Author Topic: Protecting Inside of Frame  (Read 459 times)

gepabu

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Protecting Inside of Frame
« on: June 02, 2020, 09:45:20 AM »
I'f like to put something inside the bike to protect against rust. J P Weigleís Frame Saver looked good but can't find anywhere in the UK that sells it. Does anyone have a source?

If not what other products do you recommend?

As for the application, I have read you only need to apply it down the seat post and then spin the frame 360 degrees. This makes sense?

Thanks

gepabu

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Re: Protecting Inside of Frame
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2020, 09:50:09 AM »
Does the fact that so few places sell it and that even muc off, who make a specific product for everything imaginable, have made a cavity protector suggest it is not necessary?

PH

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Re: Protecting Inside of Frame
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2020, 11:42:02 AM »
Mercian used to sell Framesaver, I don't know if they still do, I asked why they didn't use it as standard on their own frames and didn't get much of an answer.  I'm a bit dubious of any product that isn't a hard finish yet claims to be a one use application, I'm even less confident when it's out of sight. 
I use ACF-50 on all my frames, applied when they get a full service, that's once a year except for the bike that sees the worst weather which gets done twice (Going into winter and after).  I have the seatpost, BB and forks out anyway, it's a couple of minutes to spray inside the frame, whether it looks like it needs it or not.
Waxoil is another option, I've never used it, you'll have to google for instructions, I think you dilute it and have to leave it to dry off a bit, it sounds like a messy job, though there's some swear by it.
A lot of modern frames, including Thorn, have an ED coating which in theory should make protecting the inside unnecessary, I've read conflicting reports on it's effectiveness though there's no doubt it helps.  My Mercury has this and from the bits I can see I have no reason to doubt it's doing the job, but as it's such a minor task to give it a spray of ACF-50 I'll continue to do so.
In case you're wondering
  http://www.acf-50.co.uk/acf-50.htm

gepabu

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Re: Protecting Inside of Frame
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2020, 12:16:16 PM »
Thanks. Your bike sounds extremely well looked after.

You don't think theres a chance that what ever you apply could corrode the coating Thorn put in it?

leftpoole

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Re: Protecting Inside of Frame
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2020, 05:24:28 PM »
You can put what you like inside a frame. You can zinc coat.
Steel will rust no matter what you do!
But the good part is, that even if you treat the frame badly, even if it has no anti rust coatings. It will live longer than you will.
My answer is, donít bother.
For goodness sake how long are you going to live? You donít know. The frame will outlive you.
Stop worrying and get riding!
Best regards,
John

Dave B

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Re: Protecting Inside of Frame
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2020, 11:22:15 PM »
Whilst looking at Thorns Instragram page they seem to apply Wurth Cavity Protection to their frames.

PH

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Re: Protecting Inside of Frame
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2020, 01:06:42 AM »
I've seen several frames rust away to scrap from the inside out, including one of mine, all within the original owners lifetime.  You might get lucky, you might not, but anyone who thinks it can't be an issue only needs to spend five minutes on google to be proved wrong.

PH

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Re: Protecting Inside of Frame
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2020, 01:15:15 AM »
Thanks. Your bike sounds extremely well looked after.

You don't think theres a chance that what ever you apply could corrode the coating Thorn put in it?
My bikes are well looked after because I'm lazy, I learnt long ago that doing a good job means doing it less often and it taking less time overall.  Complete strip down service takes me an afternoon, I'll probably ride 5 - 6000 miles before anything other than brake pads and tyres needs touching again. I know people who never do a proper service, they're the ones with the list of outstanding jobs and the need to be constantly fiddling.  Their choice of course, but you won't find me spending a day struggling to get a seatpost out, because I spend five minutes a year making sure it doesn't get stuck.
I did consider if the ACF-50 would react with the ED coating so sprayed the steerer tube when new and left it for six months, no reaction.

martinf

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Re: Protecting Inside of Frame
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2020, 06:17:12 AM »
I do the insides of my Brompton frames, except for the seat tube where any oily or greasy substance might interfere with the folding. On Bromptons the rear triangle chainstay bridge is prone to rusting out, at least on old models, as there is a little hole that catches water and muck coming off the tyre. The "chainstays" and "seatstays" on the triangle are open-ended, I left these open on my first Brompton, it collected a lot of debris, especially in the RH  "chainstay". So on subsequent Bromptons I treated everything I could get at with my can of LPS3, a sticky rust protector dating from the 1970's, before sealing all holes and openings with window sealant. I periodically clean and repaint the inside of the seat tube, as this is another area that rusts on Bromptons that are used regularly in wet weather. And I block off the opening in the top of the Brompton seatposts (and any other open seatposts) with window sealant.

Also did my 1977 Woodrup frame with LPS3 when I had it repainted, although I couldn't see any internal rust. Not done it again in the past 35 years, and it should not need doing again as I only use this bike in good weather and it is stored in a reasonably dry garage.

Not bothered doing the frame on my old utility bike, if it rusts out I already have a replacement. Not bothered doing my wife's two (old) large-wheel bikes, as these are hardly ever used in wet conditions.

I haven't yet done my Thorns, but I will try and get some ACF-50 and add this task to their next overhaul, as it looks much easier than using my semi-liquid LPS3. The most vulnerable part on a Thorn frame with Aheadset seems to be the steerer tube/head tube, I currently grease this area periodically.


gepabu

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Re: Protecting Inside of Frame
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2020, 01:13:03 PM »
I think I will leave the frame alone but make sure it is well greased

martinf

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Re: Protecting Inside of Frame
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2020, 07:15:45 AM »
I use ACF-50 on all my frames, applied when they get a full service, that's once a year except for the bike that sees the worst weather which gets done twice (Going into winter and after).  I have the seatpost, BB and forks out anyway, it's a couple of minutes to spray inside the frame, whether it looks like it needs it or not.

I have a question here - how many services does a can of ACF-50 last ?

A couple of minutes to spray inside frame/forks (and inside steel seatposts and stems, and anything else hollow made out of steel) seems worth doing at full services.

I don't suppose it is worth doing on aluminium alloy parts (thinking inside handlebars here)?

I don't do full services on all the bikes annually. For different reasons, the family Bromptons, my old utility bike and the two visitor bikes get a full service about once a year. For all the others it is less often, depending on how much they are used and in what weather conditions. My old Woodrup derailleur lightweight with very light fine-weather use only gets a full service about every ten years, on this bike I use an antiseize compound on the quill stem and seatpost and then trust to luck that they don't seize.

Exceptionally, with two months of fairly strict confinement in France, all the family bikes have had full services this year, except for my old trailer, which will have to wait until I finish the decorating work prompted by confinement (bulky stuff to fetch from the DIY shop and accumulated rubbish to take to the recycling centre).

PH

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Re: Protecting Inside of Frame
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2020, 02:20:47 AM »
I have a question here - how many services does a can of ACF-50 last ?

An aerosol does somewhere around five bikes.  It's hard to be precise, I can't remember when I bought the two cans, four or five years ago, at the time my winter bike was Ti and didn't need anything.  I have half a can left so need to stock up before too long.

martinf

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Re: Protecting Inside of Frame
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2020, 07:27:02 AM »
An aerosol does somewhere around five bikes.

Thanks.