Author Topic: Submerged  (Read 1825 times)

KDean

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Submerged
« on: October 15, 2021, 10:27:41 AM »
What should you do if you do get it submerged accidentally I've gone into what turned out to be very deep puddles several times .

PH

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Re: Submerged
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2021, 11:10:52 AM »
What I do, is an oil change.
Whether that's really required I don't know, but if you've bought oil in a sensible quantity, it costs little and is a simple job.

mickeg

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Re: Submerged
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2021, 01:03:37 PM »
What should you do if you do get it submerged accidentally I've gone into what turned out to be very deep puddles several times .

Why would you go into a puddle that deep without lifting your bike high enough to avoid water in the hubs, bottom bracket, frame tubes, etc?

I think the last time I rolled my bike into water that deep was when my age was one digit.

KDean

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Re: Submerged
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2021, 05:29:08 PM »
How did you know the puddle was that deep until you were in it ?

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Submerged
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2021, 06:05:57 PM »
How did you know the puddle was that deep until you were in it ?

Very true.
There are things we know and things we don't know.
And things we think we know but don't know.

And puddles.
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

JohnR

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Re: Submerged
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2021, 06:15:59 PM »
Would water have time to get into the hub if it's submerged for a few seconds?

mickeg

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Re: Submerged
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2021, 08:22:06 PM »
Is there any reason to want to find out how susceptible a hub is to water ingress? 

I have a camera that is rated for up to 45 feet of water depth, but I have no desire to find out if it is that waterproof.  I bought it to have a camera that I could use on rainy days.

If it is a puddle, why not go around it?  Is it that important to go through it?

The only time that I have gone on a trip where fording a stream was on my list of things that may occur, I considered carrying a trekking pole for extra balance if I walked across first to assess the stream.  Decided to leave the trekking pole home. But I did bring neoprene socks made from the same material that scuba diver wet suits are made from, and sandals.  Did not need to ford any streams on that trip.  But I can't imagine why anyone would want to risk a Rohloff and in my case also risking a dynohub on a stream crossing when it would only take a few minutes first to assess how deep it is.


Danneaux

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Re: Submerged
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2021, 09:37:48 PM »
I have occasionally needed to ford streams while on-tour with my Nomad. My preferred method is to first walk out into the stream using my Click-Stand as a sounding pole. If it is not too deep (I don't swim), I return for my bags and ferry them across to the far side then return for the bike, which I carry over one shoulder (water has to be shallow enough the pedals and hubs do not get wet when I do this) and reassemble the lot on the other side. 

Because some  streams in the areas I ride arise from thermal springs that can be boiling hot, I also check the temperature before and as I proceed.

If I got the hub submerged, I would immediately change the oil using the spare kit I always carry.

That said, it can be easy to get caught out. I live a short block from the bike paths that run along the banks of the Willamette River and these paths frequently flood in winter when the local reservoirs used for flood control are drained down in anticipation of heavy rains. In the attached photo, the "break" between dry portions is actually about 1.25m deep...something one would never guess at the entry. You can imagine the surprise at night. Similarly, I once ran into such heavy flooding along the Danube I was unable to go into Vienna and had to detour >30kms to avoid floodwater ("Hochwasser") that was often a meter deep according to my sounding efforts.

Sympathy and empathy your way; I would suggest a drain-and-refill of your Rohloff hub's oil ASAP.

Best,

Dan.

martinf

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Re: Submerged
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2021, 07:50:10 AM »
That said, it can be easy to get caught out.

Yes. I got caught out on my first reasonably long ride after a lockdown period this spring. An ordinary looking, rather muddy puddle on a bicycle track, but when I rode through water got up to the bottom of the chainring, so pedals, chain, shoes and feet were soaked.

Luckily not hubs and bottom bracket.

Pedals were a sealed type, so I didn't do anything about them, so far they are OK. But I thoroughly cleaned and lubed the chain when I got home. I have since fitted a Chainglider to this bike, not for puddles as it wouldn't protect against that, rather for the sand I picked up on a dune trail earlier in the ride.

Andre Jute

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Re: Submerged
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2021, 12:19:54 PM »
But I can't imagine why anyone would want to risk a Rohloff and in my case also risking a dynohub on a stream crossing when it would only take a few minutes first to assess how deep it is.

I ride on narrow lanes, often only one car wide, with the ditch or even a stream right next to the edge of the tarmac. I do it for peace of mind, to avoid speeding trucks and cars on roads quite unsuitable for bicyclists. (The disciples of John "Take the lane" Forester might note that a police superintendent who used to ride with me was killed by a truck while cycling on a road onto which I refused to accompany him. To my mind, that's all the evidence -- and more -- required to label a road as dangerous.) But in the harvest season even my small lanes have huge self-powered harvesters dashing from field to field to get the harvest in and hay-bales rolled before the rain falls again. These machines, with 4ft long rows of spikes out the front, overhang the ditches and are capable of at least 35mph.
https://farmingvideos.co.uk/video/first-kind-introducing-zr5-self-propelled-baler-vermeer-agriculture-equipment/
The rest of the year I expect the people on these lanes to wait patiently behind my bike until there's a driveway or an even smaller side-lane for me to pull into to let them by. But in the harvest season, to reward them for their patience, I ride in the rain when the harvesters stop because a wet harvest rots, or if I get caught out in a lane when the sun shines and they're rushing for the next field, jump into the ditch and hold my bike above my head. Or I used to; I'm not that strong any more. So I just stay off the lanes, or stop by the contractor's van parked at crossroads where they can stop and redirect motor car traffic, and normally have a navigator/bookkeeper in place too, and ask in which direction they're moving so I can ride in the opposite direction.

Here it's generally pretty obvious how deep water is. At fords water would reach the hubs on a bicycle with 26in and bigger wheels only in floods, themselves pretty obvious. I'd be more worried about shallower water on a sunken area of tarmac being hit at speed and spraying with some force to a much higher level than a bicycle hub. We have just such a place on a road we ride a few times a year. (We know all these sunken places on blacktop roads because in the black ice season they can put you down.) Floods or heavy rain leaves this area with three or four inches of standing water and if we hit it with even modest speed it sprays everywhere, enough volume and force of water to soak you through unless you're wearing wetproofs, which we don't normally except as windbreakers in the cold season. It's such a nuisance that in the appropriate seasons we give that road a miss. Of course, on a tour the cyclist will not know that such an innocuous-appearing piece of road can cause an hour of nuisance in changing the oil out of schedule, or the irritation of being soaked on an otherwise sunny day.

I read Martin's and Dan's examples above and am grateful to live in a place so long civilized that one can know all the places where water gathers to expense- or nuisance-making levels. Heh-heh. Actually, we have a riverside path on one side of the river that right here in town is no longer bikeable because dredging work on the river left it with a gradually deepening dip that would be over hub height in the middle when the river rises over it; no great loss as in the work the path also lost its exit, so goes nowhere, whereas the ride on the opposite bank of the river was widened and improved and led through a park and playground (with concrete bicycle trick ramps!) to provide a shortcut out of town.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2021, 12:38:42 PM by Andre Jute »

Danneaux

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Re: Submerged
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2021, 02:11:06 PM »
Quote
...on the opposite bank of the river was widened and improved and led through a park and playground (with concrete bicycle trick ramps!) to provide a shortcut out of town.
I actually can picture you and the Kranich on the concrete bicycle trick ramps, Andre!  ;D

All the best,

Dan.

PH

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Re: Submerged
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2021, 09:24:59 PM »
Mine have ben wet enough for me to consider an early oil change maybe five times in twenty years, flood water, a couple of fords, dropping it in one, wading across a river, flooded campsite. Not once did anything that looked like an oil/water mix come out, but as I said earlier an oil change is no bib deal, why wouldn't you.

KDean

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Re: Submerged
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2021, 01:57:37 PM »
I've just noticed that in the manual it states that the Rohloff  shouldn't be on a bike rack & driven for long periods  in the rain  ?  My last long ride had 3 days of heavy consistent rain ( I didn't have my Nomad then)  I thought  this was supposed to be a all weather system ?

UKTony

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Re: Submerged
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2021, 04:30:48 PM »

mickeg

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Re: Submerged
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2021, 05:29:31 PM »
I've just noticed that in the manual it states that the Rohloff  shouldn't be on a bike rack & driven for long periods  in the rain  ?  My last long ride had 3 days of heavy consistent rain ( I didn't have my Nomad then)  I thought  this was supposed to be a all weather system ?

I would not worry that much about having your bike on the back of a car or truck on a rainy day.  The thick spokes in the first photo are the ones that are covered in dirty ice after a long drive through heavy snow.  The yellow bike is my Nomad Mk II.  But the tire spray from the Jeep left a lot of road grime on the back of the bike.  The chain probably had a shorter lifespan after that.

I think the bigger hazard on a long drive is the wind if you have fenders (mudguards) on the bike.  The fender on the back of my Sherpa vibrated for a couple days of highway speed driving, the vibration cracked the fender mount on both sides.  Second photo.  For my tour of a couple weeks with the cracked bracket, I bent the stays outwards to get rid of the sound of the stays clatterign against the cracked bracket when the stays were no longer attached to the bracket.  I was fortunate that the manufacturer mailed me a new bracket at no cost.