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New Chain fitted to Raven

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Matt2matt2002:
I know figures can be made to mean anything but here are mine - for what they are worth.

New front and rear chain rings (38/17 ) fitted to my Raven October 2014
Chainglider always covered the chain.
Chain - KMC X1 fitted at the same time.

Wear on chain was just nudging 0.75 this week so fitted a replacement.
KMC X1 EcoProTeQ

Mileage/time between chains: 6,400 / 3 years 10 months.

Chain never reversed. Lubricated rarely. Cleaned with a rag occasionally.
Front and rear rings look unworn.

Any thoughts/observations welcome, folks.

martinf:
IMO quite good for a bike used for expedition touring.

Compares extremely well with my last big tour with a derailleur bike (3300 kms during which I used up 4 chains). This bike had a rear U-brake under the bottom bracket which tended to spray muck and water onto the chain, so probably a "worst case" scenario.

Not yet relubed or cleaned the chains on my two Raven Tour bikes, they are still on the original factory lube. I just open the chainglider to visually check them, both are at about 1900 kms.

Raven Sport Tour without chainglider also still on the original factory lube at about 1100 kms, but with this bike I stay on decent roads and mostly use it in good weather.

On my Brompton used for commuting before retirement I would go 300-500 kms between cleaning/relubing chains, with average about 2000 kms before replacement at about 1% wear. The small wheels putting the transmission closer to the ground leads to the chain picking up more muck, the small rear sprocket needed for decent gearing probably doesn't help either.

mickeg:
I do not recall whom on this forum suggested that the chain with an IGH or single speed probably lasts longer than a derailleur chain, but I am beginning to think they were right.  Perhaps the varying chainline on a derailleur bike puts wear on a chain faster?  My Rohloff bike has a chainline error of 5mm.

I put a 1000 miles (~~ 1500 km) on my already worn chain on my Canadian Maritimes tour in June and July.  I do not recall how many times I lubed it, but in five weeks I probably lubed it less than once per week.  I expected to chuck it when I got home, but measured it and it still measured ok, no need to change it.  For the past couple years I have been using a Pedros wax lube, but ran out a few months ago, since then started using Finish Line Ceramic chain lube.

I have often commented here that I change my chains at 0.75 percent stretch, but I am starting to think that I could probably go to 1 percent stretch without putting too much wear on my chainring or rear cog on my Rohloff bike.  But I plan to continue changing at 0.75 percent on my derailleur bikes because cassettes and chainrings are much more expensive than chains. 

And one thought that I have recently had is that when my derailleur bikes get to 0.75 percent stretch, perhaps I should move those chains off of the derailleur bikes and onto my Rohloff bike and then replace at 1.0 percent stretch since I seem to get such good mileage on my Rohloff chains.  I typically put more distance on my derailleur bikes than on my Rohloff bike, although this year the 1000 miles I put on the Rohloff for that tour gives that bike a head start.

I have never used a chain glider, so my distances are not expected to be as good as those of you that use a chain glider.

Andre Jute:

--- Quote from: Matt2matt2002 on August 13, 2019, 08:32:48 pm ---Mileage/time between chains: 6,400 / 3 years 10 months.
--- End quote ---

Thanks, Matt. On the assumption that "mileage" means miles and is not a generic for distance, and that you're about as tough as I am on chains, I conclude that the K1, at least in your hands and in mine, is not better value than the KMC X8-93 which which costs 40% as much as the K1 and has delivered 4506km in my hands  as compared to about 10300km for the K1 in your hands. The X8 was taken off at 0.5 wear; at the full whack of 0.75 the deck would be stacked even higher against the K1.

ADDED 14 August 2019: By the way, Matt, congrats on beating KMC's 10,000km guarantee, and without actually using their sprocket and chainring. See the URL posted by Brian, below.

However, every other chain I've ever owned, apart from the KMC X8 99-x and the Z7/8 (which are intended for hub gears while the X8 is intended for derailleurs) is under the same assumptions beaten hollow by the K1. Before I changed to a Rohloff/KMC chain/Chainglider setup, the variety of chains the LBS supplied never gave more than about 1000m/1600km -- and that's inside a chain-case, albeit not a Chainglider!) -- and cost about the same as the KMC chains.


--- Quote from: mickeg on August 13, 2019, 11:38:01 pm ---I do not recall whom on this forum suggested that the chain with an IGH or single speed probably lasts longer than a derailleur chain, but I am beginning to think they were right.  Perhaps the varying chainline on a derailleur bike puts wear on a chain faster?  My Rohloff bike has a chainline error of 5mm.
--- End quote ---

That would be me, George. The logic is simple. Single speed chains have less flex or give, and thus less tolerance for angled chain lines or chainlines outside the manufacturer's specs. But a well-made derailleur chain, like the KMC X8, has enough flex and is supposed to flex as it accommodates considerable offset at the forward end of the chain.

For everyone else, except George, who's an engineer who can afford a new sprocket and doesn't find changing it a challenge, it is worth noticing that Rohloff expects the chain-line (tread factor or Q factor in boutique bicycle speak) to be within 1mm under all operating conditions.

martinf:
My take on chain wear for optimum component life:

1 use the largest practical rear sprocket/front chainring combination for the gearing I want. I believe small sprockets/small chainrings wear quicker and also cause the chain to wear quicker.

2 hub gear or single speed rather than derailleur. With no low hanging derailleur, chain is further from the ground, so less muck. Chain alignment is also generally much better. Also much easier to clean the chain/chainring/sprocket when necessary.

3 chain case. Only one I have found that works on bikes not originally designed for them is the Chainglider, and then only for certain chainring/sprocket combinations and on bikes that don't need a chain tensioner.

4 if no chaincase, a low-hanging front mudflap reduces muck and water spraying off the front wheel onto the chain. Still worthwhile with a Chainglider, as the latter isn't waterproof.

5 if no chaincase, a drum or roller brake on the rear avoids muck spraying off the rear rim brake onto the chain. Coaster brake also works, but I don't like these. Disc brakes probably have the same advantage.

6 for derailleur bikes, scrap chains at 0.75% wear to reduce wear on expensive multiple chainrings/sprockets.

7 for non-Rohloff hub gear bikes with very cheap rear sprockets: When the 1st chain needs cleaning, put a 2nd chain and sprocket on, clean the 1st chain/sprocket, when the 2nd chain/sprocket needs cleaning fit a 3rd chain/sprocket , ditto for a 4th. Then start again with the 1st chain/sprocket and keep doing this until the realtively expensive chainring is worn out. Variant with a symmetrical rear sprocket is to reverse the sprocket and use with two chains, some chainrings can also be reversed to even out wear. The Sturmey-Archer rear sprockets I use on my Sturmey-Archer and Shimano Nexus equipped bikes cost about 4 euros.

8 for Rohloff hub gear bikes I will probably treat like a derailleur bike and change chains at 0.75% wear and run several in succession. But clean them and keep them to reuse again to finish off the sprocket and chainring, as hub gears seem much more tolerant with worn chains.

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