Author Topic: Rohloff Disk Brake  (Read 4552 times)

Pavel

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Re: Rohloff Disk Brake
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2018, 04:54:00 PM »
I assume you mean the Koolstop Salmon pads, I can't think of anything better on a regular (non-CSS) rim.

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I assume you have not invested anything into this project yet.  So, I will mention one other option for you to compare prices on.  There now is an Nomad fork that can take a disc brake. 
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-26-650b-thorn-nomad-disc-fork-yellow-gloss/?geoc=US
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-26-650b-thorn-nomad-disc-fork-matt-black-powder/?geoc=US

Thus, you could leave your Rohloff hub untouched and keep using rim brakes on your rear CSS rim.  You I assume would need a new front hub, you could avoid buying the special four bolt Rohloff disc and use a standard disc, new spokes for the front wheel, maybe the cost to build up a new wheel on either your existing rim or a new rim, etc.  I have no idea if you use a dynohub or not, etc.

I do not know which would cost more, the disc on front or disc on rear, but you might want to do that research.

If you replace the fork, you might want to get a new crown headset race installed on the fork before they ship it to you.  You would also need a new star nut.  And, I have no idea if you would need to cut the steerer tube or not.



I too am of the opinion that such is the best way to proceed.  If I could still cycle, that would be my approach.  I think that for a light thin wheel and tire a lot of difference in ride can be in the forks, but with the width of tyres and sturdy overbuilt tubes of a touring bike, the impact of the front forks is more theoretical than real.  As such, I'd have no problems going to disk brakes with those Godzilla inspired front disk Nomad forks. 

Seven overweight elephants could not bend the rear stays on a Nomad. No thinking need be done. 

My own hesitation towards going to a disk setup is how fiddly disk brakes can be.  But the thought of 650B tires, for me, wins the day.  Or would - if I still could.  :)

il padrone

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Re: Rohloff Disk Brake
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2018, 10:32:20 AM »
I also have a vague memory of there being another reason Thorn discouraged the use of maguras, but I can't find anything to substantiate it so I could be wrong.

I think it might be because repairing hydraulics on a world tour is more difficult than replacing a V-brake cable. Which is one of my own reasons for not having Magura rim brakes or (any) disc brakes on a touring bike.

I don't do expedition touring, but I reckon I could get repairs, workable spares or replacements for most of my bike components fairly easily in most small towns in the areas where I have toured, with the one notable exception of the Rohloff hub. The latter is supposed to break very infrequently, and Thorn/Rohloff seem to have a pretty good reputation of getting spares to remote places in a fairly short time.
Cable-discs have now been improved substantially with much more effective mechs. I even noticed that a friend who had a Topeak disc-corrected rack fail on him on tour, actually had clearance from his rear cable-disc brake to fit a standard Tubus Logo rack (MUCH stronger).

In all the time that I rode my Hayes hydraulic disc MTB dually I never had cause to do very much at all to the hose nor fluid, and it never failed on me in all sorts of rugged and testing riding. On top of that, the hydros used bog-standard DOT 4 fluid that any car mechanic can work with. A fluid change kit was a small repair item to carry.

il padrone

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Re: Rohloff Disk Brake
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2018, 10:38:27 AM »
I assume you have not invested anything into this project yet.  So, I will mention one other option for you to compare prices on.  There now is an Nomad fork that can take a disc brake. 
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-26-650b-thorn-nomad-disc-fork-yellow-gloss/?geoc=US
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-26-650b-thorn-nomad-disc-fork-matt-black-powder/?geoc=US

This is astounding news. Thank the deities that the lads at Thorn have seen the light and finally brought a front disc fork to market. I shall be scoping out all the costs to convert to discs all around. Not going to be cheap (new SON28, new Rohloff, disc brakes plus discs), but it shall happen eventually!

John Saxby

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Re: Rohloff Disk Brake
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2018, 06:46:46 PM »
Hey, welcome back, Pete!  Need more voices from Down Unda, not to mention your excellent photos, and long experience with these boikes of ours.

Cheers,  John

mickeg

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Re: Rohloff Disk Brake
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2018, 08:24:11 PM »
... Thank the deities that the lads at Thorn have seen the light and finally brought a front disc fork to market. I shall be scoping out all the costs to convert to discs all around. Not going to be cheap (new SON28, new Rohloff, disc brakes plus discs), but it shall happen eventually!

I built up another bike last year (not Thorn, a Titanium bike), the frame was only available in disc.  I bought the frame but saved some money by not buying their fork, used an older fork that I already had.  My fork was a rim brake fork.  Thus, that bike has rim brake front and disc on rear.  Quite frankly I am quite happy with the rim braking on that bike.  The only exception to my preference for rim brakes is that when raining, the disc is better.

But if you think you need a front disc that much, go for it.

Mike Ayling

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Re: Rohloff Disk Brake
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2018, 12:02:53 AM »
I assume you have not invested anything into this project yet.  So, I will mention one other option for you to compare prices on.  There now is an Nomad fork that can take a disc brake. 
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-26-650b-thorn-nomad-disc-fork-yellow-gloss/?geoc=US
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks/48-26-650b-thorn-nomad-disc-fork-matt-black-powder/?geoc=US

This is astounding news. Thank the deities that the lads at Thorn have seen the light and finally brought a front disc fork to market. I shall be scoping out all the costs to convert to discs all around. Not going to be cheap (new SON28, new Rohloff, disc brakes plus discs), but it shall happen eventually!

Pete,
You really need a new bike.
What about a Raven this time?

BTW what are your current thoughts on the CSS rims and the V brake blue pads?

Mike

il padrone

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Re: Rohloff Disk Brake
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2018, 10:47:05 AM »
Hello Mike
I really should go and join KBTC on a ride some day  ::) I believe that you may see my wife often enough on Sundays as you ride along the Dandenong Creek Trail and she is riding her Rohloff-equipped Giant Sedona to church at Boronia.

As for new bikes, the most likely candidate for us would be two Bike Friday New World Tourists to make international travel easier, or a Riese & Muller Load e-cargobike as a car-replacement.

The CSS rims have been great and are now up to 50,000 kms with the CSS seemingly rubbed off finally on the brake-track. The Swissstop Blue pads have been great for all sorts of braking, with only one or two times in cold, heavy rain when the braking was less-than desirable. I was caught out on Tuesday by the heavy rain and had a disturbingly poor braking experience on the descent of Boronia Rd to the right turn into Morack Rd. This got me thinking that maybe I am now better off with regular Koolstop Salmon pads rather than the Swisstop Blue. I will trial some regular pads as a stop-gap for the time being, but I have now ordered a disc-fork and a SON28 disc hub to convert the front end. Doing the rear end with a new Rohloff (or maybe new Rohloff shell) is a more complex and expensive step.

I shall try to keep you posted.

[edit] I was wrong, the CSS rims are only up to 41,000 kms at present.  Fully expect to get over 60,000 kms of life from them however.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 12:36:04 AM by il padrone »

mickeg

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Re: Rohloff Disk Brake
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2018, 01:37:28 PM »
...
The CSS rims have been great and are now up to 50,000 kms with the CSS seemingly rubbed off finally on the brake-track. The Swissstop Blue pads have been great for all sorts of braking, with only one or two times in cold, heavy rain when the braking was less-than desirable. I was caught out on Tuesday by the heavy rain and had a disturbingly poor braking experience on the descent of Boronia Rd to the right turn into Morack Rd. This got me thinking that maybe I am now better off with regular Koolstop Salmon pads rather than the Swisstop Blue. I will trial some regular pads as a stop-gap for the time being,
...

Going from the Swisstop Blue to Koolstop Salmon is going from one extreme to the other.  Some run of the mill average pads might work pretty well while the Salmon pads may be too much.

...
 I have now ordered a disc-fork and a SON28 disc hub to convert the front end. Doing the rear end with a new Rohloff (or maybe new Rohloff shell) is a more complex and expensive step.
...

I think that SJS can replace the non-disc shell piece with the disc variety pretty easily.  I am sure it is costly when you add in the Rohloff specific disc and a disc brake unit, but so is a new fork and new SON dynohub.

il padrone

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Re: Rohloff Disk Brake
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2018, 11:24:36 AM »
Front Thorn disc-fork, and the SON28 disc-hub have now arrived. Next decision is what type of disc brake to get - Cable or hydraulic? My LBS recommends cable-discs (Avid BB7) for the longer term reliability and especially serviceability in remote touring locations. He does acknowledge that hydraulics are going to be better, but that the cable-discs are everything I am likely to need for touring rides, even on rough and steep descents. Some people suggest that I should go to a different LBS, but this bloke is one of the best in the local area.

Other experiences or advice?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 02:08:52 PM by il padrone »

DAntrim

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Re: Rohloff Disk Brake
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2018, 03:37:07 PM »
I use Avid BB7's  on both the Club tour and Mercury and other non Thorn bikes I've had in the past and never had any issues, changing the pads can be a bit frustrating at times but the long life of sintered pad's makes this less of a chore. Also being cable I can fix them myself.

I have no experience with hydraulic disc's so can't comment on them

Carlos

mickeg

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Re: Rohloff Disk Brake
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2018, 03:45:57 PM »
Front Thorn disc-fork, and the SON28 disc-hub have now arrived. Next decision is what type of disc brake to get - Cable or hydraulic? My LBS recommends cable-discs (Avid BB7) for the longer term reliability and especially serviceability in remote touring locations. ...
Other experiences or advice?

I built up a bike about a year ago, frame can only take disc, not rim brakes.  I have not used any other discs before that.  I chose a TRP Spyre cable operated brake.  I find it easy to center the brake unit on the disc and easy to adjust.  It does not have massive stopping power, my front brake on that bike is  V brakes with Salmon pads and the front brake works better than the disc when it is dry.  When wet, the disc is better.

I have twice tried to adjust someones disc brake, I am not a disc expert, but the people that asked me to adjust their brakes were more clueless than me.  One was a BB7 and the other I am not sure what it was.  All the cable  operated disc brakes (other than TRP) push one pad against the rotor, the rotor then flexes to contact the stationary pad.  I found that the TRP that moves both pads towards the rotor to be much easier to adjust than the other brakes.

If you do not go with the TRP, the BB7 has quite a following, so that likely is also a good choice.

The TRP pads I believe are semi-metalic pads, it is my understanding that resin pads wear faster but provide better stopping, I bought some resin pads but have not tried them yet.

Two photos of my Spyre attached.

The TRP instructions specifically recommended compressionless brake cable housing.  I just happened to have some in my box of spares that I could use.  For the rear I think the compressionless brake housing improves braking, but the cable run on a front brake is shorter so I do not know if that is important for the front or not.  Compressionless shifter housing can't be used on brakes, but you probably already knew that, only brake housing can be used.

I agree for touring you want cable, not hydraulic.

ADDENDUM - I think the Spyre is for road brake levers, a different model for mountain type levers.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 03:55:41 PM by mickeg »

bobs

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Re: Rohloff Disk Brake
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2018, 05:30:17 PM »
I think you will find Avid BB7 push both pads.

il padrone

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Re: Rohloff Disk Brake
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2018, 02:21:02 PM »
I think that SJS can replace the non-disc shell piece with the disc variety pretty easily.  I am sure it is costly when you add in the Rohloff specific disc and a disc brake unit, but so is a new fork and new SON dynohub.
That's all OK. SJS is in the UK; I am in Australia.

My son can do the replacement job quite readily for me, he has become quite the trickster for pulling down the Rohloff hub just "because he was bored"  ::) ;D

Danneaux

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Re: Rohloff Disk Brake
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2018, 10:40:44 PM »
Quote
Doing the rear end with a new Rohloff (or maybe new Rohloff shell) is a more complex and expensive step.
Pete, I think only the disc end cap and a fresh gasket, not the entire hub shell. Dave Whittle can best advise here as to parts and labor for conversion cost or SJS Cycles could if you drop them a note.

While your son is certainly accomplished at Rohloff stripping (respect!), getting the parts as an individual might be difficult -- potentially hazardous if they are not original Rohloff pieces available only to authorized service outlets. See: https://www.rohloff.de/en/company/news/news/press-release-january-2014/

All the best,

Dan.

il padrone

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Re: Rohloff Disk Brake
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2018, 03:03:02 PM »
Yes, I have realised that it is just the end-cap that needs to be replaced. I should be able to source the parts and gasket quite OK; between on-line stores, the local distributor, and quite a few friends who are quite skilled at working with Rohloff hubs. Our hubs are all well outside the Rohloff waranty period as well, so it is 'caveat emptor'  ;)

I would certainly not be sending my hub to SJS, halfway around the world. We have a local distributor here, though being in Queensland, over 2000 kms away, even that is a risk and a large time delay, and I have sadly heard of one or two less-than-satisfactory results on service/warranty work (that admittedly was later rectified).
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 03:08:07 PM by il padrone »