Author Topic: Saddle bag / Rack bag  (Read 467 times)

in4

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Saddle bag / Rack bag
« on: May 06, 2022, 09:42:12 AM »
Having a 🤔 moment.
I found that I can comfortably get my tent into a Carradice Camper Longflap. With a supporting rack beneath, to take the circa 2kg tent weight plus some Ďbitsí, Iím musing over any positives or negatives using the Longflap might have over a rack bag. Iíve already got the 4 panniers plus bar bag arrangement.
Any gut responses gratefully received. 😊

mickeg

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Re: Saddle bag / Rack bag
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2022, 01:24:26 PM »
Depending on how high your saddle (specifically the saddle loops for the saddle bag straps) is above your panniers, you might not need much support under the bag.

Nelson Longflap in the photo.  It sits nicely on the panniers for support.

Ortlieb Backrollers on a Tubus Logo EVO rack in the photo.  It is best if your panniers are loaded equally so that the right and left are equal in height.  You might need a longer strap for the seatpost strap.  Some wider racks or some panniers might put the panniers too far apart to provide much support for the Carradice bag.  I have a Surly rack and that puts the panniers pretty far apart and does not support a Carradice bag very well.

I have commented in other threads that I put a piece of Coroplast in some of my bags to act as a stiffener, that includes the Nelson Longflap, so it does not sag in the middle.

Second photo shows a piece of Coroplast (white) in a Carradice Pendle so you see what I am talking about, it is loose, not attached to the bag.  I put several parallel creases in it first so that it has a U shape.  Initially I tried paper cardboard which worked well enough that I decided to make a more permanent addition to my bag.

The negatives are that if I use up all my food and no longer need the Carradice bag, I can't fold it up and shove it into a pannier.  But if you will always have enough gear that you need the saddle bag, that is not an issue.  I only mention it because on two of my tours I did not have a bag on top of my rear rack at the end of the trip when all the food had been eaten.  Another point, it takes longer each morning to fiddle with the leather loops to attach the Carradice bag than it would a dry bag onto the rear rack.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2022, 01:31:01 PM by mickeg »

UKTony

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Re: Saddle bag / Rack bag
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2022, 02:44:40 PM »
If one is already loaded with four panniers and a bar bag, of your two options I think Iíd go for the traditional saddle bag which, unlike a rack bag, would help distribute some of the weight youíre carrying between the axles.

Another alternative is to go for something much less heavier and more flexible to use like a heavy duty dry bag, about 13 litre,

https://www.ortlieb.com/uk_en/dry-bag-pd350+K4452

 strapped to the top of the rear rack. When not in use this would easily stash away in one of the pannier bags. Another option would be a lightweight dry bag with built in shoulder straps so you could also use it off the bike on day walks.

UKTony

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Re: Saddle bag / Rack bag
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2022, 03:09:17 PM »
Another option would be a lightweight dry bag with built in shoulder straps so you could also use it off the bike on day walks.

Not suggesting itís worn whilst riding, but strapped to rear rack when you need it for food etc. and stashed away when not in use. Companies like exped, aquapac an£ I think Ortlieb probably do small capacity dry bag rucksacks.



in4

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Re: Saddle bag / Rack bag
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2022, 07:24:47 PM »
Brilliant replies, thank you.
Being able to fold a dry bag away when not being used is certainly a plus.
Iíd initially only thought of placing a piece of coroplast in the longflapís bottom. The U-shape option seems a much better idea.
Iím using a Thorn rear rack and a pair of Carradice Super Cís so will obviously check 🤞 the longflap sits a-top the panniers. Iím lucky to have a pair of Altura Orkneys as an alternative. Theyíre a bit smaller than the Super Cís and sit a little higher on the rack.
Also avoiding too much capacity syndrome!
 

« Last Edit: May 06, 2022, 08:16:38 PM by in4 »

mickeg

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Re: Saddle bag / Rack bag
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2022, 07:59:43 PM »
Where I brought a dry bag along that was not a cycling type bag, I used an elastic net to attach it.

This one in the first photo was 16 liter in volume when full, loaded from the end.  The second photo, that one was about 20 liters and was a side loading bag.

 

in4

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Re: Saddle bag / Rack bag
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2022, 08:09:10 AM »
I found a cargo net.

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/carriers-racks/delta-cargo-net-4-hook-version/

Öand already have a great dry bag. 🤔

Very appealing, flexible option.

UKTony

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Re: Saddle bag / Rack bag
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2022, 07:12:18 AM »
Good man 🙂
Coincidentally, saw this set up last week on a Specialized Crosstrail though didnít see the rider. Thereís what looks like a fuel bottle so one assumes thereís camping gear in the luggage.
Best wishes for your trip and hope the choices work well.

mickeg

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Re: Saddle bag / Rack bag
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2022, 09:08:09 AM »
Those Super C panniers looked wet, and your Brooks looked like it lacked a rain cover.  Hint, hint.

in4

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Re: Saddle bag / Rack bag
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2022, 09:26:58 AM »
No 1 Sleuth of the  day 🥇  😊
Iíd just demounted under the shelter of a medieval church porch. Noah floated past shortly after 🌧 😂   
« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 09:47:06 AM by in4 »

il padrone

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Re: Saddle bag / Rack bag
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2022, 05:55:43 AM »
Companies like exped, aquapac an£ I think Ortlieb probably do small capacity dry bag rucksacks.

I use an Ortlieb dry bag (30 litres) mostly for my tent and sleeping mat. I also have the dry bag/rucksack, but it is enormous at 59 litres. Can be handy but I have really hardly ever used it as a rucksack, I carry a small lightweight folding backpack for minor shopping and day-hikes on tours.

il padrone

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Re: Saddle bag / Rack bag
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2022, 06:17:24 AM »
The bike loads.

Andre Jute

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Re: Saddle bag / Rack bag
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2022, 01:53:24 PM »
Re the Coroplast, I have access to plenty as my wife, a flower arranger, uses it for making backboards to drape, etc. But my problem, carrying painting gear, food and water on day trips is solved in my low-crime area by the Basil Cardiff pannier baskets, which are open topped, not suitable for tourers who don't know what they will find when they arrive.

However I need space for the usual small valuables like wallet, camera, permanent small watercolour kit (postcard size), which is currently served by the tiny "panniers" on the sides of German-made (Topeak, probably) rack top bag the man purpose of which is to hold the huge battery for the bike's electric motor.

Before this I used ladies' large leather bags tied to the saddle across the bike or lengthwise on the rack, usually with their own straps. These bags needed stiffening on the bottom and shaping around the side or they'd sag -- ugly! -- which isn't good for fine leather and rather spoils the look of the bike. For this at first I used Coroplast, but I was soon fed up with the space the stuff took, and its stubborn refusal to shape itself without considerable advance planning and work. The solution came from my sketchbook practice.

The way I make a sketchbook is to buy a cheap display book, rip out the display sheets and throw them away, and cut the semi-stiff thin P-something cover to size. My sketchbooks are not sewn, the sections (technical term for a large sheet folded into smaller ones in the immediately pre-sewn stage) are just held into the existing spine of the cut-down display book by tooth floss cord from the chemist, because it is thin and strong and pre-waxed and immediately available, which is not "sewn" but simply knotted around the P-something's semi-stiff plastic spine. The made book is then slipped into a reusable leather slipcase to look smart, and not fixed in there either, just held by the inner flaps, loose to slide from side to side though cut more closely to size up and down for technical en plein air painting reasons. The inner books don't even have to be made very neatly because the outer leather slipcases designed by couturiers hide rough work and slip-ups; other painters are always oohing and aching over my sketchbooks. These books have amazing articulation (important to get a flat surface across the fold or even on a single page to paint on), and are very durable.

So, since I already had some large display books bought at the pound shop for making large sketchbook inner covers, as above, I tried this thin, stiff for practical purposes, lasting, material as bottom and inner side surrounds on the smart bags made in relatively thin leather which were permanently on the bike. This worked brilliantly for years until I needed that space for the bigger battery.

The next question that arises is: Can the installation be made as neat as the one Mickeg shows in Coroplast, specifically as regards folds pre-scored into the stiffener. And the answer is yes, it can. The neatest folds will need either a wheelie on a rotary knife or guillotine to cut a dashed line as a hint where it should bend, or a very shallow V-cutter to remove some material, or a hot knife attachment to your soldering iron to score a line by heat. In my sketchbooks, though I have all the equipment mentioned, I don't bother: I use the excellent scores in the commercial production and when I want a thicker or thinner book than the original spine of the display book, I cut through the middle of the spine and remove or staple or glue in a flat piece to make the width desired, thus reusing the production folds.

On my bike I don't even go to that bother. I cut a flat piece to size for the bottom of the bag, then cut a piece to height and length to form a vertical space with the unfixed ends overlapping for articulation, and let the weight of the contents push the P-something into shape. The bottom and the sides are not attached to each other either. It's admittedly rougher than Mickeg's tidy work, but very likely more flexible in packing* and definitely more reshapable out on the road. And even when not maxed out with custom-fitted folds, the amount of space recovered over Coroplast is obvious and well worth having.

*I once wanted to carry a camera with a long lens crosswise in the bag surrounded by all kinds of other stuff that wouldn't be damaged and would protect the lens but the camera and lens were too long and I didn't want to split them because then they would have to be cased, for sure, and go in a car or on their straps across me. What I did was cut a round hole in the saddlebag stiffening for the lens, put the camera body between the outside leather of the bag and the stiffening, with the lens through the hole into the bag, and then simply shoved my sketchbook between the LCD on the back of the camera and the leather of the bag to protect the electronics from being bashed. Worked well. A flat piece of the P-something over the LCD would have made a neater package but the party was ready to ride at my door when I discovered the camera, which was the point of the expedition, wouldn't fit in its least exposed position, and I was damned if I would run up four floors to fetch either another piece of the P-something or the clumsy cases from my study, and wear the hefty thing (yeah, I know, I should have bought the Olympus or Pentax gear instead of the Nikon) around my neck for hours. So, out came my trusty camping knife, spoon and fork folder, and a suitable hole was cut on the spot. Some people who were on that ride are still under the impression that I'm quite handy with tools -- not so; I'm just a lateral thinker, and like most here, I prefer orderly planning ahead to bodging under pressure.

mickeg

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Re: Saddle bag / Rack bag
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2022, 01:03:47 AM »
...
I use an Ortlieb dry bag (30 litres) mostly for my tent and sleeping mat. I also have the dry bag/rucksack, but it is enormous at 59 litres. Can be handy but I have really hardly ever used it as a rucksack, I carry a small lightweight folding backpack for minor shopping and day-hikes on tours.

If you are using the Rack Pack duffle, I recently learned that I was not using the buckles correctly.  This explains it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtxsoOa2h48

And of course if you want to carry a 115 liter dry bag rucksack, SealLine makes a nice one, I used one for checked luggage.  It is the orange bag.  Because it is air tight, I put some fabric in the roll closure so air can get in and out when in an airplane hold.


il padrone

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Re: Saddle bag / Rack bag
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2022, 02:55:57 PM »
Quote
If you are using the Rack Pack duffle, I recently learned that I was not using the buckles correctly

No, it is not the rack duffle that I have, but the X-plorer. Very big and capable to carry gear, but overkill.

https://www.wildernessshop.com.au/products/ortlieb-x-plorer-59l
« Last Edit: August 08, 2022, 02:57:50 PM by il padrone »