Author Topic: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)  (Read 892 times)

Andre Jute

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Re: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2020, 11:09:12 AM »
Of course, some people find it therapeutic to work on their bikes. I'm not one of them. I have a bike carefully designed and developed to require near zero service: Oil change for the Rohloff and a shot of grease for its EXT clickbox once a year, brake blocks and new tyres every 5000m, new chain every 2500m, and sprockets turned every unknown multiple of 5000m -- unknown because I haven't done it yet, chainring permanent because it is steel, and my chain runs inside a Hebie Chainglider on the factory lube for its entire life so the only service is changing it for a new chain. Basically, it works out to one service a year, and every second year I wipe a near invisible layer of dust off my bike with a soft cloth -- even the lanes I ride in are blacktop, and it rains so often here, there's hardly ever dust on the road. The whole affair could be over in fifteen minutes if necessary but I leave the oil to drain for several hours, often overnight, because I'm in no hurry. It may cost a little more to throw out components with some fraction of life left in them for the convenience of a regularly scheduled service, but I grew up with cars that had to be serviced every 3000m, so it is not weird idea to me, and anyway, I'd rather throw away a chain that's half-worn than have a worn chain wreck a chainring and sprocket that might take hours to replace.

Pavel

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Re: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2020, 05:22:32 PM »
A sarcastic "Thanks" to Andre is in order.  I was perfectly happy, never thinking one single thought, ever, about chain connectors, except to wonder where I've misplaced the only one left, whenever it was needed.

Now that one line about Connex chains' superior link - and I've spent twenty minutes looking at all the choices at their site.  And now I have to go to other companies sites to compare, and to scratch my head.

I love to work on bikes, motorcycles and other similar tasks.  But I don't do it exactly because I like to do it, but rather that I either don't care one bit about ALL the details of a project or a switch get thrown in my head and I need to optimize every detail to try to make it flow like butter made by zen Buddhists. The end results are the goal, so things operate as best as possible, but also the process needs to be optimized.  In our darkroom, I must have spent ten months optimizing the workflow to take two steps less out from enlarger to fixer and other such details.  Once it was perfect my wife spent time immeasurable in there, while I, once the workflow was honed, lost most of the interest.  I worry that I like bicycles that same way.

So with that said, and in that context, do chains make a difference enough to be felt?  A new, properly installed and lubed chain versus something worn out, I think is obviously a palpable difference.  But do you find that one brand versus another or the lower end versus the higher end; is it something we actually feel, do you all think?

I bought eight chains when in REI about five years ago. Four were for one speed and four for 9speed. They were the Sram PC-991 and PC-1 chains, which I think were mid grade chains.  Now REI is not a smart place to shop if one is at all cost conscious.  Hipster pricing.  But the chains were 8 and 14 dollars back then.  Now that I need the ultimate chain link (which version is it?) I see that chains with German parents start about 50 dollars, and go past 80 bucks.  Will I feel something sublime upgrading. I assume angels will sing as I pedal while peddling with lightened wallet.  Or whats the scoop?

Now I look and

steve216c

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Re: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2020, 10:53:39 AM »
2B or not 2B? That is the question! Perhaps HB is even better???  :-[ . Just what grade of graphite pencil would be best?

I wouldn't use cheap commercial pencils as they have all kinds of rubbish in them, including kaolin clay, which you don't want in the gubbins of moving parts. However, it is easy to get really good quality pencils without wood in art shops anywhere. The Faber Castell one is called a graphite crayon and is available in several grades for a couple of quid each. But I think the best one for bicycle chain use as Aleman suggests would be the Koh-i-noor (they're the inventors of the graphite pencil about 250 years ago) woodless Progresso Aquarelle pencil, generally available in 4B as a single pencil, in the art shop in the nearest city to me for under a couple of euro. Or order it from Jackson's in London.
 

The artisan all lead pencil is a great idea. As an occasional dabbler in the creative arts I actually have a couple of these on hand should the muse ever take me. With less time to paint or draw Iíve wandered to photography since I have kids, but those 4B pencils will find a new use methinks now youíve suggested it. And grinding to a powder is a simple as using a pencil sharpener if I remove the non graphite outer coating first. Yaaay! This is the kind of fix I like repurposing and reusing stuff I already have on hand.

Pavel

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Re: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2020, 11:08:59 PM »
Then of course, there is the graphite powder sold in Art supply stores.

But adding this to wax is silly in my opinion as it won't change the coefficient of friction between the wax and mating surfaces because I can't see it getting to in-between rubbing surfaces in any degree, if wax is already present.

Were I to go down the rabit hole of overthinking, I'd then be inclined to use molybdenum disulfide, as it is slicker and heat is not a thing in cycling.



« Last Edit: August 30, 2020, 11:15:47 PM by Pavel »

Aleman

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Re: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2020, 12:28:26 PM »
Were I to go down the rabit hole of overthinking, I'd then be inclined to use molybdenum disulfide, as it is slicker and heat is not a thing in cycling.
I've gone down the PTFE powder rabbit hole ... Boy is my chain noisy :( ... Although that may be that I didn't remove excess wax from the chain, and also didn't 'Free' the chain up before fitting it ... may take the chain off again and warm it through again, and wipe off the excess wax this time

martinf

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Re: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2020, 03:08:36 PM »
Were I to go down the rabit hole of overthinking, I'd then be inclined to use molybdenum disulfide, as it is slicker and heat is not a thing in cycling.

I've gone down the PTFE powder rabbit hole.

Molten Speed Wax goes down both those rabbit holes. It contains Teflon (=PTFE) and molybdenum disulphide.

Pavel

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Re: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2020, 03:39:32 PM »
I wonder if there are any future chain breakthroughs to be? 

I don't know anything about ceramics. I wonder if a ceramic chain could be strong enough for the forces, or if not, then perhaps a ceramic coating?  I wonder if there could be any advantage? Perhaps we could save 2, or perhaps even three grams, and could ceramic surfaces be run without grease?

We'd then be in the day of 400 dollar chains. I hope no marketers are lurking. :D

Andre Jute

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Re: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2020, 03:47:11 PM »
Think Delft patterns on your ceramic chain. Definitely worth 400$.

Pavel

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Re: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2020, 03:50:42 PM »
Think Delft patterns on your ceramic chain. Definitely worth 400$.

Sold by the link perhaps?  :D

Tiberius

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Re: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2020, 06:46:53 PM »
Molten Speed Wax goes down both those rabbit holes. It contains Teflon (=PTFE) and molybdenum disulphide.

As I said up thread, I'm using Molten Speed Wax. My chains are very noisy (KMC B1/narrow/silver) I would have thought that wax/PTFE would make them supper slippery and silent but that's not the case...they make a right racket.... :(

martinf

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Re: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2020, 08:46:14 PM »
As I said up thread, I'm using Molten Speed Wax. My chains are very noisy (KMC B1/narrow/silver) I would have thought that wax/PTFE would make them supper slippery and silent but that's not the case...they make a right racket.... :(

I currently have 6 family bikes using the Molten Speed Wax.

My old utility bike has a Chainglider, which probably masks any noise coming from the chain. 3 of the bikes without Chaingliders (old derailleur bike, a Brompton, an old hub-geared visitor bike on which I can't fit a Chainglider) have reasonably quiet chains. On one of the Bromptons the chain is noisy enough for me to notice. I don't know yet for the 6th bike, it is my wife's Brompton, which doesn't get very much use.

My 1st theory is that maybe I didn't agitate the chain that makes a noise sufficiently when it was in the wax bath, so I'll swap it out a bit sooner than was planned and see if the replacement chain makes the same noise.

Aleman

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Re: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2020, 10:58:12 AM »
In my case it was because I hadn't threaded it through the derailleur properly  :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ Once I did that, it was as quiet as anything.

On the subject of what to add to wax, and contents of 'Magic' solutions  ;D "Oz Cycles" on youtube  has some interesting videos. I believe he's done a lot of testing of different formulations, compared with commercial equivalents, and I finally followed his guide and recipe >>> here <<<. I did think of using molylbdenum disulphide, or even better, tungsten disulphide, instead of / as well as the PTFE, but as they are brown / black compounds decided against it on the grounds of wanting my chain to look clean  ;D ;D ;D  WS2 has a lower coefficient of friction than PTFE for those of you wanting the ultimate watt saving wax lube ;)

Just degreasing OEM Lube on the KMC chains on the Raven Twin then heat up the wax cooker and apply the wax.

martinf

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Re: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2020, 07:57:55 AM »
Just put a waxed chain on another bike and noticed another small drawback to using wax, which applies only to hub-geared or single-speed bikes without tensioners, and maybe only to fairly well used chains.

The bike is an old hub-geared bike used occasionally by my wife and sometimes by visitors. I had to move the wheel forwards in the dropouts by several millimeters before I could fit the chain. After that I rode the bike a couple of kms so that the chain slackened up, before adjusting the wheel position in the dropouts again and then finally refitting the Chainglider. 

My theory is that the wax fills up the little gaps inside the (reasonably well used) chain, making it seem like it has no wear at all when trying to fit it. Pedalling then compresses the wax, so that it goes back to the original length it had before waxing.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 06:54:37 AM by martinf »

Andre Jute

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Re: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2020, 01:02:05 AM »
My theory is that the wax fills up the little gaps inside the (reasonably well used) chain, making it seem like it has no wear at all when trying to fit it. Pedalling then compresses the wax, so that it goes back to its original length before waxing.

Sounds about right. Sheldon Brown was very keen on oiling only one edge of the chain, on the theory that if you oil a single side of the chain between the plates and tubes, the oil will run in and lubricate the whole thing, whereas oil on both sides of the chain can cause an air block in the middle so that the service undermines itself. I see no reason the same shouldn't apply to wax.

steve216c

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Re: Ikea candles chain lube- don't try this at home kids :)
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2020, 09:57:26 PM »
I managed 620km on last wax. I rode on a couple of heavy rain days in week after waxing. What I noticed was that about 605km the chain became audible, which sound like first 7 gears on the hub, but on all gears. It was still riding Ok with no skipping, but annoyingly and progressively louder till I got home. Waxed and refitted chain and already 160km smooth and quiet again. The nice thing was even with removal and refitting my hands only got grubby but not oily. So plain soap and water to clean up after.
I will try the graphite trick in the wax another time. But I'm pretty converted to wax vice oil on the chain so far.