Author Topic: Replacing cables with an external box.  (Read 11628 times)

AndrewC

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Replacing cables with an external box.
« on: September 02, 2010, 05:22:20 pm »
Going to be doing this shortly, all hints & tips welcome.

The Rohloff manual doesn't seem to cover the process, concentrating on the internal variant ?

julk

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Re: Replacing cables with an external box.
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2010, 08:40:56 pm »
Rohloff Manual Section 7.3 pages 80-82 seems to cover it...

AndrewC

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Re: Replacing cables with an external box.
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2010, 09:03:26 pm »
Ah Thanks. 

Andre Jute

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Re: Replacing cables with an external box.
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2010, 10:03:19 pm »
Reprinted from RBT. The respondent, Chalo Colina, is a machinist, bicycle mechanic and builder of circus bikes; he owns several Rohloff gearboxes.

***

Andre Jute wrote:
>
> While I'm ordering service/spare parts and tools for the first annual
> service of my Utopia Kranich and its Rohloff gearbox at about 2000km,
> do I need to order spare gear cables for my EXT klickbox, either for a
> routine swap-out or to keep on standby for a likely breakage. I note
> that Andy Blance of Thorn reckons that even the dicier internal cable
> setup is very unlikely to break before 10K.
>
> Blance also says the EXT gearbox cable on the Rohloff is standard
> dimension normal brake cable. (The internal cable is apparently
> thinner.) Has anyone used standard brake cable, outer and lining
> instead of the Rohloff's own supply? With what result?

Rohloff's external clickbox and shifter are wired with two totally
normal 1.2mm shift cables.  You don't have to stock special spares for
that job.  Depending on your setup, you might need tandem-length
cables.  A quick survey with a tailor's tape measure will tell you if
you need to keep some extra-long cables handy; normal shift cables are
2.0m long.

Rewiring a Rohloff shifter is an _odious_ job, though.  You have to
get a whole series of operations exactly right, in the right order,
before you fasten the cables down.  The cables are fastened with grub
screws, and once tightened even lightly, they can't be reinserted into
the clickbox drum again.  So if you forget any detail in the cable
component stack or in the routing of the cable, you have to begin
again with new cables, starting at the shifter spool.  I think the
most times I have had to do this at one sitting is four times in a
row.  (It's not just outright mistakes that can stop the show.  If it
doesn't feel quite right and you want to try changing something, you
have to start over from step one.)

When the time comes to replace Rohloff shift cables, have every single
bit ready in advance.  Have every tool available that you might want--
bench grinder, fourth hand, precision ruler, whatever.  Have the
printed instruction sheet in hand and refer to it at every step.  Do
not reuse a single piece of housing or ferrule, lest this seemingly
sensible and economical measure require you to repeat the job.

But hey-- at least it uses standard cables.

Chalo

***

And here's another owner of multiple Rohloffs, Pete Creswell, in the same RBT thread with more good advice about measuring the cable:

***
   
Per Andre Jute:
>Thanks, Chalo. I've saved this post. From the video on the Rohloff
>site I thought it looked like a tricky job -- and remembered that
>before this you described it as "odious"

I'll concur with "odious".

For me the recurring problem was getting the length of cable that
protrudes past the housing exactly right.

To that end, I cut a piece of housing to exactly the right
length.

I've done several replacements with the housing piece as my
length guide and haven't had any problems.

But I still have a half-dozen shift cables ready just in case
when I start the job.

Pete Cresswell

***

I assume you already have:

Rohloff cables explained -- Andy Blance Nov 2005, PDF from Thorn site
Cable changing video -- movie from Rohloff site

HTH. Good luck.

Hobbes

AndrewC

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Re: Replacing cables with an external box.
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2010, 08:33:37 pm »
Well that was easier than I was expecting.

The cable outer suggested & supplied by SJS didn't have a separate inner, so I just carefully cut it to match the original ones and put caps on.

I used a 200mm piece of the outer as a guide when cuttting the cable.  I'm not sure how tight the pulley grub screws need to be. Might give them some extra welly to be safe, but it's all together & shifting seems nice & smooth.




revelo

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Replacing cables with an external box.
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2012, 02:07:05 am »
I'm resurrecting this old thread because I don't understand why you can't reuse the old housing. I'm thinking of pulling the existing cables and replacing, just to get some practice with this procedure. But the bike only has 6000km on it, so I don't see why I would need to replace the housing.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 03:09:44 am by revelo »

wheezy

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Re: Replacing cables with an external box.
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2012, 03:49:28 pm »
There's a handy video of this procedure on the Rohloff site:http://www.rohloff.de/en/technology/workshop/videos/external_cable_routing/index.html

As to why replace the outers... no idea, but if you're doing the inners, why wouldn't you? It's not expensive, and not particularly difficult. Also, I think the liner can get chewed up if you leave it too long.

I'm about to do my external box cables, as the outer has been torn. Handy time to be bringing up the subject.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 05:06:46 pm by wheezy »

revelo

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Re: Replacing cables with an external box.
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2012, 04:16:26 pm »
As to why replace the outers... no idea, but if you're doing the inners, why wouldn't you? It's not expensive, and not particularly difficult. Also, I think the liner can get chewed up if you leave it too long.

I'm about to do my external box cables, as the outer has been torn. Handy time to be bringing up the subject.

If the bike were more used and I was doing this as standard maintenance, I would replace the liners. But this is more for practice for field repairs, in case I ever need to do that.

I've read some of the old threads here plus the comments in Living with Rohloff. The official Thorn view, if I'm not mistaken, is to use standard brake housing (which is more durable than shifter housing) and standard 1.2mm shifter cable. To accurately measure the 200mm of shifter cable that protrudes beyond the housing, cut a 200mm piece of brake housing and bring that along in the field repair kit, along with spare cables.

I sewed up a cordura sack, about 13cm square with hook-and-loop closure weighing about 15g, to hold the spare cables, since otherwise the cables unfold and  make a mess in the repair kit:

wheezy

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Re: Replacing cables with an external box.
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2012, 05:08:49 pm »
Very good. If you have everything prepared that way, you'll never need it!


Dave Whittle Thorn Workshop

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Re: Replacing cables with an external box.
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2012, 07:19:40 pm »
Rohloff cables are 1.1mm, its important especially with the Light shifter to use either Rohloff or Fibrax for Rohloff cables as the heads on Shimano cables are too big and deform the plastic cable drum.

Hope this helps.

revelo

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Re: Replacing cables with an external box.
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2012, 12:06:10 am »
Rohloff cables are 1.1mm, its important especially with the Light shifter to use either Rohloff or Fibrax for Rohloff cables as the heads on Shimano cables are too big and deform the plastic cable drum.

Hope this helps.

Yes, it helps a lot. The 1.2mm was a typo, I knew 1.1mm was correct. But the need to use Rohloff or Fibrax cables is news to me. I have a Nomad MKII purchased in Jan 2012, with this type of shifter (http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff-14-speed-handlebar-twistshifter-light-for-speedhub-500-14-8206-prod25413/) which the Rohloff guide calls simple "Twist Shifter NEW". Is this the right cable:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/fibrax-thorn-teflon-coated-11-mm-gear-inner-cable-wire-2200-mm-long-prod19903/

If so, I'll want to buy in bulk, since shipping to the US is so expensive.

Another question: can I use standard brake cable housing for the Rohloff shifter ex box? I'm hoping yes, since I don't want to have to order cable housing from the UK as well.

Finally (and this question is for either Dave Whittle or anyone else who wants to chime in): what parts of the Rohloff shifter and ex gearbox are likely to break during use, or break or get dropped on the floor and disappear somewhere during the cable replacement process (remember, this is a beginner doing the job). I ask because I'll want to order spares as part of my order, again since shipping is so expensive.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 12:25:34 am by revelo »

revelo

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Re: Replacing cables with an external box.
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2012, 04:32:25 pm »
The following is Dave Whittle's reply to an email I sent:

Quote
In production we use these http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/fibrax-fibrax-11mm-tandem-inner-gear-cables-rohloff-compatible-3500-mm-prod28660/ they work really well and we spent a considerable amount of time with Fibrax and Rohloff getting the specs right.

You can use any 5mm brake outer casing you like.  The important bit is not to lubricate the cables and to fit sealed ferrules http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff-shifter-cable-housing-cap-set-8703-prod16491.

You could drop the grubs screws I suppose http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/rohloff-grub-screw-bayonet-connectors-8570-prod16459/ they live in the alloy cable drum.

uksteve58

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Re: Replacing cables with an external box.
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2012, 10:40:09 pm »
Just built my first Rohloff equipped bike (Surly Disk Trucker)
I looked at the Rohloff video for installing cables to EX box.
I followed the instructions but the inner cables were too short to wrap around the pulley and install in the EX box.
In the video it looks like the 200mm measurement is from the end of the outer cable housing, ie without the ferrule, is this correct?
I tried again this time measuring the 200mm with the ferrule on. Now it fits ok.

wheezy

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Re: Replacing cables with an external box.
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2012, 10:59:13 pm »
Yeah, I measured from the fitted ferrule. It's hard to see in the video, I think.

firestarter4075

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Re: Replacing cables with an external box.
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2012, 10:07:19 pm »
ferrule ??