Author Topic: They should give a torque wrench away with a Rohloff hub gearbox  (Read 486 times)

Andre Jute

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Anyone with a Rohloff bike -- and I specifically include even cyclists of vast experience -- should have a low-range torque wrench because the Rohloff fastening ratings are too low to distinguish by fingerspitzengefuehl, and use it everywhere on the bike because the general trend, except for around and between the pedals but especially for ever-more-expensive components, is for lower tightening torque. A decent quality of 1/4in drive torque wrench of which I and others on this board have experience is the BBB BTL-73, which covers 2-14Nm and is widely available for about fifty quid with a travel case to house the bits. Note that this is in fact a BBB-branded generic torque wrench easily found branded by others at a considerable saving. This one is from X-Tools and sold by Wiggle for a third less:

This BBB TL-73 torque wrench, and its generic siblings under other brands, has been found to give consistent service by many cyclists; I've had one for years, buying it from a bike shop's worktable out back when they didn't have a new one in stock for me; when I checked a month or so later, I discovered they had replaced it with the same. Good enough for professionals is good enough for me.

SJS has several beautiful torque wrenches at
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/search/?term=torque%20wrench
but at the lower-price end of the wide-range torque wrenches they stock the M-Part appears to be a relative (maybe better?) of our generic, widely applauded, torque wrench above.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/tools/mpart-torque-wrench/

Whichever set you buy, you will have to buy additional bits to make up the following set, some of them essential to the needs of the Rohloff HGB:
Hex 2mm, 2.5, 3, 4, 5, 6 and possibly 8 or 10mm
Torx T20 for the Rohloff
Phillips No 2 (or whatever is required by any crosshead screws on your bike, which you should anyway replace with hex head socket screws)
Socket 8mm for changing gears if you have the EXT version of the Rohloff
Extension bar to use where you don't have clearance for the ratchet head

In addition you will need, though less urgently, an automobile type torque wrench for higher settings, to give reliable readings in the middle of its range up to about 35-40Nm. "Less urgently" than the smaller torque wrench because there's generally a fair bit of breathing space around the higher settings, and you can usually just torque up the crank bolts, for instance, by blocking one pedal against a lamppost and standing up on the spanner attached to the other-side crank bolt, and that will be around 33Nm. (Not exactly rocket science engineering but it worked for generations of cyclists and LBSs who didn't even know what a torque wrench was.) This exception doesn't apply to carbon bikes, of course. Mine is a standard automobile tool left over from my hot-rodding days. You won't be carrying this one on the bike, so it doesn't matter if it weighs a lot.

I also have a Park Tools swing pointer (called a "beam") torque wrench, no longer made, but an amazingly accurate tool, and it has the huge advantage, at the higher fastening torques, of a handle long enough to do high-torque tightening job right without straining your back, and the readings are quick and easy in whatever tightening measure you need, without the need for mental arithmetic because the scale is universal and seen all at once. If you can get a beam torque wrench in new old stock (NOS) or that hasn't been abused too much, you can buy it and calibrate it against a mate's fancier torque wrench to make up a table of adjustments to readings if necessary; very likely not required as these things last an impressively long time.

If anyone else has a fave torque wrench, please do mention it.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 12:14:15 AM by Andre Jute »

mickeg

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Re: They should give a torque wrench away with a Rohloff hub gearbox
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2018, 01:52:10 AM »
I recently bought a Ocarina Torque Wrench (google it or enter that as a search in Ebay), I find it works well.  But I rarely use a torque wrench so have not used it much.

I am in USA were we do not have a national VAT, so any price I cite would not be applicable to those of you across the pond.

I can't imagine what you are doing on a Rohloff that requires a torque wrench.  Mine has the EX box, anything that requires a torque wrench I would rather leave up to the people that know Rohloff innards.

I also have a big one with half inch drive that I often use for my crank arm bolts, but that is about the only thing I use it for.

In general terms I usually believe that if you do not know how to use a tool, you might be better off not owning it.  And since torque wrenches should be used as directed (sometimes with lube on the threads, sometimes without, etc.), thus you could easily mess up if you were not diligent about proper specifications.

Danneaux

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Re: They should give a torque wrench away with a Rohloff hub gearbox
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2018, 07:41:50 AM »
The Rohloff manual has a full listing of torque values in the text for common user-serviceable items (as on page 81-82 for the EX shift-box) and also on page 124 of this download:
https://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Manual_2017_11_web_En.pdf

Twist shifter clamp torque calls for lightly greasing the mounting screws and then torquing them to 1Nm/8in.lbs. (page 73 in the PDF at the link above).

Best,

Dan.

John Saxby

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Re: They should give a torque wrench away with a Rohloff hub gearbox
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2018, 02:41:08 PM »
+1 for the BBB wrench, Andre (which I bought on your recommendation.)

One item to add to the sockets which come with the BBB, however, is a 1/4 drive 15 mm socket for the EBB fixing bolts on a Thorn.

I use the the BBB in different places on my Raven:  front and rear hub skewers  (whenever I remove & replace a wheel); once only so far, for torquing the five screws on the Rohloff's axle plate (3 Nm);  the EBB fixing bolts (once, maybe twice a year, when I adjust the chain tension); seat-tube bolt (occasionally, just to make sure I have the value right); stem bolt & bar clamp bolts.

I do have an inexpensive long-handled torque wrench with a pointer gauge, which I use occasionally for things like the crank arm fixing bolts. Those things can do a lot of damage, and I wouldn't really recommend using one on a bicycle.  I bought this item some years back for motorcycle applications--from Canadian Tire, of all places, a source I hesitate to mention, but in defence, yer honner, it was while they still sold spare parts and proper tools.

Of sentimental value--if "sentimental" is the word I want--is a set of "Iron Bull" brand sockets I bought in Zambia in 1975. (From OK Bazaars, Andre -- that'll take you back!)  Made in China, these appeared on the Zambian market around the time when China was establishing its presence in Central Africa by building the railway from the Copperbelt to Dar-es-Salaam.  No torque wrench in that kit, but the whole thing is close to indestructible, and has a set of sockets from 10 mm up to 27 (!!)

B cereus

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Re: They should give a torque wrench away with a Rohloff hub gearbox
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2018, 07:02:12 PM »
I do have a BBB clone torque wrench but I also have a beam type Topeak wrench which I find very useful.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/topeak-combo-torq-wrench/rp-prod137802

Mechanical type torque wrenches are excellent but can go out of adjustment and should be recalibrated from time to time. Beam type wrenches operate on a very simple principle and are usually sufficiently accurate for most purposes, and give reproducible results which defy their modest price tag.

High Moors Drifter

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Re: They should give a torque wrench away with a Rohloff hub gearbox
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2018, 07:32:49 PM »

Twist shifter clamp torque calls for lightly greasing the mounting screws and then torquing them to 1Nm/8in.lbs. (page 73 in the PDF at the link above).

Best,

Dan.

Dan.

Iíve a problem with a broken wave twistshifter clamp (see recent post elsewhere on forum). Iíve used the link and note the twist shifter shown is the original which differs from the clamp fixing used on the wave shifter. If I have to replace the shifter it seems as though the old style might be more robust.

Id

Danneaux

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Re: They should give a torque wrench away with a Rohloff hub gearbox
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2018, 08:16:03 PM »
Hi Id!

Yes, the Rohloff grip-shifter covers have changed over time, but the basic clamp design seems to be the same. The first was a triangular design, then the more smoothly rounded one, and then the latest wave design. I upgraded mine from the round style to the wave style by just changing the cover...the mounting bracket and cable pulley beneath remained the same.

I see the complete old-style triangular replacement shifter runs about 49GBP at SJS Cycles here: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-shifters/rohloff-14-speed-handlebar-twistshifter-for-speedhub-50014-8200/?geoc=US

The latest "wave" style complete shifter is about 70GBP here: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/gear-shifters/rohloff-14speed-handlebar-twistshifter-light-for-speedhub-50014-wave-design-8206/?geoc=US

I didn't see a replacement clamp or mount set on the SJS Cycles site, but I'm guessing a quick email to them would turn one up if available or would possibly allow placing an order, as they have an incredibly deep inventory or access to things other shops don't.

The clamp torque of 1Nm/8in.lbs is really low...it wouldn't take much to exceed it. It is possible the clamp bolt was overtightened at some point or perhaps was not sitting square on the handlebar and so was drawn up at an angle... there could have been a flaw that served as a stress riser in the billet the clamp was milled from. It can happen.

I sure hope you can get it sorted soon so you can fully enjoy the bike again, Id. Please let us know how you come out.

All the best,

Dan.

EDIT: Just saw your update here: http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13065.msg97954;boardseen#new I hope you can get by with an inexpensive repair.  :)

Andre Jute

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Re: They should give a torque wrench away with a Rohloff hub gearbox
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2018, 12:38:32 AM »
The Rohloff manual has a full listing of torque values in the text for common user-serviceable items (as on page 81-82 for the EX shift-box) and also on page 124 of this download:
https://www.rohloff.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Manual_2017_11_web_En.pdf

Twist shifter clamp torque calls for lightly greasing the mounting screws and then torquing them to 1Nm/8in.lbs. (page 73 in the PDF at the link above).

Thanks, Dan. Everyone else may want to check how low the Rohloff tightening regime is. The SON hub dynamo too. Getting too enthusiastic with the skewers can lead to unwanted results.

But even for Rohloff the shifter clamp fastener torque of 1Nm is insanely low. That's just finger tight on a greased fastener and maybe half a turn with a wrench! It might be smart to use the hex key in a screwdriver or to hold the flipover arm of a multitool vertically above the screw to avoid over-torqueing.

All the same, I don't carry a torque wrench with me on a steel bike. What I do, if rarely occasion arises to loosen the wheel nuts on the road, is to refasten them as sensitively as I can manage and trust to the short moment-arm of the small on-bike tool not to allow over tightening, and at home to loosen the nut again and refasten it with the torque wrench. If I rode a carbon bike, I would probably carry a lightweight preset single measurement torque wrench with me, like those on the SJS page I referred to above.

Mike Ayling

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Re: They should give a torque wrench away with a Rohloff hub gearbox
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2018, 12:41:59 AM »
+1 for the BBB wrench, Andre (which I bought on your recommendation.)

One item to add to the sockets which come with the BBB, however, is a 1/4 drive 15 mm socket for the EBB fixing bolts on a Thorn.


Yes I also upgraded my set to include the 15mil socket for the EBB bolts. About 12nm from memory.

OK Bazaars brings back memories of my time growing up in Sarf Efrica.

Mike

Andre Jute

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Re: They should give a torque wrench away with a Rohloff hub gearbox
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2018, 01:11:18 AM »
Thanks for the addition of EBB holding screws socket, John.

...the whole thing is close to indestructible, and has a set of sockets from 10 mm up to 27 (!!)

I never throw out a working tool. I have an old Whitworth spanner, a huge thing useful when I turned old Bentleys into sportscars. It's rejuvenated and living big as the operator of my Rohloff sprocket dismounting tool, which it fits precisely. I hate to think what a new spanner of that size and quality would cost.

John Saxby

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Re: They should give a torque wrench away with a Rohloff hub gearbox
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2018, 01:56:26 AM »
Quote
an old Whitworth spanner

I didn't mention my exemplary stainless Westcraft Whitworth socket set, bought 35 years ago from Accessory Mart in Cincinnati (a trove of parts and tools for old Britbikes) to see me through the restoration of my '57 AJS scrambler. The action on the 3/8 ratchet drive is smoother than anything else I own, and although it's not a torque wrench, it handles pedal changes better than anything else in the workshop.  (With the addition of a step-down 3/8 to 1/4 drive.)

Since I sold the Ajay to finance the Raven a few years ago, I don't really have any practical use for most of the Whitworth sockets.  I do look at them now and then, though, just to remind myself what quality looks like.  Restoring the Ajay took twenty years (a good story in itself), but the sprockets and the driver are all unmarked.

Danneaux

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Re: They should give a torque wrench away with a Rohloff hub gearbox
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2018, 03:39:48 AM »
I...have a Whitworth thread gauge. And no, you can't have it!  ;D

All the best,

Dan. (...who wonders how much a Whit is worth these days...)

John Saxby

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Re: They should give a torque wrench away with a Rohloff hub gearbox
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2018, 02:30:47 PM »
Quote
who wonders how much a Whit is worth these days

Almost certainly more on Whitsunday  ;)

(There'll be some, of course, who care not a whit for such musings...sod 'em.)

Danneaux

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Re: They should give a torque wrench away with a Rohloff hub gearbox
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2018, 03:05:21 PM »
Quote
Almost certainly more on Whitsunday
Snrrrrrk! John, shame on you; I was drinking cocoa at the time I read this and have an awful mess to clean up!

:D

All the best,

Dan.

energyman

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Re: They should give a torque wrench away with a Rohloff hub gearbox
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2018, 07:02:25 PM »
All torque as usual.
;)