Author Topic: Rough friction Feeling  (Read 784 times)

Cruz

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Rough friction Feeling
« on: July 24, 2018, 05:58:36 PM »
Hello, maybe there was discussion about this issue, but could not find it.
When riding from1 to 7 speed i feel rough friction in hub and it is more noisy. Changed oil but it did not go.
what could be a problem? is it normal for new hubs? or maybe it need shifter cables to be adjust?

geocycle

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Re: Rough friction Feeling
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2018, 01:44:09 PM »
Welcome to the forum.  If you are referring to the well known noise in the lower range of gears especially 6 and 7 then it is all very normal.  There are quite a lot of threads on noise, including one active one.  Basically, this is irritating but gets better in the long term.
 

Cruz

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Re: Rough friction Feeling
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2018, 01:55:10 PM »
I am asking because from 1 to 7 i feel some rough friction and under pressure it feels more. and it feels really noisy and rough on 7 speed.

mickeg

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Re: Rough friction Feeling
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2018, 05:51:14 PM »
I pasted my post from a recent thread here:

There are three planetary gear systems in the Rohloff.  Gears 8 through 14 are the gears where you are most of the time and those gears use two of the planetary gears, the third planetary gear is unused.  Gear 11 is direct drive, gears 12 through 14 are a form of overdrive.  When using gears 8 through 14 the hub is quite quiet. 

But gears 1 through 7 are like using gears 8 through 14, but with a low range, not unlike using a low range on a four wheel drive truck transfer case.  The hub uses that third planetary gear as a low range and that makes it much more noisy.

I noticed after my first oil change that the hub was quieter and I thought it was a bit smoother.  But gear 7 will always be noisy.  You get used to it.

I made my above comment at this thread:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13014.0

You might want to look at that thread for more info too.

There is a bit more friction in gears 1 through 7 because of that extra planetary gear, but in my opinion it is normal and acceptable.

I also saw your post at BikeForums.Net, but am only answering here.

John Saxby

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Re: Rough friction Feeling
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2018, 06:44:54 PM »
Welcome, Cruz!  Echoing the posts by geo and mickeg, gears 1 through 7 are much noisier than 8 - 14 (although the freewheel in the upper gears is noisier, and the freewheel in the lower is quieter.)

The noise of the hub does lessen with kilometers and age, and starts to lessen after the first oil change. Mine now has about 14,000 kms on it, and in gears 8 - 14 it is very quiet -- in #11, it seems silent. Gears 1 - 7 are noisier; gear 4 is the quietest in the lower range.

As for feeling friction, as you say you do: I can't feel any friction from the hub, even in the lower gears.  My shoes have very stiff soles, and I keep my chain relaxed, rather than tight -- maybe those two things absorb any friction which I might otherwise feel through the pedals?

Not sure where you are, but:  Could you find an "experienced Rohloff rider" to use yours, and offer his/her experience?  Or, could you find someone whose hub is well broken in, and try riding that?

Hope that's helpful.


lestat_12345

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Re: Rough friction Feeling
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2018, 07:28:39 PM »
I felt friction and a slight vibration through the soles of my cycling shoes in certain gears when I first got my rohloff. Had it for about a year now and those issues have now gone. Your rohloff issues are normal and will dissipate given time.

lestat_12345

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Re: Rough friction Feeling
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2018, 07:37:24 PM »
I also bought a second hand rohloff which is about 11 years old. I would say that this operates a lot more quietly and smoothly than my newer model. Obviously the newer one needs to be used a lot more. I would just try to forget about the noise/friction and just enjoy the rohloff experience. Once you have a rohloff you'll never go back to normal gears again. You may even like the rohloff that much you'll buy another 😀

mickeg

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Re: Rough friction Feeling
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2018, 08:17:55 PM »
... Once you have a rohloff you'll never go back to normal gears again. ...

On that I disagree.  I have two derailleur touring bikes, one derailleur rando (audax) bike, and a couple other bikes with derailleurs that get occasional use.

I have been riding my Nomad with Rohloff since I built it up 5 years ago.  But my last two tours were on derailleur bikes.  And my next tour will probably be on the Rohloff bike.

Derailleurs and the Rohloff each have their own sets of pros and cons, I try to use what I think will be best for a particular task or ride or trip or tour or whatever.

But if all the riding you do is in your opinion best done with a Rohloff, I will not argue on that.  Everyone has preferences.

lestat_12345

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Re: Rough friction Feeling
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2018, 07:28:25 AM »
Quote
... Once you have a rohloff you'll never go back to normal gears again. ...

I accept my comment above is based on personal preference but I'm sure there are others out there that will feel the same. The thought of going back to a derailleur bike fills me with a sense of dread. That's why I ended up buying a second rohloff, so I could build up my old Sherpa frame and have a spare bike just in case. My bike is my only mode of transport. I can drive but choose not to.

StuntPilot

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Re: Rough friction Feeling
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2018, 10:26:50 AM »
As John hinted at above - is your chain 'relaxed'. The only time I have come across any real noise or vibration through the drive train was when I had the chain too tight. Rohloff run well with a slightly loose chain.

Cruz

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Re: Rough friction Feeling
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2018, 12:24:17 PM »
I pasted my post from a recent thread here:

There are three planetary gear systems in the Rohloff.  Gears 8 through 14 are the gears where you are most of the time and those gears use two of the planetary gears, the third planetary gear is unused.  Gear 11 is direct drive, gears 12 through 14 are a form of overdrive.  When using gears 8 through 14 the hub is quite quiet. 

But gears 1 through 7 are like using gears 8 through 14, but with a low range, not unlike using a low range on a four wheel drive truck transfer case.  The hub uses that third planetary gear as a low range and that makes it much more noisy.

I noticed after my first oil change that the hub was quieter and I thought it was a bit smoother.  But gear 7 will always be noisy.  You get used to it.

I made my above comment at this thread:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13014.0

You might want to look at that thread for more info too.

There is a bit more friction in gears 1 through 7 because of that extra planetary gear, but in my opinion it is normal and acceptable.

I also saw your post at BikeForums.Net, but am only answering here.
Thank you for responding. I saw that thread before posting here. But noise is not reason of my fear.  I really don't care about noise and checked a lot of topics about that.
The reason is the rough friction feeling in the hub 1-7 speeds, not only 5-7. And under pressure it feels more. I fear that there is damaging something in the hub when riding.  Changed oil already in new hub.
But if it is common issue for new hub and it need time and millage to be softened, that's good. Will ride with more pleasure.
It is my first Rohloff and i know only theoretic things and have no experience with that.

mickeg

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Re: Rough friction Feeling
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2018, 01:41:24 PM »
I used to think I could feel a roughness in gears 1 through 7, but I later concluded that the noise was making me more sensitive to perceived problems that were not really a problem.

Cruz

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Re: Rough friction Feeling
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2018, 01:59:49 PM »
Welcome, Cruz!  Echoing the posts by geo and mickeg, gears 1 through 7 are much noisier than 8 - 14 (although the freewheel in the upper gears is noisier, and the freewheel in the lower is quieter.)

The noise of the hub does lessen with kilometers and age, and starts to lessen after the first oil change. Mine now has about 14,000 kms on it, and in gears 8 - 14 it is very quiet -- in #11, it seems silent. Gears 1 - 7 are noisier; gear 4 is the quietest in the lower range.

As for feeling friction, as you say you do: I can't feel any friction from the hub, even in the lower gears.  My shoes have very stiff soles, and I keep my chain relaxed, rather than tight -- maybe those two things absorb any friction which I might otherwise feel through the pedals?

Not sure where you are, but:  Could you find an "experienced Rohloff rider" to use yours, and offer his/her experience?  Or, could you find someone whose hub is well broken in, and try riding that?

Hope that's helpful.
Thank you for responding.
Was it without friction feeling from  that moment you bought it?
unfortunately i can not see other riders in my country (Tbilisi, Georgia)  with speedhub and can not check it.

Cruz

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Re: Rough friction Feeling
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2018, 02:26:29 PM »
I felt friction and a slight vibration through the soles of my cycling shoes in certain gears when I first got my rohloff. Had it for about a year now and those issues have now gone. Your rohloff issues are normal and will dissipate given time.
Thank you for responding. Your answer gave me a relax feel. I feel exactly same things and vibration also.
So it need some time and millage for breaking. Will continue riding and will see.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 02:30:25 PM by Cruz »

Cruz

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Re: Rough friction Feeling
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2018, 02:33:38 PM »
I also bought a second hand rohloff which is about 11 years old. I would say that this operates a lot more quietly and smoothly than my newer model. Obviously the newer one needs to be used a lot more. I would just try to forget about the noise/friction and just enjoy the rohloff experience. Once you have a rohloff you'll never go back to normal gears again. You may even like the rohloff that much you'll buy another 😀
Yes. i am very happy with that. But now i am not going to touring for long distance. because of that hub breaking moment. i live in city with terain and with a lot of uphills and downhills. So it is very easy with Rohloff to shif 4-8 speed at one time to ride comfortable