Author Topic: Handlebar choice?  (Read 3758 times)

Dave B

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Handlebar choice?
« on: February 28, 2021, 08:37:50 pm »
Hi, i am considering changing my handlebars on  my Thorn Nomad. Currently running Thorn flat style bars. I would like to have a more upright riding position. Could anyone suggest handlebars that allow this. Thanks

JohnR

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Re: Handlebar choice?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2021, 09:43:33 pm »
I'm using Humpert Ergotec AHS handlebars similar to these https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/handlebars/510-humpert-ahs-basic-sport-handlebars-cw-comfort-barends-254mm-clamp-black/ (there are several styles of the AHS bars) on my Mercury. I fitted a shorter ahead stem than that the bike came with but the result is that I have two basic hand positions: (a) a a more upright primary position with hands on the back part (where I've replaced the foam with proper grips) where the controls are mounted and (b) hands on the front parts of the bars to give a more streamlined position. I think I tried more than one ahead stem length before I came to what was, overall, the most comfortable setting.

If you are interested I can provide a photo. However, you might want to start by fitting a shorter ahead stem and keeping your current handlebars.

Dave B

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Re: Handlebar choice?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2021, 10:26:44 pm »
Thanks for the advice. I will certainly consider that option. I take it that’s these bars will accommodate normal brake levers and a rohloff gear shifter? Thanks again

martinf

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Re: Handlebar choice?
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2021, 06:12:56 am »
My wife uses these bars on her large-wheel bikes, but upside down (high position) compared to the photo:

https://www.fixie75.com/en/shop/parts/handlebar/fixie75/handlebar-blb-fubar-silver/

In the high position they are what I call "sit up and beg" handlebars.

Compared to flat bars they move the hand position to the rear and up, so with the same stem reach is shorter and your back is straighter. They also change the orientation of your wrists.

I have a set of similar but slightly wider bars on the large visitor bike that I sometimes use, on which I find the wrist orientation more comfortable than the flat bars I have on one of my bikes, but the position of my back with these "sit up and beg" bars is too upright for long rides at the present time (64 years old).

The Thorn "comfort bar" option would also move the hand position up, but less to the rear and with these bars the wrist orientation is in between flat and "sit up and beg" bars.

My current preferred handlebar choice for longer rides is compact drop bars, on which I mainly use the hoods. Wrist orientation in this position is similar to "sit up and beg" bars but much further forwards, so my back is at about 45°. On my old utility bike with flat bars I achieve roughly the same position with long bar ends.

______________________________

The advantage of drops for me is the multiple hand positions that allow changes on long rides or for different situations:

- riding on the tops (like a narrow flat bar) for a more upright position in traffic to see over the tops of cars. Also useful for increasing wind resistance on steep twisty descents. I have repeater brake levers for safety when using this position.
- on the hoods (most of the time). Easy access to the main brake levers.
- on the drops. For headwinds and if I want to try going faster. Best grip on the main brake levers.
- on the hooks. For really strong headwinds when there isn't much traffic, as I have to move my hands to use the brakes.

PH

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Re: Handlebar choice?
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2021, 09:13:50 am »
Are you sure changing the bars rather than the height and reach of the current ones is the right way to go? 
I have no specific recommendations, I like the Ergon GP5 for the damping and variety of positions, but I've never disliked any bar I've had.  If I get the riding position spot on, the bar is just somewhere to rest the hands and stick the controls. 

JohnR

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Re: Handlebar choice?
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2021, 11:31:26 am »
Thanks for the advice. I will certainly consider that option. I take it that’s these bars will accommodate normal brake levers and a rohloff gear shifter? Thanks again
Here's a photo of some well-loaded AHS handlebars including the Rohloff shifter. The U-shaped ends unclamp to make it easy to fit the controls and there are two ways to adjust the geometry: The straightish section can be rotated in the clamp on the ahead stem and the ends can be rotated. I've just fitted Ergon GP1L grips and did have to shorten them a little to get everything to fit but my hands are very happy with the result.

The bike (a Thorn ex-demo) came with a 110mm ahead stem but the current stem is 80mm. 

Edit: Another way to get a more upright position is to move the saddle forwards which can be done by (a) sliding the saddle forwards on its rails and (b) changing the seatpost to one with less setback. However, saddle adjustments will affect KOPS (if you believe in it and have positioned the saddle accordingly).
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 05:22:16 pm by JohnR »

Andre Jute

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Re: Handlebar choice?
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2021, 06:00:16 pm »
I sit as upright as possible. You don't actually want to sit totally upright, because then every bump in the road is transmitted straight up your spine.

For a maximum upright position and down to a semi-sporting position, the best bars with the most ergonomic grips is North Road bars, which bring the grips around towards you, up, and then angle them downwards so that you're riding with straight wrists. (Well-specified and -fitted drop bars do the same when you're riding on the hoods.) As John R has explained above, you adjust reach length by stem length. But it isn't always necessary, because as your upper body moves more vertical and your hands thus move backwards, the North Road Bars also reach backward to meet where your hands fall in the new body posture.

Start by putting your saddle in exactly the optimum position in relation to the pedals because sitting upright will lose some power relative to drops, or require more power because of adverse aerodynamics compared to a flat back. Then take the position in which your back will be comfortable over the long term and do not compromise it by one millimetre -- there is a combination of stem and North Road Bar that will match your preferred posture to the steering tube.

Nor is your position now fixed forever. If you choose the North Road Bars right first time, and don't make any extreme installation decisions when you're doing it for the first time, the whole of your body on the bike and the bars and stem operate like a pantograph, so that within reason there is a range of positions possible without further investment.

It's less difficult to get a good fit than it seems. I did it three times in a row by mail to countries two sea passages and several borders from where I live -- after several times failing to do it with local LBSs...

Ask in the first instance to see a set of Uno Kalloy North Road Bars. They come fitted to a lot of Taiwan-made bikes, and are then taken off by LBSs to "add value" by fitting more expensive bars, so many LBSs have a pile out the back. They're also a good value if you have to buy new. They work with the Uno Kalloy angle adjustable stem with a lever for toolless changes on the road -- an added comfort function I discovered on my Gazelle Toulouse which came with Gazelle's own proprietary toolless adjustable stem. Uno Kalloy North Road Bars are desirable because they're good, they have long grips that you're supposed to saw to size yourself, and if they haven't been sawn short they're ideal for Rohloff rotary controls right under your thumb without lifting your hand from the grip. They're available in aluminium and steel; I like the steel ones because it is a pain to replace the ali ones every five years or whatever.

The more upright you sit, the wider your saddle can/should be, though "wide" is a personal choice. I like the Brooks B73 for a fully upright posture; some others here see no need to go bigger than the Brooks B67.

Good luck with achieving a painless posture on your bike.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 10:02:17 pm by Andre Jute »

Dave B

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Re: Handlebar choice?
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2021, 06:56:15 pm »
Many thanks for such comprehensive advice. I will certainly take heed and look at the suggested bars. I have had couple of episodes of suffering from a bad back, although this is most likely due to a combination of age and poor seating choices off my bike. The purpose of changing bars is to avoid future back related issues, especially when I am permitted to go a long tour again. Thanks again for advice

martinf

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Re: Handlebar choice?
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2021, 08:58:26 pm »
Wife's bike with saddle raised so I can ride it.

The black mark on the seat post is to set her saddle height. She uses a VERY upright riding position.

As André has said, a wider, sprung saddle is a good idea with an upright position. Wife has a Flyer S (in the photo) or a B66S Champion on her large-wheel bikes. These are the same width as a B17, rather narrow for a sprung saddle, but she finds them comfortable. The old B66S Champion is the best of the two, as it has softer springs. 

I put a B67 on the large visitor bike. This is wider than my wife's saddles.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 09:09:10 pm by martinf »

JohnR

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Re: Handlebar choice?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2021, 03:06:30 pm »
Thinking about this question while pedalling today reminded me that we haven't touched on the possibility of raising the current handlebars. A small amount of raising can sometimes be achieved by either flipping over the ahead stem (depending on how it's currently fitted) or using a spacer on the vertical stem or, for more height, using an adjustable ahead stem with a joint in the middle https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/stems/105-zoom-1-18-ahead-adjustable-stem-0plus60-deg-254mm-clamp-black/. Even more raising can be provided by one of these https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/stems/humpert-ahead-stem-raiser-1-18-inch-steerer-to-1-18-inch-stem-black/ while, once I figured out the most comfortable bar position and height, I've fitted one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006QSCWIS as a one-piece solution (not needed on my Mercury but on another bike where the steerer was cut too low for a comfortable position).

I'm not keen on the long curved handlebars. My Pashley Parabike came with those and it felt unwieldy on tight bends with the risk of collision between the bar ends and the knees. Nor do I like too much width across the handlebars as less suitable for manoeuvering through obstacles.

UKTony

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Re: Handlebar choice?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2021, 04:30:57 pm »
Thinking about this question while pedalling today reminded me that we haven't touched on the possibility of raising the current handlebars. A small amount of raising can sometimes be achieved by either flipping over the ahead stem (depending on how it's currently fitted) or using a spacer on the vertical stem

I did exactly this with the flat track bars on my Mk2 Nomad. When new it came with Thorns signature setup - handlebar stem fitted horizontally to top of steerer tube. Apart from aesthetically displeasing after a few years use I felt I needed the bars higher so I flipped the 120mm stem   and played around  with the spacers until I got the smallish change 2 or 3 cm in bar height that was comfortable without stretching the brake cables too much. There’s still about 3cm of fork steerer tube height left if I need to go higher and I could fit a shorter stem.  I also reduced the 580mm bar to 540mm to stand more chance of getting through some of the ‘ gates’ on canal tow paths without stopping 🙂.  I’d post a photo from iPad if I knew how!

Dave B

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Re: Handlebar choice?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2021, 05:25:15 pm »
Thanks for the replies, a may try a shorter stem . I also may swap the saddle , I have a brooks sprung saddle in storage. Thanks for the on going advice.

JohnR

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Re: Handlebar choice?
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2021, 10:29:58 pm »
I’d post a photo from iPad if I knew how!
Click on "Attachments and other options" below the message box. However, you may need to resize a photo to get it below the maximum 512kb image size. Otherwise the system won't accept it.

UKTony

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Re: Handlebar choice?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2021, 08:06:32 am »
Thanks for the advice. Here goes.....