Cracked Frame

[Paddy]

Have just returned from a spin round the New Forest to find that the chain stay (on the chain side) of my Thorn Nomad has a nasty looking crack.I bought the bike second hand last year and would be grateful to know if Thorn(ie SJS) give a lifetime guarantee on the frame

[jags]

i think that guarantee only applys to the orignal owner,
but i could be wrong,would it be a big deal getting a new chainstay put in.

[geocycle]

I've heard very, very few reports of cracked steel frames, other than occaisonally around a welding -is a picture a possibility?  I think jags is right about the warranty but you should call SJS.  Any idea what caused it?

[Paddy]

Many Thanks for you replies.I spoke to Robin At SJS who confirmed that the guarantee applies to the original owner,and suggested l buy a new frame.Before doing that can anyone recommend someone who would repair it? Initial thoughts are Bob Jackson in Leeds,but is there anyone nearer the Bournemouth area?

[jags]

paddy why would robin suggest you buy a new frame,does he reckon the frame would be knackered because of the crack.this dosen't sound to good to me,if that's the case,
anyway i reckon you need a bikebuilder to welde your stay and realighn the frame just in case.

[spoon boy]

This dissapointed me and to be honest has put me off buying now from a manufacturer who claims a lifetime warranty

When any bicycle manufacturer offers a lifetime warranty for the frame then it should be that..a lifetime of the frame.

As we all know nothing else on the bike meets the warranty so when you buy one, and it's not a cheap bike,with a lifetime warranty you do not expect a check the small print momment

I would hope this is reviewed as it makes excellent business sense and a step up in customer service

Also I would advise companys who advertise a lifetime warranty be a bit more honest and remove the lifetime warranty in the advert and replace it with for the life of your ownership.. this to me would seem to be more honest

[Spinnerz]

Lifetime guarantees normally apply to the original owner and rightly so IMHO. I mean, where would it end?

I've bought a second-hand Thorn frameset (a Cyclosportif in 2006) and if it ever develops a fault I'd be a bit sad to see it go but would be content considering the dramatically reduced price that I paid and the good use I've had from it thus far.

[spoon boy]

Thats my only contention Spinnerz is the wording used

can you imagine the impact on sales if you advertised it correctly

Clearly lifetime isn't lifetime, if advertised correctly it would say for the warranty is for the time of the ownership of the original buyer.  Now put that on the main page instead of the small print and I would say the manufacturer is being honest

We all know that very few of us will buy a bike and keep it till we die so how can it be lifetime?

Same with many company's though which is disheartning. Spec savers for instant will charge you extra for an anti scratch coating..take your glasses back with a scratch on a lens after 3 months and they point out that it is a scratch reduction coating and this is mentioned in the small print

Maybe it's just me..but if a company advertises one then in big letters then publish the true meaning which is different somewhere in small print I never spend my hard earned again

There is no point in having a good customer service if all they say is "Ah well it broke and our proper guaranty is in the small print...I reccomend you spend more money with us" I just wouldn't

[jags]

guarantees are not worth the paper there written on ,i was a wee bit disappointed with sjs that they dident offer to fix the frame for the op.it would proberly would have taken one of there builders a nano second to do the job.
there is one thing for sure the op wont be buying a new thorn. pity.

[spoon boy]

Lifetime guarantees normally apply to the original owner and rightly so IMHO. I mean, where would it end?

I think Spinnerz there would no need for " where would it end"  if the description of warranty was in as bold a print and on the main page. The secret is..and again it's not just thorn..if you advertise a lifetime warranty on something the minute you start in small print then it stops being what you are declaring.

If advertising it honestly by saying the lifetime warranty only applies to it's first owner and as proudly and right next to the lifetime warranty claim then how does that sit with the current bikes sold by thorn as second hand..in particular e bay items 400046242403 & 350195412679? now none of those make mention as they are second hand the thorn lifetime warranty does not apply as the new buyer will not be the original owner

Personally my feeling is and it is just my feeling is if I find out that something appears to be different from the actual, then I never spend money there again. In regards to the frame  the o/p mentioned I feel it would have been huge brownie points for sjs and the thorn brand if they have offered to repair it .... but thats just my opinion

[john28july]

I think Spinnerz there would no need for " where would it end"  if the description of warranty was in as bold a print and on the main page. The secret is..and again it's not just thorn..if you advertise a lifetime warranty on something the minute you start in small print then it stops being what you are declaring.

If advertising it honestly by saying the lifetime warranty only applies to it's first owner and as proudly and right next to the lifetime warranty claim then how does that sit with the current bikes sold by thorn as second hand..in particular e bay items 400046242403 & 350195412679? now none of those make mention as they are second hand the thorn lifetime warranty does not apply as the new buyer will not be the original owner

Personally my feeling is and it is just my feeling is if I find out that something appears to be different from the actual, then I never spend money there again. In regards to the frame  the o/p mentioned I feel it would have been huge brownie points for sjs and the thorn brand if they have offered to repair it .... but thats just my opinion

The whole World knows that warraties only apply to FIRST owners! Get a grip.
John.

[spoon boy]

Well I'm glad you know everyone in the world John and have confirmed with them that they know this

Thank you


I see comments on the thorn website like..

The eXp range are built to last 2 lifetimes;although we only guarantee them for one! ..... and many other comments reffering to why steel is better and the quality of the frame

lifted from thorns info blurbs     http://www.sandsmachine.com/bp_sjs.htm     We guarantee your satisfaction Talk to us, have us build you a "Thorn" and if you contact us within 1 week of delivery and tell us that you don't wish to keep it for any reason we will arrange to have it collected and refund you in full, providing that you have not damaged the machine*. (If due to unforeseen circumstances you are unable to ride the cycle during the first week, contact us and we are likely to extend the period). Lifetime Warranty on Frame and Forks ........... 12 months Warranty on Components

As you can see we really can "Guarantee Your Satisfaction"

* = UK only

Again this isn't a dig at thorn directly but a query as to why some firms quote a lifetime warranty then do not tell the buyer it is only as long as the original buyer has it..I've seen thorns being sold second hand where the original seller has included that the bike has a lifetime warranty on the frame..clearly they didn't know

Lifetime Warranty on the Frame means just that and it is easy to see why people would think that considering the wording.



but nowhere do I see anything referring to ..this frame is only guaranteed as long as you are the original purchaser... although I'm happy John if you can show it? so the rest of us can be aware and share your knowledge


That said I really do not want to comment any further on this matter..we have established that the thorn lifetime guarranty only applies to the original purchaser and so now many more will decide on thier purchase with the fullest of correct information..nothing more nothing less

[Spinnerz]

Am I missing something here? There is no smoke and mirrors or sleight of hand!

Someone has initially gained big-time by getting a Thorn second-hand but now isn't a happy bunny because it's broken.

Let's be clear on this. Thorn make their money on the sale to the original owner (let's call him/her Buyer A) and as part of their risk/reward strategy they offer a 100-day money back deal and a lifetime guarantee. On any subsequent transactions (e.g. Buyer A sells on to Buyer B) they make no profit and therefore should have no liability, simply because they get no reward. Indeed, you could argue that Buyer A is where Buyer B should go for redress! But, of course, it doesn't work like that and most normal people readily accept that.

Like I said, I've bought a Cyclosportif frameset second-hand for £400 when they were selling for £900. I've gained but accept that I could lose if a chainstay snaps on my next ride. That's my risk/reward and I'm comfortable with it.

[spoon boy]

The o/p asked wether there was a lifetime warranty on a thorn frame

The answer came back that the lifetime warranty was not infact a lifetime warranty but actually a warranty that only applied to the original purchaser

As there appears to be no mention of this in any information visible it was discussed

The discussion was when is a lifetime warranty not a lifetime warranty

we now have the answer

[Spinnerz]

Most of us knew the answer by sentence 1 or 2!