Author Topic: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?  (Read 4666 times)

buffet

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Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« on: December 30, 2020, 07:33:36 PM »
I have upgraded my singlespeed MTB to Rohloff recently. On the SS setup I was running Nitto Albatross bars (comfort bars similar to North Road bars, 60deg swept back). I have a feeling that the back sweep of these bars is too much for a gripshift. Does anyone have sone experience with the Rohloff shifter on similar backsweep bars?

Iím now considering some less aggressively backswept bars, such as Jones H bar (45 degrees) or Surly Terminal (35 degrees)

UKTony

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2020, 11:05:56 PM »
Iíve got no experience of this type of bar but would recommend you read pages 17-19 of the Thorn Touring Bike Bible for which thereís a link here

https://www.thorncycles.co.uk/bikes

Their comfort bars for expedition touring have an 18 degree bend.  I would imagine that anything significantly more than that would put your wrists in a very awkward and uncomfortable  position especially for operating the Rohloff Twistshifter.

Andre Jute

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2020, 02:52:15 AM »
I ride with North Road bars on all my bikes. The ones I favour are made by Uno Kalloy in Taiwan, though they carry a lot of expensive proprietary brandnames too. From a thickened section to mount the stem, to each side they sweep upwards and then curve backward to about forty degrees to a longish grip section.

Note that the proper, ergonomic, way to fit North Road bars is with the handgrips pointing down between fifteen and thirty degrees from horizontal, for which the upsweep and the long grip make allowance. You therefore need either a tall steering tube or an angled stem or a combination of the two to make a bike with properly fitted and angled North Road Bars fit you.

Positions with North Road bars can vary from semi-sporting (1) to as near fully upright. North Road bars are the most versatile as well as the most comfortable and most ergonomic bars I know.

Upside down North Road bars make a dashing moustache bar image if your back can handle it. Again, the grips should point downwards, not be horizontal.

Proper OEM North Road bars are supplied with pretty long grips to be sawn to length. It is not smart, ergonomically, for a tourer to rest the palm of his hand near the forefinger on the Rohloff rotary gear control for long days on the road, but for a short-distance credit card tourer, even to one sensitive about stress on his hands like me, it makes no difference, so I have a shorter Brooks leather grip on the right hand side to allow for the Rohloff control mounted inboard in the normal way. Another solution would be to get a piece of tube and fit it on an expanding plug to the end of the handlebar, so that the Rohloff control sits next to your little finger though it would operate in reverse order to the normal inboard mounting.

Those flat handlebars angled about 15 degrees all in one horizontal plane at their ends are not anywhere near as ergonomically sound as North Road bars, but they do look very sporting.

(1) With an adjustable stem like the Gazelle Switch, you can in fact put the handgrips to near vertical and achieve an aerodynamic flat back, that is, a fully sporting position. That's how I made a (truck assisted) personal record of a ton, over 100kph, on a Gazelle commuter bike with mudguards and overcoat protectors.





GamblerGORD649

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2020, 06:42:38 AM »
You have given us no idea what your frame looks like. I now only use three 70d+ sweep bars that are all steel and 47+ years old. The 2 sets of smooth plastic grips are both 47 years old also. I LOVE them. I am sitting more upright every year now. I had ZERO back or knee pains my second tour, 98 days and 3,900 miles. Actually, 2 of the bars had grip flats not long enough. So I got some 7/8" Alu round bar from the metal mart and made a quill like extension. Cut to length, drill a hole thru, put a bolt thru with an 1" sticking out to inset into a drill chuck. Then file and spin lathe the insert half. One I added just 18 mm and the other 47 mm.

Anyway, I've had 3 frames with 3 IGHs. My custom frame has had 2 IGH back wheels > Rohloff14 and  SA XL-RD5w, plus an X-RD3 on an old CCM.
They ALL have been DIY mounted on the Top tube, close to the front. IMO this is by far the best place for them. Impossible to wreck and the cable cannot flop around. The Rohloff shifter is pointed up at an angle to the back. I can use either hand to shift, mostly it's easier if I upshift with my left hand and downshift with my RH. I can't see the window, but the grinding tells me what half the gears are in. It works FABULOUSLY. The cables straddle the TT, so is rock solid and unchanged since the first day, 6 years and 17,060 miles with 2 tours.  The custom TT has some slope at the front also. I have stuff wrapped over the shifter to mitigate the damn slipperiness. Crashes HAVE happened to me. The bar end bruised my thigh.

So IMO, bar end mount or other bar addons are just plain goofy. I would HATE how they interfere with brake levers. I also have my brake cables looped high over the bar then down the HT, so it is away from my CF front trunk or bags. I love my comfortable SA levers with plastic inserts. My front wheel is a SA XL-FDD with 27,000 NO worry miles.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 05:23:21 PM by GamblerGORD649 »

martinf

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2020, 08:08:20 AM »
I have upgraded my singlespeed MTB to Rohloff recently. On the SS setup I was running Nitto Albatross bars (comfort bars similar to North Road bars, 60deg swept back). I have a feeling that the back sweep of these bars is too much for a gripshift. Does anyone have sone experience with the Rohloff shifter on similar backsweep bars?

I get on quite nicely with 90 degrees  - on the end of drop bars. My wife is OK with her Nexus twist-grips on two of her bikes, these have "North Road" style bars which have a lot of sweepback, but I haven't measured the actual angle.

I'd say try with the existing bars and see if you get on with twist grip at that angle before trying another solution, which could be different bars OR mounting the twist-grip in a different way.

Before going to bar-end on drops I used an extension fitted to the stem, putting the twist grip underneath the bars. This can be set at any angle you want, and worked OK, but having tried both I prefer the bar-end position on drops.

As far as extensions go, for Ahead style bikes Thorn sell a part for intended to increaseg the handlebar space, often used for mounting a handlebar bag. For bikes with quill stems I have used a short bar end for MTB flat bars, cut to length if necessary.

buffet

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2020, 08:25:25 AM »
I would imagine that anything significantly more than that would put your wrists in a very awkward and uncomfortable  position especially for operating the Rohloff Twistshifter.

That's the primary idea of my post. I have a feeling that anything with more than 45 degree of backsweep is not going to work well with a gripshift mounted traditionally.

And once again - to me this is a gripshift-only issue. These bars with 60deg bend in a singlespeed mode work fantastic for my wrists.

Below you can find how my bike and handlebar arrangement looks like. I will borrow a Jones bar (45deg bend) from my friend to test if it's better (although I have a feeling that even 45 degree bend is a bit too much to be used with gripshift)

buffet

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2020, 08:32:37 AM »
Note that the proper, ergonomic, way to fit North Road bars is with the handgrips pointing down between fifteen and thirty degrees from horizontal, for which the upsweep and the long grip make allowance.

Yes, that's exactly how I'm running them, handgrips pointed down.

GamblerGORD649

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2020, 08:35:18 AM »
Your bar looks like exactly the same sweep as mine. But they have 60 mm rise and the other 80 something. I would put it on that TT, no doubt. Easy hack.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 07:47:52 PM by GamblerGORD649 »

buffet

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2020, 10:33:16 AM »
You bar looks like exactly the same sweep as mine. But they have 60 mm rise and the other 80 something. I would put it on that TT, no doubt. Easy hack.

Do you mind sharing a picture for me to understand better how it looks like?

GamblerGORD649

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2020, 03:52:59 PM »
https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/1215648-mudguards-look-good-4.html#post21764056
 
Here you can see all 3 arrangements, the bottom one not so well, in front of the tractor. It has the SA RD5w wheel here, that does show more of the bare metal post and on the yellow bike also.
To make, you need about 3" of 7/8" tube and 3" of 1 1/8" frame size tube. Angle round one end of the 7/8" to match the other. Get it welded, then maybe trim off the top end, sand it all smooth (also to a bit less than 7/8"), then paint or plate it. This way needs a hose clamp on the angle down end, with rubber tube padding. Or maybe just get SJS to weld the 7/8" to the TT?? I use a rubber plug off a metal broom handle to pad the top. Actually, my reason for the angle is so the cable ends point down and then the cables go under the TT.

Almost my whole bike is a homemade ton of metal and CF, LOL. Including my nickel plated stem. I got the material at a metal mart, hand cut the parts, then took it to a muffler/ car mechanical shop, where the wonderful owner did the welding. I had to leave some tools and my AXA lock home to get the weight down to 73 lbs here. LOL. This bike with the SA RD5w has done 46 mph on a hill, videos on YT.

The cables like you and most others have, will rub thru the frame paint. A general clumsy nuisance anyway. I bloody hate 2 finger levers.

*** Happy New Year ***
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 07:11:21 AM by GamblerGORD649 »

Andre Jute

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2020, 04:14:59 PM »
Lovely clean setup, Buffet. I had a Porsche in that orange once, and by comparison the sunflower yellow one that followed it looked restrained. The colour by itself will keep a lot of drivers away from your bike and your limbs.

Here are some photos of the installation of the nearest to a genuine North Road handlebar you will get today, the Uno-Kalloy item I mentioned above.

Overall view of North Road bars on my utility bike.
Note that the grips are not parallel.

The Nitto handlebar you show is an upside down moustache bar, which is just a different shape of drop when it is used as intended; drops have parallel grips because at that place in relation to the body posture on a road bike, parallel grips keep the wrists straight.

For the different position one assumes on the bike with North Road bars, the wrists are parallel if the grips are angled at around 45 degrees seen from above and downwards by some angle that is in fact determined by the rider's height in relation to the saddle height and the mounting height of the handlebars at the stem. And of course your intention; for the speed attempt above (on another bike like a standard Dutch commuter), the grips were almost vertical in side elevation.

And here's how the Rohloff rotary gear control is fitted on uncut Uno-Kalloy North Road bars:

Brooks leather ring grips fastened with bicycle spokes.
Compare with photo above to see that the grip is somewhat shortened.

There's actually plenty of space for controls like the gears, the brakes, and a bike computer (removed to show other mountings) even if the handlebar ends are reserved for a mirror and a pull-out cable-lock (the spike seen in the first photo) as on this custom Kalloy handlebar from n'lock in Switzerland.

Apologies for the lack of focus on the current discussion of the photos, but they were taken for different purposes, seen here:
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGbuildingpedelec6.html
and here:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4723.msg23423#msg23423
« Last Edit: December 31, 2020, 04:26:44 PM by Andre Jute »

il padrone

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2021, 02:07:05 PM »
Completely OT, sorry, but I couldn't help noticing your nice clean new shifter grip. Do you know of any source for the old-style triangular section grip? I don't really want to change to the new shifter type, preferring the triangular grip but I cannot seem to find any at any on-line stores.

Cheers, Pete

steve216c

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2021, 10:51:44 AM »
Completely OT, sorry, but I couldn't help noticing your nice clean new shifter grip. Do you know of any source for the old-style triangular section grip? I don't really want to change to the new shifter type, preferring the triangular grip but I cannot seem to find any at any on-line stores.

Cheers, Pete

I managed to snag the last one at a sensible price left in the world from a store in Prague. Cost me EUR 16 and a couple of beers for someone passing through to pick up for me. Sorry. First come, first served  :o

https://www.bikestation.fi/shop/de/teile/rohloff_speedhub/speedhub_teile/rohloff_speedhub_griffgummi.html in Finland have new one at a ridiculous price + postage on top

I found a seller on ebay Germany who will customize a wooden replacement, out of chestnut. But we are talking really silly money at this point.

Alternative try my cheapscape method described here. I would recommend 45mm shrink rubber, and not the 50mm I used on my old rubber to keep as a spare. The 50mm is great on my shaped grips and holding tight and steady. But I have the feeling that 45mm shrink rubber would creat a tighter bond for a part that  through the nature of what you do with it, may need to be held tighter than the 50mm can shrink down to. http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14161.msg105655#msg105655

If you don't like it, the shrink rubber is not bonded, but just shrunk to the Rohloff rubber and can be removed either by carefully cutting or stretching by wedging a screwdriver between grip and wrap and levering/stretching it back off. What can go wrong for less than a fiver including postage for that solution?




If only my bike shed were bigger on the inside...

energyman

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2021, 12:00:40 PM »
Thorn's Comfort Bars do me fine on all my bikes with and without Rohloffs.

buffet

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Re: Swept back comfort bars + Rohloff gripshift = ?
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2021, 06:26:47 AM »
I love everything about my Rohloff, except for one thing: cables. Part of this is due to my singlespeed background. Yes, sometimes I have strange desires like kick-back shifting on the Rohloff to get rid of cables and shifter completely. Sometimes I entertain my friends on a Sunday club ride by riding without the shifter and Ext box and I shift with a 8mm wrench during stops  >:(

Seriously though, why on Earth did they design the twist shifter with cables entering the shifter at 90 degree angle? Why not design them to enter from the side, so that your cables run nicely along the bars without bends and loops (like all other derailleur shifters are made)? Herr Rohloffís logic evades me on this one.