Author Topic: Rohloff sprocket wear  (Read 15828 times)

PH

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Re: Rohloff sprocket wear
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2019, 01:19:32 PM »
I decided to replace my sprocket after around 18000 kms. Finally my chain was rusty, so i removed chain and sprocket and only reverse my Surly chainring.
Everything works perfectly and without noise transmission !


Has that sprocket been reversed? 
My Mercury has done a bit over 8,000 miles and is still on the original transmission, I haven't yet got round to the Spring service, when I do the sprocket will be flipped and a new chain added, I'll have a good look at the chainring and flip that if it looks worn or doesn't run well. Previous experience is that 1 chainring lasts 2 sprockets. The chain has used up all the adjustment of the Mercurys EBB otherwise I'd let it run a little longer, it's giving no problems. 

PH

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Re: Rohloff sprocket wear
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2019, 01:25:31 PM »
Yeah but it could do more ! maybe 5000k more..

If i compare with a German couple that i met on my way, and who never change chain as i do (every 4-5000 kms), they did only 9000 kms..

Valuable data points. This information confirms my belief that replacing chains relatively early is the most economical way of handling a Rohloff transmission.
That conclusion depends entirely on the cost of components.
Doubling the lifespan of a chain at the cost of shortening that of one side of a 15 sprocket is a different proposition depending on whether you're buying 5 or 25 chains and I've happily used chains at both those price points/ 

martinf

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Re: Rohloff sprocket wear
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2019, 03:19:07 PM »
Valuable data points. This information confirms my belief that replacing chains relatively early is the most economical way of handling a Rohloff transmission.
That conclusion depends entirely on the cost of components.
Doubling the lifespan of a chain at the cost of shortening that of one side of a 15 sprocket is a different proposition depending on whether you're buying 5 or 25 chains and I've happily used chains at both those price points/

I would factor in the time spent on maintenance, not just the cost. Easier to replace the chain more often as no need to remove the rear wheel. And probably difficult to remove and reverse the threaded sprocket (easier with the splined version).

Andre Jute

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Re: Rohloff sprocket wear
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2019, 01:08:02 AM »
Valuable data points. This information confirms my belief that replacing chains relatively early is the most economical way of handling a Rohloff transmission.
That conclusion depends entirely on the cost of components.
Doubling the lifespan of a chain at the cost of shortening that of one side of a 15 sprocket is a different proposition depending on whether you're buying 5 or 25 chains and I've happily used chains at both those price points/
I would factor in the time spent on maintenance, not just the cost. Easier to replace the chain more often as no need to remove the rear wheel. And probably difficult to remove and reverse the threaded sprocket (easier with the splined version).


Yes. The cost is not only the component removed before traditional full wear is reached but time and effort spent on removing/reversing/refitting another component. There are other sorts of costs besides component costs. I nearly gave myself a heart attack fitting the n-lock (very tight Swiss-supervised tolerances, aggravated by stiff factory lube). I'm not trying my luck on unscrewing the known-obstructive Rohloff sprocket until absolutely necessary.

mickeg

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Re: Rohloff sprocket wear
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2019, 03:13:08 AM »
.... I'm not trying my luck on unscrewing the known-obstructive Rohloff sprocket until absolutely necessary.

A few years ago I took my sprocket off, just because I kept hearing that they can be hard to get off.  Came off quite easily, but I used a really big adjustable wrench and a large chain whip.  And added some Phil grease to the threads before it went back on.  Next time I have my wheel off of my bike and have my tools handy, I might just take it off again to renew the grease on the threads.

But if you prefer to neglect it until it becomes something that warrants fear of attempting, that might be self-fullfilling.

Just checked the date of the photo, I took the sprocket off three years after I built up my Nomad.  And the photo was taken three years ago.  So, it is probably about due for me to renew the grease on the threads again this year.

Andre Jute

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Re: Rohloff sprocket wear
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2019, 07:29:18 AM »
.... I'm not trying my luck on unscrewing the known-obstructive Rohloff sprocket until absolutely necessary.
But if you prefer to neglect it until it becomes something that warrants fear of attempting, that might be self-fullfilling.

The axle was greased by the maker of my bike, it was checked by the delivering dealer at my request. The sprocket has been on that greased axle shaft for ten years now. If it was going to freeze, it would have done so by now. Conversely, if it hasn't frozen on, there's no reason to expect that it will. There's no point in fiddling with it until the first side of the sprocket is worn down, at which time if it doesn't come off at my first attempt, rather than strain my heart, I'll send the entire wheel away to get it done. The mickey-mouse opportunity cost of a few chains less than fully worn when I've developed my transmission to where I anyway get three times the previous chain mileage is absolutely no reason to fiddle with unnecessary tasks on the bike; quite the opposite.

PH

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Re: Rohloff sprocket wear
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2019, 06:13:24 PM »
Valuable data points. This information confirms my belief that replacing chains relatively early is the most economical way of handling a Rohloff transmission.
That conclusion depends entirely on the cost of components.
Doubling the lifespan of a chain at the cost of shortening that of one side of a 15 sprocket is a different proposition depending on whether you're buying 5 or 25 chains and I've happily used chains at both those price points/

I would factor in the time spent on maintenance, not just the cost. Easier to replace the chain more often as no need to remove the rear wheel. And probably difficult to remove and reverse the threaded sprocket (easier with the splined version).
For me that might work the other way though I've never timed myself.  I live in a small flat and the preparation to do any bike maintenance and clearing up afterwards makes the frequency more important than the time spent.  This bike, my main one though it's been through several incarnations, gets a biannual service and through clean, this will include taking the sprocket and chain off whether they need replacing/turning or not.  The intention is to minimise maintenance between services, usually no more than adjusting chain tension and brakes, wipe and oil chain and if strictly necessary a bit of a soapy wash.
I use the squeeze method of threaded sprocket removal, this combined with taking it off twice a year has meant it's always been easy, so much so that I have doubts the splined sprocket is any quicker.

Andre Jute

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Re: Rohloff sprocket wear
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2019, 10:46:28 PM »
What impresses me in this thread that we all appear to have personal or at least different circumstantial considerations for how, where and how frequently we do various classes of maintenance. But the maintenance gets done... Is there perhaps a zen component of bicycle maintenance that makes it in itself a satisfying experience?

Danneaux

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Re: Rohloff sprocket wear
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2019, 04:09:22 AM »
Quote
Is there perhaps a zen component of bicycle maintenance that makes it in itself a satisfying experience?
This is certainly true for me -- I really enjoy bicycle maintenance...to the point where I do a quick wipe-down of the bike after each ride to keep it looking nice, to check chain lubrication, and to check for any damage or incipient failures. I find this procedure actually saves me from having to do extended maintenance because I catch and address problems when they are small. I do the same in camp each night after dinner and before I retire to my tent. Not a bad idea given the alkali dist I ride through on my desert tours.

I long ago configured my bikes to be compatible with my high-mileage riding so I really have very little actual maintenance. This has essentially freed me from most maintenance except for chain lubrication and occasional cleaning and replacement.

Of the 15 in my stable, five of the derailleur bikes (tandem, enduro all-road, gravel bike, Folder and recumbent plus my Rohloff-hubbed Nomad expedition bike) have indexed shifting with a friction option. Most of the rest all have friction shifting, long-lived thick chainrings, wide chains, and 5-6sp freewheels that seem to last forever. When the freewheel cogs eventually wear and the teeth become hooked I reprofile them, heat-treat and quench, and go onward. Five of the indexed bikes have cassettes; four are 7-sp, another is 9-sp and it wears more quickly than all the rest. All my super-high mileage randonneur bikes use non-compact half-step gearing with my favorite gear combinations running in a straight chainline to reduce wear close to Rohloff/Fixie levels (there's a fixed-gear in the stable as well). Kool-Stop Salmon brake pads, sealed bearing hubs (Phil Wood, SON, Sakae, Bontrager) and bottom brackets (Phil, Tange, Shimano), and Stronglight/Galli/Tange/Saavedra (French, Italian, Japanese and Argentine!) rollerbearing headsets (with a generous supply of spare floating bearing races and rollers) nearly eliminate those wear points despite high-mileage riding over a period of years. There's also a 1970 Folder with an S_A 3-sp IGH and a 1938 gentleman's roadster with a coaster brake. Nearly every bike I own uses full mudguards with very long mudflaps and I find this greatly helps the drivetrains remain clean and largely maintenance-free.

When I have freshened my bikes, it is usually not because of wear but due to true advancements. One example, I recently refreshed my tandem by swapping 1.5in road slicks for 2.0 in Duremes and SunMetal CR18 Chinook rims for Andra 40s, self-energizing cantis for v-brakes. All made the bike more pleasant and comfortable to ride and were worthwhile for me and my stoker. For many years I used high-quality pannier racks made of aluminum rod...and they always fractured. When Thorn, Tubus, and Surly offered tubular steel racks I made the swap and have had no breakages since. Similarly, though I have done most of my riding over last 41 years in racing shoes and cleats/toe straps, switching to SPD shoes and pedals in 2012 was a real advancement and eliminated the need to carry a spare pair of shoes for walking and camp use. As mentioned previously, lighting technology advances so quickly, my lights are essentially obsoleted every couple years.

So yes, I enjoy maintenance for its own sake, but it is now "maintenance lite" -- a quick wipedown here, a bit of oil there -- thanks to a careful assemblage of long-lived components. I just cannot stand a noisy or malfunctioning bike nor do I want to be let down in the middle of nowhere, so that's what drives more major/preventive maintenance for me.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 07:31:43 AM by Danneaux »

Andre Jute

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Re: Rohloff sprocket wear
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2019, 05:10:24 AM »
... 5-6sp freewheels that seem to last forever. When the freewheel cogs eventually wear and the teeth become hooked I reprofile them, heat-treat and quench, and go onward.

No waste chez Danneaux!

mickeg

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Re: Rohloff sprocket wear
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2019, 05:29:07 PM »
What impresses me in this thread that we all appear to have personal or at least different circumstantial considerations for how, where and how frequently we do various classes of maintenance. But the maintenance gets done... Is there perhaps a zen component of bicycle maintenance that makes it in itself a satisfying experience?

Some people have fear of working on mechanical things, some people do not, this I think is in part based on how much mechanical aptitude you have.

I do not mind working on my bikes at all, I built up most of my bikes from parts.  That pretty much explains why I know them inside and out.  (I however have never looked inside my Rohloff and have no desire to do so.  Looking at a few you tube videos satisfied my curiosity on that.)

So, I am very content to do all of my own work, etc.  I have accumulated a good assortment of tools to do it too.

And I am retired, so it is very easy for me to make time to do all of my own work.

But I do know people that would rather clean the kitchen and bathroom (is loo the correct translation?) before they would even attempt to adjust a brake cable on a bike.  I am the opposite, I would be adjusting the brake cable while I was still riding if I felt that it needed adjustment.

rafiki

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Re: Rohloff sprocket wear
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2019, 10:34:48 AM »
I had a fear of working on the bike, lack of confidence. However, that has changed significantly over the last year or so with help from so many of you here. I have changed all the cables and housings, the twist shifter, chain, chainring, rear sprocket, the ex box pulley, the eccentric BB, external bearings and the brake pads and the bike is as smooth as silk now. I still haven't managed to free off the seatpost though. I am very grateful for this forum.

PH

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Re: Rohloff sprocket wear
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2019, 11:07:00 PM »
What impresses me in this thread that we all appear to have personal or at least different circumstantial considerations for how, where and how frequently we do various classes of maintenance. But the maintenance gets done... Is there perhaps a zen component of bicycle maintenance that makes it in itself a satisfying experience?
I detest bike maintenance, if anything I'm more Confucius than Zen, who I think said
" to avoid bike maintenance do bike maintenance"
I'm paraphrasing, but he did actually say
"Success depends upon previous preparation, and without such preparation, there is sure to be failure."

Andre Jute

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Re: Rohloff sprocket wear
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2019, 12:06:05 AM »
Heh-heh. Taken on a rational basis, say straight-up cost accounting (or, more poncily, cost-benefit analysis), almost anyone here, including those who're retired, could be excused for feeling guilty about wasting their time doing bike maintenance rather than earning money or giving their valuable time to voluntary activities. The Americans may not understand this, but the British and the Australians were educated largely or wholly free on the taxpayers, and therefore can be said to owe something to the common weal...

(I'm not making a normative case, preaching about what should be, telling other people what they should do; I'm merely offering a point for discussion. Don't shoot the piano player.)

in4

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Re: Rohloff sprocket wear
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2019, 12:23:17 AM »
I'm a piano player and humbly request that I not be shot, at least until I've mastered  Bach's 48.  ;)