Author Topic: Bar bags anyone?  (Read 402 times)

pavel

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Re: Bar bags anyone?
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2018, 05:08:34 AM »

I have never seen a Carradry bag,

You should aspire to better company rather than the rabble I suspect you flock with.  ;)

martinf

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Re: Bar bags anyone?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2018, 08:50:08 AM »
Reading around the topic there seems to be a debate about using one at all. Some say that a barbag interfers with steering, balance and that it can crowd out handlebar space.

I've had 4 handlebar bags over the years, but never really liked them.

3 of them were small, the best of these for waterproofing and ease of access to contents was a small Carradice cotton duck fabric over a plastic shell. On this one I didn't like the mounting system, and the bag tended to bounce on rough surfaces. I have now converted it to use as minimalist luggage for my Brompton - on the proprietary Brompton bracket fixed to the head tube, so much lower and doesn't affect handling at all.

I had a small (less than 5 litres) commercially made bag that simply strapped to the handlebars (centre of stem and over the brake hoods). Used this for a few years, but it wasn't convenient for quick removal to take valuables with me when leaving the bike locked up.

I made myself a minimalist handlebar bag (about 3 litres) that straps with Velcro to the same 3 points (centre of stem and brake hoods). This is small enough not to make any handling difference, and removes fairly quickly, leaving no mounting hardware. I use this bag very occasionally on my lightweight derailleur bike when I need a little more space than is available in my Carradice saddlebag.

I also made myself a large handlebar bag, but quickly abandoned it as I didn't like the interference with access to the handlebars and the effect on steering  when loaded. I converted this to a rear rack bag, but never used it much.

____________________________________________

To solve the problem of quickly removing valuables to take with me when parking the bike I have two methods:

- for day trips and other lightly-loaded riding I use a Carradice saddlebag with a quick release mount. Downside is that the mount is more or less permanently fixed to the Brooks saddle.

- when carrying more luggage I use a rucksack. Mostly a very light folding rucksack (about 15 litres), but sometimes a more substantial one, depending on whether I intend to walk far or just explore a town. The small rucksack generally goes into the top of one of my rear panniers, so protected from rain and easily accessed with the snaplock and drawcord closure on my Ortlieb Bikepacker panniers. Exceptionally, if I fill the pannier completely (food stop, etc.), I strap the rucksack on top of the rear rack. If I have more than 4 panniers (rare) I strap the extra luggage on top of the rear rack and the small rucksack goes in one of the front panniers.

If using a bigger rucksack, I just strap it over the rear panniers. I use bin liners inside to keep stuff dry.

B cereus

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Re: Bar bags anyone?
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2018, 04:57:26 PM »
I'm a fan of bar bags, useful for all the reasons that others have mentioned.

I've got three Ortlieb bags, two ultimate 5's and one of indeterminate age. Other brands  may have better internal organisation but the Ortliebs win on waterproofing and it doesn't take much ingenuity to customise the Ortlieb bags to suit whatever you're carrying.  That's what I've done with the oldest of the three which serves to carry my equally ancient digital SLR. I guess that also answers the question about whether the weight affects the steering. It's a Fuji S3  Pro and weighs more than the bike.

Incidentally I much prefer the Rixen & Kaul Clickfix handlebar fittings. The support cable is just a simple length of plastic covered cable and, when it wears out, it can be replaced with a length of suitably sheathed redundant brake cable.

mickeg

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Re: Bar bags anyone?
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2018, 05:36:10 PM »
...
Incidentally I much prefer the Rixen & Kaul Clickfix handlebar fittings. The support cable is just a simple length of plastic covered cable and, when it wears out, it can be replaced with a length of suitably sheathed redundant brake cable.

Good point. 

If you change the setup and your cable no longer functions, I have often wrapped a bit of electrical tape around a bit of left over brake cable that I had cut off but not discarded yet.  The electrical tape was to protect the stem finish where the cable pulls on it.  I stopped discarding left over brake cable when I install a new cable because I have done this more than once.

pavel

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Re: Bar bags anyone?
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2018, 06:48:27 PM »
I have a caradry bag and find it superior to my former Ortlieb bar bag for two reasons. one is minor, and that is that i slightly prefer the super c clasps tp the snaps I had on my old Ortliebs.  The other one is of no consequence if it does not bother someone, but it's "nails on the chalkboard" for me - the rounded bottom.  Sure it saves steps in construction and the welding of seams thus being cheaper, but i want a flat bottom (on my bar bags) so things stay put and so the divider does not ride up, leaving small parts in thr middle underneath.  Both the super C and Carra dry geat that righ as well as what shal likely be my next bag - the Arkels. 

I've however stopped using my Carra dry handlebar bag because it takes too much fiddling to close,  The new style clasps just don't work for me but worse, one has to stretch the top over the sides to close the bag after opening and it's fiddly, often needing two hands.  And then the wheel flops. This is all a bit of deal for me because I'm in the old, long established and unwise habit of reaching into my bag, getting my camera out, taking a few shots and putting it back - while on the go.  One of the reasons I want a bike that handles "less lively".  You may be thinking I'm fussy.  You are right.  I have ta get the details just so or Zen eludes me.  Zen and a out of time connection with the natural world is why I those shimano spd's on in the first place.  :)

Oh and I too think the Clickfix system is kind of great, but am always looking at the over engineered Arkels website, just the same.

PH

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Re: Bar bags anyone?
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2018, 10:54:55 PM »
I've had a Vaude Aqua Box* for around 10 years, before that an Ortlieb (Replaced after crash damage, I don't think you could wear these things out!) Quality wise I don't think there's anything between them.  I'd have gone for another Ortlieb but the design had changed and I didn't like the curved top.  Otherwise the two bags are very similar, similar enough for the Ortlieb camera insert to fit the Vaude.  I leave that insert in all the time whether I'm carrying camera stuff or not, it reduces my tendency to carry too much, stops stuff rattling around and of course adds some cushioning to valuables. The Vaude's lid pulls down easily and is a fairly snug fit, when I close it while cycling I don't bother with the press studs.  The Ortlieb's map case is better than the Vaude's, (Probably better than any other) I notice it's now an expensive addition, mine came with the bag.  The one included with the Vaude is OK, has always kept the rain off, but isn't submersible like the Ortlieb.  Since I've been using GPS it doesn't get much use.
As mentioned above, the Ortlieb bag fits the Klick-fix bracket, but this doesn't work the other way round. I also have a small R&K bar bag so it's useful to have a common bracket. Several other makes including Carradice use the same one.

Handling - Yes any weight re-distribution is going to have an effect on handling, but don't overestimate it, even a stuffed bar bag will probably be placing less weight forward than a change in hand position - from flats to hoods on a drop bar or grips to bar ends on flats - (I'm now wondering how to set up a test to demonstrate this...) I don't always use the bag and after several months of not, the first time feels odd, but it doesn't take many miles to forget about it.  The handlebar flopping when off the bike is an annoyance, but something you learn to anticipate.

I've recently changed bikes and haven't yet fitted the bag, haven't yet used it to tour, like others I dislike the aesthetics of the bracket with no bag on it.  I have been looking at alternatives, the popularity of bike packing has led to a whole lot of other choices, I've been considering a top tub bag, but haven't seen one with the easy attachment of a bar bag.
EDIT - * I've noticed there's now another version of this bag, nothing like mine...
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 12:33:36 PM by PH »

RonS

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Re: Bar bags anyone?
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2018, 01:48:46 AM »
Just to throw another choice into the mix, I have an Arkel bag. To me, the mounting system looks much more elegant, for want of a better word, than the Ortlieb. Being all aluminum (yes I know Canadians and Americans spell and pronounce it differently than everyone else in the world), it is probably stronger than the Rixen Kaul mount, however, in the real world, either will last a long, long time. The main compartment is completely waterproof by way of a liner. The outer pockets are not. There are no dividers, it's just a large empty compartment. A waterproof cover is available, at extra cost of course, to make everything waterproof.

A quick glance at the Arkel UK website, and SJS, show it to be about the same price as a higher end Ortlieb. The biggest Ortlieb bag i noticed on the SJS site was 8.5 litres. Arkel come in 7.5 or 10 litres.

As others have noted, it does make the steering heavier. If I go for a ride without it, the bike feels livelier to start, but I quickly adapt either way.

Hope this helps more than it adds to the dilemma.

mickeg

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Re: Bar bags anyone?
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2018, 04:08:32 AM »
A friend of mine has Arkel panniers and handlebar bag in red color.  The red fades very badly in the sun.


pavel

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Re: Bar bags anyone?
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2018, 07:38:19 AM »
A friend of mine has Arkel panniers and handlebar bag in red color.  The red fades very badly in the sun.


That would have me looking down at the bag as I pedal along, smiling as the memory of past trips float back.  Signs of much intended use are a big positive, sort of like a well worn in pair of faded Levi's just look more comfortable.  Ortliebs don't fade - the plastic is cold german efficiency.  Where's the soul? 

Donerol

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Re: Bar bags anyone?
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2018, 06:37:06 PM »
I have an Ortlieb Ultimate 6 compact bag on my Audax - it's narrow enough, just, to fit between the STI washing lines. On my Raven Tour I have room for a Carradice Super C. Both are mounted on R&K brackets.

I prefer the Super C as it has side pockets for bits and pieces, a  good map holder, and opens away from the rider so that it is easier to get into, but it is too wide for the Audax.

I find a bar bag very convenient for keeping wallet, phone, small camera and nibbles. It's not enough weight to affect the steering, though of course the front wheel flops when I'm off the bike.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 06:38:47 PM by Donerol »

mickeg

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Re: Bar bags anyone?
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2018, 08:16:08 PM »
I do not understand what you meant by STI washing lines.  Did you mean how the Shimano cables come straight out the side to where you wanted to put your bar bag?

If so, that friend of mine with his faded Arkel red bag was using V brake noodles to change the direction of the cables.  I cropped the photo out of a much bigger photo, so it is not a great photo, but it shows what I mean.  You can also see how faded his red bar bag is.


RonS

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Re: Bar bags anyone?
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2018, 08:58:40 PM »
Yes, that is one faded red bag. I have a black one, and yellow panniers, neither of which are showing signs of fading. Glad i didn't get red.

I'll note that the Arkel also opens away from the rider, which to me looks more convenient than the Ortlieb system.

Donerol

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Re: Bar bags anyone?
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2018, 10:03:45 PM »
I do not understand what you meant by STI washing lines.  Did you mean how the Shimano cables come straight out the side to where you wanted to put your bar bag?

Yes, that's what I mean. I've heard about the noodle trick but can't work out how to do it with the noodles I have. I can see the principle from your picture but it is too fuzzy to show how the cable housing fits into the noodle at the 'far' end (i.e. not the lever end).

mickeg

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Re: Bar bags anyone?
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2018, 01:59:25 AM »
I can't figure out why it would not fit ok using the V brake noodles.

On the first page of this thread, I posted several photos.  The first photo is of my Nomad handlebar bag mounting and handlebars, I have a HubBub adapter to place my Rohloff shifter on the end of my handlebar.  I did not want the cables to extend straight towards my headtube, so I also used V brake noodles for my Rohloff cables.  You could refer to that photo to see what I mean.  My only mistake was not buying black painted noodles.

You would need some new inner cables, so it would take some time to set it up.  Or, use your current rear as your new front so you only need one new cable, but need to re-install both.

The friend of mine that is in the photo, he also installed some in-line cable adjusters so he can adjust his cable while riding.  I do not recall if on that bike if he has cable adjusters on the downtube, I think he does not.

That faded Arkel bag, at the time of the photo it had done several short tours plus one cross-USA trip of 70 plus days, so it had seen a lot of sun.  My black Louis Garneau bags in my photos on page one of this thread are not as black as they used to be, but are still a lot closer to black than they are to gray.  Regarding the discussion of bag lid closures (snaps, magnets, etc.) my bags have a zipper.  I find it easy to open with one hand but usually very difficult to close the zipper with one hand.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2018, 02:03:30 AM by mickeg »

pavel

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Re: Bar bags anyone?
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2018, 03:22:12 AM »
which rear bags are those?