Author Topic: Surly bike range culled  (Read 1178 times)

Mike Ayling

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Surly bike range culled
« on: September 11, 2021, 11:16:45 PM »
Following Thorn's example Surly has culled its range.

ECR
Long Haul Trucker (Disc Trucker continues to be made)
Pack Rat
Pugsley
Troll
Big Fat Dummy

Mike

PH

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Re: Surly bike range culled
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2021, 09:43:20 PM »
It's an odd comparison, not just the size of their ranges but also the volumes and intended market. 
That aside - How many models have Surly introduced in recent years?  Wednesday, Midnight Special, Bridge Club, Ice Cream Truck, Lowside... I don't think any of those have been around long.
And what of Thorn?  The Raven and Sherpa have gone, but the MKIII Nomad is different enough from the MKII to be considered a completely new model, just sharing the name (And heritage).  Time will tell if the one versatile model is a true replacement for three, I don't know enough about it to have an opinion.  Maybe they have other models in the pipeline, or did, the pandemic has put lots of people's plans on hold, if you can't meet demand for what you do, there's little point trying to do more! There was an intriguing 29'er style bike for sale a while back, so obviously they've been trying things out. And what about E-bikes? It's the largest growing sector, it does seem to favour the bigger players, but again prototypes show it's been looked at.
Who knows?  Those who do are unlikely to tell us ;)     

WorldTourer

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Re: Surly bike range culled
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2021, 10:14:23 PM »
The culling of the Long Haul Trucker and the Troll is mainly down to 26" wheels being seen as antiquated. I don’t think QBP would have got rid of these framesets unless they were getting strong signals from other manufacturers that they would be gradually winding down their production of quality 26" tires and rims.

In the case of the Troll, I greatly benefitted from it being discontinued. One bike shop immediately discounted its remaining Troll frames. However, the Troll frame will also fit 650B wheel just fine (never officially endorsed by Surly, but true nonetheless) and I could help a friend build up her first touring bike cheaply.

PH

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Re: Surly bike range culled
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2021, 10:31:27 PM »
The culling of the Long Haul Trucker and the Troll is mainly down to 26" wheels being seen as antiquated.
Certainly that's part of it, but I'm not sure it's the main reason. I think largely there'd simply become too much overlap.  Then in the case of the LHT I think the main reason would be the popularity of disc brakes. If anything, I'm surprised the Crosscheck is still offered. Among Surly fans there's also an opinion voiced that the Disc Trucker has lost some of it's expedition credibility. Though IMO there's other bikes in their range which can fulfil that role better.   
« Last Edit: September 13, 2021, 10:33:36 PM by PH »

Mike Ayling

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Re: Surly bike range culled
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2021, 01:15:43 AM »
The culling of the Long Haul Trucker and the Troll is mainly down to 26" wheels being seen as antiquated. I don’t think QBP would have got rid of these framesets unless they were getting strong signals from other manufacturers that they would be gradually winding down their production of quality 26" tires and rims.

In the case of the Troll, I greatly benefitted from it being discontinued. One bike shop immediately discounted its remaining Troll frames. However, the Troll frame will also fit 650B wheel just fine (never officially endorsed by Surly, but true nonetheless) and I could help a friend build up her first touring bike cheaply.
When I got my Trucker in 2007 the smaller frames came with 559 wheels and the larger ones with 622. They could have gone to 584 as Thorn has done but I think it was the lack of appetite for rim brakes that did it. You can still get a disc trucker.

Mike

mickeg

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Re: Surly bike range culled
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2021, 09:37:12 PM »
In 2007, 650b (584) was not yet a "thing", and there were not many good tires that were readily available in that size in bike shops. 

In the 1980s, I put an old 650b bike in storage, as I was unable to find good tires to put on it in USA.  Only recently have I dug that bike out and put some tires on it now that bike shops carry the size in inventory.


Pavel

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Re: Surly bike range culled
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2021, 02:11:57 AM »
One of the problems of Surly as I see it, is that they are rather faddish. 

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Surly bike range culled
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2021, 08:20:06 AM »
Faddish?
Intensely fashionable for a short time?
And a problem?
Some may say that fashion contributes to development/ progress.

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PH

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Re: Surly bike range culled
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2021, 08:54:25 PM »
One of the problems of Surly as I see it, is that they are rather faddish.
I'd have used the word niche rather than faddish but I know what you mean.
What they have managed to do is sell niche product to a mass market, I'm sure somewhere they'll be part of a business studies syllabus.
Their making was probably the LHT, was anyone else in the US offering a stock steel, fairly traditional tourer when it launched in 2004?  Apart for maybe Trek. I read someone in the US saying if you typed "Touring bike" into Google the first 5 hits would be Surly LHT'ers, maybe that's no longer the case and one of the reasons it was dropped.
Then they seem to have popularised the idea of off road touring, yes I know it's something people have always done, but it hasn't always been possible to buy an OTP bike designed for it from any mainstream dealer.
Then this whole fat bike thing, dismissed by many (Including me) as a fad, still going strong a decade later.  I admit I still don't get it, but then...
Have they had any real failures?  Bikes released that flopped and were withdrawn after short production?  I can't think of any, though they may have passed me by.

Moronic

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Re: Surly bike range culled
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2021, 11:37:56 AM »
I find it very funny that Surly has succeeded with the tagline "Fatties fit fine".

The literal implication is that their bikes are overbuilt and therefore rough on non-fatties. I can't think of anything else it could mean if it is a statement about how their products are different from others.

But the general market is likely ignorant enough to read the statement as a promise of ruggedness and versatility. Hence it supports their branding and raises questions only for the cognoscenti who they might not get anyway.

And of course it does differentiate them notionally from brands that emphasise low weight and high performance.

Danneaux

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Re: Surly bike range culled
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2021, 03:01:53 PM »
Quote
I find it very funny that Surly has succeeded with the tagline "Fatties fit fine".

According to Surly's written and video blogs, the phrase "Fatties Fit Fine" refers to their core design goal of designing frames with chainstay and fork clearances that will easily accommodate large volume (wide, high profile) tires for greatest versatility and comfort.

See: https://youtu.be/BFrtAl7NLFo

Best,

Dan.

WorldTourer

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Re: Surly bike range culled
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2021, 03:02:16 PM »
I find it very funny that Surly has succeeded with the tagline "Fatties fit fine". The literal implication is that their bikes are overbuilt and therefore rough on non-fatties. I can't think of anything else it could mean if it is a statement about how their products are different from others.

I have always interpreted that slogan, seen on the Long Haul Trucker, as specifying that these frames don't have the annoying limitations that other touring frames have. The ex-wife’s Thorn Sherpa is a decent frame, for example, but she regrets being able to put no more than 1.75" tires plus fenders on it, when a LHT can manage 2.00" or 2.15" tires just fine.

Wait, did you think it was referring to fat people? That honestly never even came into my mind. I mean, it’s obvious that in the present-day American marketplace and sociopolitical climate, a company – even one who adopts surly language as part of its distinct branding – could never refer to lardos as such. They’d be castigated for "fat-shaming". So, clearly "fatties" on there is not referring to people.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 03:12:23 PM by WorldTourer »

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Surly bike range culled
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2021, 05:12:59 PM »
Fatties fit fine.
I'll believe it was genuinely intended as Dan says.
But we live in strange times.
Terms can so easily be misconstrued.
Over here a coffee company recently ran a tag line asking customers to ' flick the bean'.

It ran for a few weeks before someone somewhere had it pulled due to a dubious meaning.

Let's give folks the benefit of the doubt.

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Moronic

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Re: Surly bike range culled
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2021, 12:51:47 PM »
Thanks all for the education. Yes I did see the slogan as referencing overweight people, and I refuse to believe that Surly did not recognise that their slogan invited that inference.

Who refers to plus sized tyres as fatties? Okay maybe those up with the latest jargon. Which would comprise a small subset of people considering a Surly purchase.

Dunno whether to rate it as clever or appallingly cynical. Nevertheless I'm happy if Surlys ride well for slim people, as their bikes do look real-world competent by comparison with most of the market.

Andre Jute

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Re: Surly bike range culled
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2021, 06:20:06 PM »
Who refers to plus sized tyres as fatties?

Not as "fatties" because I don't speak slang, but I certainly refer to "fat tyres" because the description fits, and others on the forum referred to "fat bikes" when those snow-bikes first appeared. And "fat tackies" for fat tyres by way of grippy tennis shoes probably earned an entry in a few dictionaries of slang.

I also agree with Moronic that the Surly lot, or at the very least their advertising agents, were aware of the double entendre in "fatties fit fine". Marketing and advertising men are generally very intelligent -- they have to be to survive in such a ratmill. In the days before cancel culture for thought crimes, the cost of causing their client's brand to stand out, which is their aim, was often deniability. "Fatties fit fine" in bicycles has such brilliant deniability, I would bet money a bunch of Ivy Leaguers sat around a table and deliberately thought it up, and then slapped each others' backs about how deniable it was. I spent most of my twenties in meetings like that. Of course, we also caused a whole generation of dentists to play more golf by making a tube of toothpaste so cheap that even poor people could afford it.