Will spraying Waxoyl down the seat tube contaminate Hollowtech II bearings??

[Podge]

Hi there,
I've recently sprayed a liberal amount of Waxoyl down the seat tube of my new bike, something I have done with every new bike I have owned since reading the advice in a Thorn brochure. The difference this time is that the bike in question is equipped with Hollowtech II bearings (which I have never owned before). Only then did I look to see how Hollowtech II bearings were constructed... It seems to me that waxoyl, in sufficient quantities, could migrate along the inner Hollowtech crank tube and come up against the rubber Hollowtech bearing seals. Surely then it would only be a matter of time before the Waxoyl would get past the seals and contaminate the bearing grease, leading to increased wear rate and heaven knows what other problems. Or are the seals good enough to withstand being immersed in Waxoyl? Or am I (hopefully) talking cobblers and the Waxoyl will get nowhere near the bearings? The reason why I have posted this topic is because Thorn Cycles seems to encourage the use of Waxoyl in frames equipped with Hollowtech II cranks and bearings, so hopefully someone will give me some reassurance on the matter....

[john28july]

Hello,
I have in the past done just as you have. With 'normal' bottom brackets. I have found that the bottom brackets came loose!
John.

[jimmer]

Waxoyl should ideally be applied to a stripped frame and allowed to dry. Hollowtech II bearings sit on the outside of the BB and are supposed to be pretty water tight so shouldn't suffer too much. Bear in mind that the bearings are a consumable and are designed for easy replacement, though they should last well.

Yours James

[Podge]

Thanks for the replies!
@john: Waxoyl comes in some sort of thinner base that has high penetrative qualities... I've seen it emerge out of 'old' style bottom bracket shell threads, coming from inside to out, with the bottom bracket firmly in place!! It's this penetrative ability that I'm worried about...

@jimmer: Thanks for the reassurance, although I think the thinner in Waxoyl penetrates more than water... Looks like I'll be investing in some Hollowtech II removal equipment...

Anyone else with advice (or even Waxoyl related anecdotes)?

[jawj]

Hey Podge,
I guess it COULD be possible for the Waxoyl to migrate along between the central plastic sleeve and the BB cups and eventually into contact with the bearings, with who-knows-what consequences...

How long ago did you spray in the Waxoyl? It might be worth taking out the seatpost and having the bike upside down for a while. This would allow excess Waxoyl to drip out, leaving a sufficient coating on the inside of the frame which could then dry out normally (as Jimmer said, it's best to apply Waxoyl to a bare frame and then leave it to dry completely).

If you get the tools (I HIGHLY recommend the Ice Toolz one: http://www.icetoolz.biz/icetoolz/index_pro3.php?parent=7&id=42. It's cheap, efficient and has seen months of day-to-day professional use) then pop the cups out, give 'em a good wipe inside and out, smear on a little grease on the inside, anti-seize the BB shell and pop it back in. Replacements BB units are not expensive and, despite them glaring "DO NO DISASSEMBLE" all over them, they can be opened and the bearings cleaned and regreased... ;-) Hollowtech II is a joy.

More generally, I'm a bit concerned about the wisdom of applying Waxoyl down the seat tube without removing the bottom bracket unit first, no matter what style of BB it is. I've been a bike mechanic for a little while now and have seen a fair few seized BBs, necessitating the onerous task of attempting to turn the frame around a bench vice. If only these people had applied a sensible amount of anti-seize before installing the BB and then storing their bike in a swamp, everything would have been ok. It's a good idea to remove the BB cups once in a while to clean the threads on the interface up and slap on some fresh anti-seize. Seeing Waxoyl penetrate along these threads and drip out of the ends of the BB shell suggests that the anti-seize has been compromised, to say the least. What I can then imagine happening is the much, much thinner Waxoyl mostly evaporating, leaving a layer of 'stuff' behind that's not nearly as durable and resistant to being squished as grease or anti-seize. (Grease is designed to be squished and stays in place even when under massive pressure, such as when the BB cups 'magically' tighten themselves.) With no protective layer between frame and BB, the wonders of water and time are free to work their magic and seemingly weld those cups in place.

All of which is a very long-winded way of simply reinforcing Jimmer's first point!

(As I keep saying to newer colleagues: you can never have too much grease...  )

[Podge]

@jawj: Even as I read your post the bike is already hanging upside down in the shed!! This will hopefully do the trick... In the long run I'll invest in some tools and open everything up to give it a good clean. It'll be good to familiarise myself with how Hollowtech II goes together anyway. It's curtains for Waxoyl from now on!

[stutho]

I have split some messages to the  Copper Grease thread.

[Podge]

Okay, the 'hanging upside down' thing did nothing. As it has been so cold lately I brought the bike inside the house and took the seatpost out. The waxoyl I could see down the seat tube noticeably dried to a solid lump in the following days, due to being in a warm environment. At first a noticeable solvent smell came form the bike, but this faded as the solvent evaporated. I have little fear of the waxoyl lumps ingressing into the Hollowtech II bearings as the waxoyl is now too thick to move far and has little penetrative value. It was the solvent base that I was worried about and I am reassured that this has evaporated in the warmth of the house.

So, if you've sparayed waxoyl to the bottom bracket area, and you are worried about contaminating your HT II bearings, place the bike in a warm environment and open the affected tubes to air for a few days. I only sprayed waxoyl down the seat tube so it was easy to open to air. Other tubes that are less 'open' may be difficult to ventilate, but the issue, here, is with the Hollowtech II bearings, so the only other tube in question would be the downtube. As the downtube should (?) be open to the bb shell, then an open seat tube should help ventilate the downtube via the bb shell, and the bb is the area in question when it comes to HT II bearing cotamination, so the 'seatpost out'  ventilation method should work well for a waxoyled downtube too. If, for some reason, your downtube doesn't open in to the bb shell then the HT II bearings can't be contaminated so it doesn't matter. Hope this helps.