Author Topic: Theft prevention  (Read 2404 times)

WorldTourer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2021, 04:40:19 PM »
In the 1930s my father used to cycle from Stockwell to Highbury to watch Arsenal play. The bike was left (no bike lock -  was there such a concept then?)  outside the Ground and was always still there after the match.

Theft of unlocked, unattended bicycles in the UK and on the continent is already referred to as a common vexation in literature from the interwar period. It is certainly not a modern problem.

Certainly one could have safely left a bike locked outside with a strong chain until recently. But then the availability of battery-powered angle grinders changed that.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2021, 04:43:26 PM by WorldTourer »

leftpoole

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 290
    • My photographs
Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2021, 04:43:21 PM »
Leftpoole

Wow,

What model of Abus D lock was it ?

And what year would this have been?



Also where do you live ?



Do you think they have learned how to pick these locks then ?
Bournemouth around 1998 I do not live there at present but hope/intend to return when I am able.
The Abus which was at that time the most expensive.
I have been told on more than one occasion, by a Police officer and a Loss adjuster for an Insurance Company, that thieves can unlock some locks in a matter of seconds. Apparently the thieves train up on the last locks! Making tools to circumvent the key!

ourclarioncall

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2021, 05:05:44 PM »
Very interesting

You can see from vids on YouTube that folk can pick the current toughest D locks

But I suppose it doesnít really matter if itís picked, or if itís cut with an angle grinder , it wonít take long

But I am still keen on the Abus granite extreme 59 as it looks like it will defeat all other methods

If Iím spending nearly 4K on a nomad I donít mind £150 for a lock , even if itís just to pop into shops for 2 minutes

ourclarioncall

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2021, 05:11:39 PM »
What would be a good choice to go along with a top of the range D lock?

As in a chain or cable ?

Iím thinking of times when Touring in foreign lands and there is nothing to attach a D lock to, so your think more of using a tree

Any one tried one of these ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Oxford-OF232-Motorcycle-Bike-Revolver-1-8m-Security-Armoured-Cable-Lock-Silver-/193604616129?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292

PH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1149
Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2021, 08:43:30 PM »
But I am still keen on the Abus granite extreme 59 as it looks like it will defeat all other methods
Couple of things - Are you basing that choice on the three year old review you linked to?  Is it still the top dog?  I don't know either, but things do change
Such reviews are always selective, they can't test them all.  Also they test the lock in isolation, that winner was a kg heavier than the lock in 2nd place, I'd be surprised if two locks for the same weight didn't take longer to defeat.
it just comes down to what you feel comfortable with, we can't know the answers, it's all guesswork.  You may have the best lock and never have a bike stolen, but you can't know if that would still have been the case with a lock half it's weight.  Likewise you could have a bike stolen with a lightweight lock but not know that it wouldn't also have been stolen with the best...

JohnR

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2021, 09:36:09 PM »
I was tempted enough by this idea that I've just dug out one I'd had on a bike years ago, not for my Mercury, but the bike I'll often use for errands. Unfortunately it doesn't fit around that bikes big tyres and guards, though I may look for one that does.
Here's the ring lock I put on my Mercury https://www.amazon.co.uk/M-Wave-Unisex-Adult-Chain-Frame/dp/B07ZZMPH7K . There's plenty of clearance for 50mm tyres (the specs say up to 70mm). At the moment the chain is kept at home when I'm going for a short ride and don't expect to stop anywhere. If you don't want the chain then the basic lock is here https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wave-Unisexs-Frame-Black-X-Large/dp/B0777V4NKW . It's fixed to the frame with cable ties through the slots having first put some bits of chopped up old inner tube between the lock and the frame.

That lock doesn't have a security rating but I'm more interested in the deterrence capability. As already noted, a determined thief with the right tools will somehow get round any lock.

Danneaux

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7841
  • reisen statt rasen
Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2021, 12:35:00 AM »
I'm not sure if this helps, but when I did my European double-crossing (Bulgaria-France-Black Sea with sizable detours) in 2014 on the Raven Tour AndyBG so kindly loaned me, I used his Kryptonite Evo-2000 U-lock and a 10mm vinyl-covered cable to secure the bike. I was very "careful", ALWAYS locked it and parked with care and concern and had no problems. I didn't lose a single item to theft or pilferage, but I put that down to my care and generally nice people. ;) In my experience, theft is a generally greater problem in larger places. I felt less comfortable parking the bike in larger places like Belgrade and Bucharest and moreso in small villages.

I only had a couple "concerning" moments. One was at a museum in Romania. A young boy known to be a problem in the area kept hanging around the bike and when one of the staff saw he was there making me uncomfortable about entering, she voluntarily brought a chair and a book outside and read next to the bike while I toured the museum with the docent. Of course the bike was also locked, but I cannot think of better theft prevention!

First photo below shows the bike "fully dressed" at the beginning of my tour at Andy's place. I brought and fitted my own seatpost, stem, chainring, pedals and luggage/contents so the 587S RavenTour fit like my 590M Nomad at home.

Second photo shows the bare bike parked next to my dining bench at a "rustic" restaurant in Romania on a little jaunt I took after unpacking at my lodging near the end of my journey. For this, just the U-lock through the frame and rear wheel were enough to reassure me the bike would not fall victim to a "grab-and-go" theft while I was eating next to it.

I have to and do take much greater precautions here at home. I think the risk depends very much on where you ride, timing and circumstance.

Best,

Dan.

ourclarioncall

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2021, 02:32:06 AM »
Altor SAF is the big daddy at the moment I think , supposed to be resistent to angle grinders

But even that thing is too big for me 😄

Plus I have a bias towards things that are aesthetically pleasing lol

Lockpicking lawyer on YouTube seems to test varieties of different locks /chains /cables. So I would imagine if there is any current champions he will be trying to defeat them.

My other thought was getting 2 of the Abus granite x plus 540 , one for each wheel+frame , not so tough but maybe a better deterrent having two instead of one .

Although lock picking lawyer was speaking about how a good chain is tougher to cut through with an angle grinder than a d lock because they finickity and keep moving around unless held with a pair of pliers , plus they can be dangerous when they snap/shatter. Interesting

Maybe two good chains would be better than two D locks . Also , two chains could be joined together to double the length to put round that giant oak in the African village .

Andre Jute

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3562
Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2021, 03:17:00 AM »
I take a systemic approach to bicycle security. For example, my bike is constructed and assembled to such tight tolerances (1mm) that nothing demounts unless you have first moved other components out of the way in a particular order. That's the key, but before that, I have another barrier, a handlebar lock that unlocks the handlebars from the steering tube and make the appear broken, unrideable, and does in fact make it unrideable. You can read about my system at
n'lock -- bike security by making the bike impossible to ride
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3930.0

ourclarioncall

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2021, 03:24:35 AM »
Ha! Check out this beast lol ,,all 66lbs worth

https://youtu.be/q4MslR-_wG0

ourclarioncall

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2021, 05:07:37 AM »
£135 for Almax chain and padlock

From what I can gather, this chain takes about 9.5 minutes (approx) to get through with an angle grinder . Itís the 16mm version

There is also a 19mm, 22mm and 25mm
Someone got through the 25mm in 14 minutes

Compared to the top of the line Abus D lock which might be grinded through in less than a minute ? Itís seems like a pretty good option

https://www.almax-security-chains.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=55

PH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1149
Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2021, 11:53:59 AM »
A
My other thought was getting 2 of the Abus granite x plus 540 ...
Maybe two good chains would be better than two D locks .
The usual advice for two locks is to make then different, that both increases your options and might make more work for the thief if they need two techniques/tools to beat them.
It's not just the locks, but how you use them, plenty of online advice and vids, yet I frequently see good quality locks underused - D locks with plenty of space round them and chains exposed to the  full jaws of a bolt cutters and where the floor can be used as leverage. It's feasible that you could triple the time taken by optimising the locks potential. And of course what you lock to and where, I once saw a Thorn Rohloff D locked to plastic drainpipe in Birmingham city centre  ::)

ourclarioncall

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2021, 12:22:18 PM »
The plastic drainpipe made me smile 😀

Yeah been watching a bazillion vids on YouTube so picking some good tips on locking methods 👍

ourclarioncall

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2021, 12:33:24 PM »
With these type of chains
https://youtu.be/LFafq-u7wqQ

Is there any chance of damaging your bike ?

Are they too heavy for the likes of a Thorn nomad?

Would there be a certain way you could attach them to the bike ?

I would be considering the 16Ē version which is the size that I think just falls into the category of being impossible to get through with bolt croppers. There are smaller sizes and also bigger sizes that go up in increments of 3mm, all the way up to 25mm

ourclarioncall

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 118
Re: Theft prevention
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2021, 01:35:05 PM »
Oh dear, my 9.5 minute approx was a bit off. I approximated from other vids giving 14 mins for the 25mm and 12.5 mins for the 22mm

He got through this 16mm chain in just over a minute . Perfect conditions kind you

https://youtu.be/SDBRI3cgw1o