Author Topic: Tyres  (Read 651 times)

tyreon

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Tyres
« on: February 05, 2019, 09:59:38 AM »
I try to defer to others whose opinions are referenced. There's 'experienced' reviews of bikes and geometry and wheels and mechs and wotnot. I wouldn't dare to argue with more 'experienced' cyclists because I'm 'unsure' and would  get lost in the arcane sophistry of the reply. No argument. I just wonder on what basis some cycle commentators submit their knowledge. I sorta look for a pair of 'decent touring tyres' going by the manufacturing hype and buy them and use them for 4,000,then buy another pair. Those 'with the knowledge' seem to have great experience of tyres and what they do,the tyres properties and wotnot….how do they get this knowledge? Do they ride great distances to get thru the tyre? Have a library of tyres wherein they go out and do 100 to ride another 100 with a different tyre the next day? How do they retain the knowledge? I mean,they seem to compare tyre a,b,c,d...they must have good memories or a stack of tyres in their shed or going thru tyres thru big mileages. I just...buy shcwalbe...and go by their guff. The more knowledgeable cyclist seem to have gone thru schwalbes stable of tyres and then gone thru other manufacturers stable of tyres. How do you get this knowledge of stuff to become a (tyre) guru?


I'm not dissing anyone ,I'm just asking :-\. I guess I don't knock up the miles. And these days I certainly don't.


And now...what regular long lasting light-ish type 20x1.5 tyres would you recommend for my touring folder(s)

mickeg

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Re: Tyres
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2019, 06:37:20 PM »
If you ask 10 bikers what tire they prefer for bike touring, you will probably get 12 answers.

I use three or four different tires for touring for different purposes based mostly on road condition, I have three different touring bikes.

Quite frankly, every touring tire I use at this time is out of production except the Schwalbe Duremes that was out of production, but SJS recently had a batch made.  I recently bought some Marathon Mondials, but have not used them yet.

Every Shwalbe tire I have ever bought has the word Marathon in the name, the plain Marathon, Marathon Dureme, Marathon Extreme, Marathon Winter (studded tire for ice), Marathon XR, etc.  I think that it is hard to go wrong with a Schwalbe tire that has the word Marathon in the name.

For poorer quality pavement or gravel trails, i want more tread than I would use on a tire for good quality pavement.

And for gravel I want a wider tire that will spread the gripping surface out more.

And a wide enough tire on pavement that I do not get a pinch flat.  Pinch flats sometimes look like a snake bit the tube and left two small holes next to each other.  If you hit something hard enough that the tire completely collapses under the weight of the bike, that can cause a pinch flat.  A wider tire is less likely to pinch flat.

Two popular tires that I have never used but some others suggest is (1) Marathon Supremes and (2) any of the Marathon series that has the word Plus in it.

Some tires are more prone to flatting, but can ride faster, each rider has to decide their priorities.

I am not suggesting a specific tire, I do not know what you tour on, how much weight on the bike, etc.

energyman

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Re: Tyres
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2019, 07:58:53 PM »
If you ask 10 bikers what tire they prefer for bike touring, you will probably get 12 answers.  Actually I got 14 !
My choice would be Marathon Plus if you don't want to meet interesting people whilst mending roadside punctures.

Andre Jute

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Re: Tyres
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2019, 12:14:44 AM »
I just purely hate the Marathon Plus, and also have a set of hardly worn Bontrager Elite Hardcase, whose name actually describes why I hate them -- they're just about the same tyre with another maker's name on them. I ride in Irish lanes that are all blacktop, but poorly kept, and those tyres are (for me, same caution as everyone above has given about different roads and different outlooks) unnecessarily hard on my coccyx.

On the other hand, there's rarely -- tending to almost never -- glass or other sharp items on the lanes or the streets in my village, so my first cycling imperative isn't being puncture-free, which is what the Marathon Plus does better than any other tyre I've ever ridden on, but comfort.

A dozen years ago I switched daily bikes to a bike that can take the largest of Schwalbe's Big Apples, 60cm wide, and haven't looked back. It would be difficult to conceive of a tyre more comfortable than the low-pressure Big Apple, they're for my purposes (again!) puncture-proof and on the two occasions in 10,000km that I had fishbites, one of which caused a pretty painful and potentially dangerous incident when I misjudged hopping onto a pavement and the front tyre shortly thereafter suddenly went flat on the downhill in fast automobile traffic, and one of which was sobering but did me no harm when I rode through a new pothole at over 50kph. So the Big Apples, unless abused quite beyond what any elderly cyclist should do to his bike, are just about perfect for me. Also, my Big Apples would have given 10,000km/6000+ or perhaps even half that much again, because the tread on the front tyre still looked new when I fitted new tyres at 8500km/5000+ miles because I wondered whether the two knock-throughs compromised the sidewalls; as an old automobile racer, I'm always very careful about tyres. I've never in my life gotten even a fraction of the mileage I got on the Big Apples (the Marathon Plus were thrown off hardly warn as for tougher bums than mine but other makers' tyres just didn't last under me). So, for me, the Big Apples not only meet all my requirements, but they're pretty economical too.

I can wax lyrical about those Big Apples. Try this thread with a lot more information on choosing and operating tyres in general: In praise of riding low pressure tyres fast
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 09:08:31 AM by Andre Jute »

tyreon

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Re: Tyres
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2019, 08:44:09 AM »
My Goldfish mind says I've read but forgotten? about the Big Apple tyres before(probably from Andre!). So rear end reports of a more comfortable ride and just as hard wearing...and as good on the no flats front. That'll do me. Gonna look-c at their pofile and see if they fit. I want mudguard clearance...tho I don't go out in the rain much. I could take my mudguards off,but don't like the look...and can take showers for <3 hrs.

I wonder...do they make you feel slower. Drag?

Andre Jute

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Re: Tyres
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2019, 10:17:16 AM »
There's a lot of hard information somewhere on this forum, if only one could find it.

There's no need to be too greedy with the Big Apples: you don't need the full 60mm of the biggest ones. According to Herr Kalkoff, who built the Pedersen bikes in Germany, the 50mm gives you 90% of the advantages and no hassle about finding and setting up SKS P65 mudguards to within a millimetre. There's also a 55mm Big Apple, which on the example I rode was indistinguisable from the 60mm on my bike.

The 50mm is a fraction under 2in, and the 55mm is usually reckoned as 2-1/4in wide, the relevance being that there was conversation here once about which of those would fit on at least some Thorns.

***
Far from slowing you down, these tyres make you feel powerful, like stepping up to a V12 Mercedes from a Mondeo. And it isn't just psychology either. Once these tyres are going, they just keep rolling. One of those really, really competent technical universities in Germany made comparative tests and found that of all the tyres they tested, the Big Apples had the lowest rolling resistance. This doesn't surprise me in the least as I'm an old auto-racer, and for two reasons: the wider the tyre is, the better its grip patch, which is a tiny thing, is shaped, so that the energy transfer has more frictional interface to work into, and the slicker the tyre is, the less hysteresis in the rubber sapping the energy from your legs. (It was amusing watching Jobst Brandt, a revered Porsche engineer -- not to mention a cutting edge designer of bicycle components, trying to explain to the cyclists on a so-called technical bicycle group why slick tyres grip the road better, even in the wet.)

As I say, it's not psychosomatic at all. Those tyres are faster for the same input than narrower tyres and especially treaded narrower tyres. I used to demonstrate that on the flat but even now occasionally someone on a road bike tries to stay with me on the downhill and it never works out well for them, mainly because their inadequate tyres on those bad surfaces put them all over the place. I'm not only faster, I'm safer, because nothing intimidates my fat tackies and I swerve for nothing at speed but ride through it, including potholes that will bend a thin rim behind a high-pressure narrow tyre, and because my bike is set up to understeer, whereas the pilote of the road bike may, without him even knowing it, have, and most likely has, been sold a twitchy bike, just waiting to oversteer out of control. I don't think cyclists appreciate, and I'm certainly not going to try and explain something so counterintuitive (it's bad enough trying to explain why fat low-pressure tyres are superior in almost any application but racing), how often it is the width of their tyres that throws them off, with unnecessarily steep frame geometries being the next culprit. I'm on another conference where "a wider tyre" means going all the way up to 23mm... I just chuckle and don't get involved because it isn't worth the flame wars with people who last had their minds in gear about the time the Peugeot 10-speed first appeared.

***

Interesting subject you've chosen. The short answer is, as you've divined: by the seat of my pants. A lot of this theory not only contradicts long-time cycling wisdom passed through generations, raising fiercely protective attitudes, but is counterintuitive as well. If you look at the token treads on Big Apples, you will understand what I mean: the designer knows those tyres would be most efficient if they were as bald as an egg, but the marketing director know that he'll sell fewer tyres without at least a token tread. The sell, or sold last time I looked, a special treadless "racing" model of the Big Apple, at a premium of course.