Author Topic: Theft prevention  (Read 2406 times)

martinf

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Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2021, 10:50:14 PM »
£135 for Almax chain and padlock

From what I can gather, this chain takes about 9.5 minutes (approx) to get through with an angle grinder . Itís the 16mm version

Compared to the top of the line Abus D lock which might be grinded through in less than a minute ? Itís seems like a pretty good option

https://www.almax-security-chains.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=55

Too heavy for me. The shortest 0.8 m version weighs about 3.5 kg without padlock.

No lock will prevent theft, they only provide deterrence.

For a very long time, my main lock was a 1 m length of fairly thick chain, bought in the late 1970's, which I encased in an old innertube and combined with a mid-price padlock. This looks reasonably effective, but in practice (I tested) it took me a couple of minutes to saw though a link with a new hacksaw blade (on a bench, so easier than in the field). It would probably take seconds with bolt croppers. Maybe I have been lucky (and careful where I leave the bike), but it has been sufficient theft deterrence for more than 40 years.

I also have a simple and light cable lock, from the early 1970's, which I still use, for very short stops on bikes without frame locks and for locking my pannier bags to the rack on the bike when I leave it parked.

My current main lock is an Abus Granit Plus 470/150HB U lock. I take this on rides with my day bikes if I think I will need to lock the bike (restaurant stop or similar). If I don't plan a stop I carry the lightweight cable lock just in case.

All the family utility and touring bikes have ring-type Abus 5950 NR frame locks. I use these for short stops. The big advantage of a frame lock is the ease of use, without one I would probably not bother locking in some circumstances, and so be vulnerable to an opportunistic theft. For longer stops (supermarket shopping, etc.) and when touring I add the U lock to attach the frame and one wheel to something fixed.

For some situations I add a 2 metre Abus Cobra 10/200 cable as a complement to the U lock. This doesn't have a padlock, it uses either the U lock or the frame lock.

Apart from locks, and, just as important, the choice of where and when to park the bike, the other issue with theft is insurance. In the UK it is still possible to get reasonably cheap insurance included as part of a house insurance policy, so may still be worthwhile. Here in France I worked out that the cost of insurance worked out to the price of a new bike after about 8 years, so I stopped insuring the family bicycles a long time ago. They are still covered by the house insurance if someone steals them from my garage, but I would only get the depreciated value, so not very much, my "new" tourer is now 9 years old.   


ourclarioncall

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Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2021, 01:10:35 AM »
Okay, after more research

It seems the Pewag (American) might be the champion of chains . And prices are cheaper than competitors

They make a 10mm, 12mm and 14mm chain for bikes . Donít think they make heavier duty stuff for motorbikes .

Their 14mm gets a better overall rating than the 16mm chains from both Almax and Pragmasis.

One of the differences is that the links are smaller and you canít put them through each other to shorten the chain. Also the 3 recommended padlocks are about £90 to £100.

https://www.brindleychains.co.uk/collections/pewag-security-chains/products/vkk10x35-security-chain?variant=48500201159

Andre Jute

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Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2021, 05:11:02 AM »
It's interesting to consider the ultimate lock, but you must also consider the psychology of use by the cyclist, and of the thief.

No matter how heavy your lock is, the consensus of experienced tourers is that you cannot leave the bike, locked, exposed for long.

That is why I'm keen on Dutch-style frame locks, which are already on the bike when you want to go somewhere, weigh little, don't require you to get your hands dirty, and can work with a chain or a cable if you insist on backup.

As described upthread, I use a variant, a steering lock, which makes the bike unrideable and very, very unwieldable, dangerous for anyone smaller than me. it weighs nothing extra, in the sense that the stem and handlebars I removed to fit it weighed more than the secure n'lock stem and handlebars. The handlebars also have a cable built-in if a pole is handy. A longer cable, like the handlebar cable, works with the steering lock on a single key.

The inconvenience of a frame lock or a steering lock is fleeting, like leaving and returning to a car. This can never be true with a monstrous chain: you need to assess how long the monstrous chain will remain a novelty you give the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that I can think of dozens of places where a good strong length of chain will itself be a target of theft.

If you then add a cheap but loud alarm to draw attention to the thief, you've given him a very solid message, much more impactful than a chain for which he came prepared with an exposure-to-completion time budget and precisely the right tool. Dan pointed out to me years ago, and I haven't forgotten, that I'd rather the thief lost hope and moved on to an easier target, rather than that he damaged the historic, irreplaceable bike I ride before he decided the theft was taking too long.

I have an Abus Granit X D-lock which fits very tightly around my bike's frame, Rohloff wheel and Big Apples, and a lamppost. I don't carry it. I don't need to. I've successfully psychologically monstered the light fingers here that my bike is broken any time they see it standing with the front wheel pointing in one direction and the handlebars in another.

If you do decide on the big chain, I look forward to your reports on its use, including psychological impact on suspicious characters. If you decide on the systemic approach which has worked for so many of us, in all its variations, let us know that too.

leftpoole

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Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2021, 10:51:39 AM »
Following this thread!
My personal view, is that the bigger the lock, the more visible the cable through wheels etc, the more chance of theft.
Any 'decent' thief will simply cut through the frame to release it. Or in my opinion, if I were a thief (I certainly am not as it happens) I would cut through the fence rail or whatever the cycle is attached to.
Thieves are crafty -clever -and -expert in their field.
I believe Kryptonite have in the past actually employed thieves to advise! Obviously these locks are only worthwhile for a short period of time until the thieves 'catch up' with how to unlock!

Matt2matt2002

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Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2021, 12:55:59 PM »
My friend Keith always travels on local trips with Roger.
Keith has never had his bike stolen or tampered with.
I guess there will be a first time, like most things in life.


Roger is 5 years old.

Roger is a rottweiler.

Not sure of his weight but he tags along quite happily behind Keith.
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

ourclarioncall

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Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #50 on: January 11, 2021, 11:34:46 PM »
😁 I was looking into buying a roger but they are now two or three times the price pre lockdown 🥲

ourclarioncall

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Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #51 on: January 11, 2021, 11:44:49 PM »
Lots of good info, sorry I donít respond to everything, I have 5 kids , one is 1 so Iím always pulled around. Get to jump on here sporadically

One of my thoughts was if I was touring all over the world and doing camping or wild camping, thatís when perhaps a chain thatís at the very least bolt cropper proof might be one of the best options

Iíve accept nothing is angle grinder proof , but still keen on getting a chain the will put up a good fight and maybe even win. Without the chain being too heavy.

Iíve got a good 4 stone or more to lose, so if I dropped my weight , I wouldnít mind carrying a big heavy chain on tour, it would be less than Iím carrying now 😁

The interesting thing about the pewag chains is they are smaller but stronger . Saying that, I think overall there is more chain so itís just as heavy or heavier than bigger chains

Think I would like an alarm to go along with a chain but tech canít always be trusted. I guess the alarms are battery powered?

I havenít looked into alarms or gps tracking yet, just finishing my research on chains/cables/locks

I could buy a huge tent and pull the bike in the tent with me for more peace of mind ? Anyone done that ? But does oil not leak out the rohloff if you lay it on itís side ? Iím thinking if the bike was living on its side for a good part of the day everyday would that have a negative effect ?

ourclarioncall

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Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #52 on: January 11, 2021, 11:45:59 PM »
Anyone used one of the heavier duty chains and padlocks ?

PH

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Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2021, 10:56:00 AM »
If you decide on the systemic approach which has worked for so many of us, in all its variations, let us know that too.
I'm sorry if anyone sees this as nit-picking and I'll make this my last contribution to this thread as I've become repetitive - But you, me, all of us don't know what works.  All the evidence we have is anecdotal, the idea that we have prevented a theft, or facilitated one, assumes we know all the other circumstances that might have contributed and we don't.  The idea that we can treat thieves as some homogenised group and know what they'll do and think and know and have certain tools,  is as unrealistic as treating cyclists the same way.  I see snipped cable locks at the city centre bike stands quite frequently, but not chains and solid locks, so there's anecdotal evidence that anything more than that will deter some. Or does it? The local police tell me they rarely see broken good quality locks, the thieves tend to remove them, maybe because they're evidence of either the theft and/or the method used.
I have anecdotes that show thieves don't steal Rohloffs, I know of two instances where Rohloff bikes have been left behind and cheaper bikes taken in their place.  I've also heard anecdotes about Rohloffs being cut out of the wheels of locked bikes, which shows how desirable they are. What conclusion can we draw from that?  All we can do is decide for ourselves the level of precaution we're prepared to implement, hope that it discourages some (And anything you do will discourage someone) while accepting that nothing we do will stop everyone.
Last anecdote - Friend who rides an upright trike (Custom built, good components) uses the flimsiest of locks. The reasoning - That might be enough to discourage joy riders (Who might not get very far if they haven't ridden one before), it isn't a cycle that could be sold easily, but it'd be worth stripping for parts.  He's locking it in the hope it deters the first two but accepting the risk of the third. 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 10:58:39 AM by PH »

ourclarioncall

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Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2021, 09:32:56 PM »
PH

Thankyou, all good food for thought


ourclarioncall

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Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2021, 09:39:58 PM »
IF , I went the BIG over the top chain option...

Iím thinking the 25mm Almax, the biggest motorbike chain available just now .

How much length do you reckon I would need to get round say a lamp post and a Thorn nomad back wheel and Frame?

Just pondering the idea of buying a chain and getting it cut down to as short a length as possible so as to get maximum angle grinder time , and bring the weight down as much as possible

Some of these chains come in great long lengths so I could potentially take a section off and then resell the rest as a motorbike chain for home use. Or if anybody else likes my idea I could split it up into multiple small sections for other cyclists. Just a train of thought 💭
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 09:41:31 PM by ourclarioncall »

ourclarioncall

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Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2021, 10:47:39 PM »
Here it is, the video weíve all been waiting for

Angle grinder v the big daddy of chains - Almax 25mm

https://youtu.be/5tgOBljvnL8

They also cut the 22mm but they did not cut it from both sides. In this vid they are cutting as best as possible from both sides of the link . Second cut of the link is always faster for scientific reasons to do with heat /pinching/expansion

JohnR

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Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2021, 11:07:34 AM »
Iím thinking the 25mm Almax, the biggest motorbike chain available just now .
The video says it's 1.8kg per link! I think I'd prefer to carry several more conventional bike locks each of which has to be broken or cut.

steve216c

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Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2021, 12:55:01 PM »
What is the point of a good lock that can withstand the worst an angle-grinder can throw at it?

This headline was in the news in Berlin this week. You don't need to read German to understand what has happened when you look at the photos in this daily broadsheet:
https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/neue-masche-von-fahrraddieben-in-berlin-jetzt-werden-eben-die-buegel-geknackt/26783214.html

Kreuzberg is a district in Berlin famous (amongst other things) for May 1st riots every year and for also bikes getting stolen. Theft-proof bike friendly stands earned the name 'Kreuzberger Buegel' (Buegel=strong frame) as the yard stick for the safe communal bike parking in the past years.

The average bike stolen in Berlin has a value of EUR 730. Why would the thieves bother with lower end models when top end bikes are often safely locked on the street with top end locks against 'thief proof' bike stands? An angle-grinder might be too conspicuous in residential areas where the noise alone would attract attention. But why bother with such an effort when the thief proof bike stands can be hacked using a pipe cutter in just 30 seconds. And the thief can merrily walk off with your trusted steed and expensive lock moments later without too much noise drawing attention to the deed.
If only my bike shed were bigger on the inside...

ourclarioncall

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Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2021, 01:02:51 PM »
The weight has an advantage, no need to carry a set of dumbells or hunt for gyms ,  i can use it for a great full body workout while on the road to keep all the muscle I donít yet currently have from atrophying 😄