forks - the RST forks will be lighter than those fitted to the Raven Tour...

[6527richardm]

Steve

From what you are saying there is little to choose between riding the 2 bikes in which case I may be better going for the Tour as it will give me the option of putting the wider tyres on it.

I was concerned that I may find the Tour to slow but if that is not the case then I will rethink.

If I get the tour I will have the option of picking tyres to suit the riding and from what I understand it would also be better on tracks. I suppose it will come down to how they feel when I go to Somerset.

Nice pictures Fred i now want to take delivery of a Raven bike.

[stutho]

richardm,

I own a RST.  My wife owns a RT in the same frame size(which I often borrow).  I find the two bikes VERY different in character.  Now admittedly they are set up different. The biggest difference being that there are drops on the RST and risers on the RT.  However even allowing for these differences the Bikes (to me) feel very different.  The RST demands to be peddled harder!  I know this sounds peculiar but I swear that it true!  It maybe due to the frame angles, or it may simple be black magic,  but something about the bike makes me want to ride it harder and hence it goes faster! 

The RT is FAR more relaxed and not only in the peddling stakes.  Cornering on the RT is like you are on rails, while on the RST you have to work at.  Ultimately the RST has greater dexterity  but it has less stability  so it demands more of you attention.  The RST is lighter than the RT but the time you have fitted your full panniers is it really going to make any difference?  You can take more load on the RT but I don't find the lower limit a problem on the RST.

So which to choose?  Neither bike is better but each is better at different things.  If you want a bike for day touring, fitness or commuting then go for the RST but if you want a bike for multi day touring then go for the RT.   

In short I love my RST.  My wife loves here RT.  I am sure which ever bike you chose you will love it!

Hope this helps

StuTho
 


     

[Paulson]

Whether we wish to admit it or not, I think that we have all come to a general consensus.  When you get off the train at Bridgwater station, you should find the nearest hostelry and order up a not inconsiderable quantity of the best local bitter. Then, having supped at your leisure, proceed to SJSC, produce your chequebook with a flourish that only an out-of-towner could manage, and forthwith buy one of both!!! 

[freddered]

My RT has gearing of 40x16.  That gives a range of 18" - 95". 

18" is extremely low, it puts you on the point of wheelying on hills when you actually need it and I've never used it apart from on loaded camping trips.
It's a Mountain Bike ratio.

95" is just about OK for a top gear but you can "spin out" on long descents but I've done 10,000 miles on this setup so it must be OK.

If I never intended to ride with loaded panniers again then I'd gear it up a bit to 44x16 (20"-105") or maybe higher,  that would also move 11th gear (the most efficient) to a 71" gear, similar to my Single Speed.

[SPARSONS]

Richard,
I've sent you a PM.
rgds,
Steve

[Wanderer]

I briefly considered an RST, but went for an RT because I might want to put on tyres wider than 1¾".

I've gone for 38 × 16 gearing, and fully expect to use the 17.2" low gear slogging up the South Downs: off road as well as on.

[6527richardm]

Steve

thanks for the email it was helpful I came to the same conclusion. 

Thanks also for all the other advice I agree about the tyre size

[SPARSONS]

Hi Richard,
No worries,
Cheers,
Steve

[Andre Jute]

I can't help you on the Raven/RST choice (en enviable dilemma!) but a couple of general points are worth making.

1. A hub dynamo is a safety feature. There is no need to remove the lamp, which is permanently bolted to the bike. No one will steal it because it is useless to most people. Like others here, I won't have a bike without a hub dynamo. You don't need to spend on the SON; the Shimano hub dynamo is very good too (I have both on different bikes).

2. Fatter tyres are a comfort feature. They are not necessarily slower than skinny tyres, especially if you go for slicks or semi-slicks.

3. Better to run out of gears going downhill rather than uphill. I have 16x38 gears with 60-622 tyres on my Rohloff bike (just about mountain bike gearing) and I daily ride up a hill in front of my house where younger sprinters push. I live in hilly countryside, so I rarely get a good ride on the flat, but then I just use 14th gear rather than 11th (which is the 1:1 gear) and sacrifice a little efficiency for speed. In town and on slight inclines I use 11th and that's actually the gear that I'm in most. It's not a big deal if on a touring/long day ride bike you run out of gears on the downhills; you should do a little spectating anyway!

Andre Jute

[JimK]

3. Better to run out of gears going downhill rather than uphill. I have 16x38 gears with 60-622 tyres on my Rohloff bike (just about mountain bike gearing) and I daily ride up a hill in front of my house where younger sprinters push. I live in hilly countryside, so I rarely get a good ride on the flat, but then I just use 14th gear rather than 11th (which is the 1:1 gear) and sacrifice a little efficiency for speed. In town and on slight inclines I use 11th and that's actually the gear that I'm in most. It's not a big deal if on a touring/long day ride bike you run out of gears on the downhills; you should do a little spectating anyway!

My 16x38 setup just shipped out of Bridgwater today! Here is what my neighborhood looks like:

http://www.roberts-1.com/bikehudson/r/m/climbs/steep/index.htm

I expect I will use the full range!

Jim

[Andre Jute]

I shan't be moving into the Hudson Valley! I wish you joy of your new Thorn, Jim. Pity about the winter just when you get your next bike, but you'll need a little time to set it up just so for those long spring rides.

Andre Jute
Anybody ask me yet what I want for Christmas?