Author Topic: Splined sprocket reversal for dummies  (Read 1244 times)

j-ms

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Splined sprocket reversal for dummies
« on: December 11, 2017, 06:38:29 PM »
Hi

Could anyone provide me with an idiots' guide to reversing a splined sprocket ?  Pictures, video etc would be even better.  Our chains (KMC X1 as supplied by SJS) have reached the end of their lives (after more than 10,000 Kms) and I want to reverse the sprockets at the same time as fitting new chains.

Thanks
Jean-Marc

mickeg

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Re: Splined sprocket reversal for dummies
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2017, 06:54:06 PM »
I assume you are using an older thread on type instead of a newer splined type.

This might help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqpgkyQ5tkI

Using the skewer is important, does not have to be really tight but tight enough that the tool can't slip off.

Some have complained that it is hard to get off.  I had no problem but I used big chain whip and big wrench.


« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 06:59:08 PM by mickeg »

j-ms

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Re: Splined sprocket reversal for dummies
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2017, 06:59:20 PM »
Hi Mick

I've seen this video but I am looking for one on the splined sprocket (our Ravens are only a year old and the splined sprockets came out in eraly 2016 IIRC).

Jean-Marc

mickeg

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Re: Splined sprocket reversal for dummies
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2017, 07:01:41 PM »
Mine is threaded on.

I have not seen the splined one but I think there is a spring clip that holds the sprocket onto a carrier.  Remove the spring clip and try to make sure it does not fly to far when you do that.

martinf

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Re: Splined sprocket reversal for dummies
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2017, 08:25:23 PM »
I have not seen the splined one but I think there is a spring clip that holds the sprocket onto a carrier.  Remove the spring clip and try to make sure it does not fly to far when you do that.

You're right about the spring clip (but I call it a circlip) for the recent splined Rohloff sprockets. These are used on almost all the gear hubs that I have owned or maintained, the main exception being my Rohloffs that have screw-on sprockets.

Generally quite easy to lever off the spring clip/circlip with a thin screwdiver, and clip it back on with fingers.

But recently I did find the circlip on one of the Shimano Nexus 8 hubs a bit difficult to refit, perhaps because it was fairly new and because the garage was particularly cold (fingers not working so well?).

For removal, try doing this before you remove the wheel from the frame, then the spring clip/circlip won't fly anywhere.

geocycle

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Re: Splined sprocket reversal for dummies
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2017, 08:35:24 PM »
Yes, as Martin says simply push a thin screwdriver behind the circlip and lever off, then lift the sprocket vertically off, clean everything up, turn and replace circlip.
 

macspud

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Re: Splined sprocket reversal for dummies
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2017, 08:36:35 PM »
Hi

Could anyone provide me with an idiots' guide to reversing a splined sprocket ?  Pictures, video etc would be even better.  Our chains (KMC X1 as supplied by SJS) have reached the end of their lives (after more than 10,000 Kms) and I want to reverse the sprockets at the same time as fitting new chains.

Thanks
Jean-Marc

Jean-Marc, if you read through the thread "Rohloff Splined Sprockets (Ease of swapping)" http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12095.0  you should get a better idea. Dan added some useful photos on page 2.

Really it's just a case of using a small screw driver to pry off the surclip. slipping off the spocket, reversing it and putting back on. there are three deeper cut spline releifs on the outer surclip retention part for ease of inserting a pry tool (wee flat blade screwdriver) to remove the surclip.

spline releifs shown here: https://www.rohloff.de/en/company/news/news/modification-from-screw-sprocket-to-pluck-in-sprocket/  click on the photo of the splined carier to see in detail.



« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 06:34:20 AM by macspud »

John Saxby

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Re: Splined sprocket reversal for dummies
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2017, 10:18:08 PM »
Jean-Marc, my experience with circlips (mostly as found on old English motorcycles) has been that:

(i) the easiest ones to remove are those which have little ears on them with a nice wee hole in each, so that you can use circlip pliers; and

(ii) then there are the circlips which can be removed by inserting a thin blade under one end, such as a quality screwdriver. These circlips may have a raised end to make it easier to insert your pry blade, or there may be depressions in the housing. Either way,I've found that they can have a life of their own, and make a break for freedom if they require any significant leverage. Dunno how you approach such things, but I'd feel much better knowing you're wearing some eye protection when you pry the little critters loose. (Or: maybe cover the circlip with your free hand, or with a plastic bag?)

Good luck!

Danneaux

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Re: Splined sprocket reversal for dummies
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2017, 07:35:51 AM »
Quote
Could anyone provide me with an idiots' guide to reversing a splined sprocket ?  Pictures, video etc would be even better
Hi Jean-Marc!

Really, reversing a splined Rohloff sprocket on its carrier is very easy. When I got mine, I took photos showing how the sprocket is retained on the carrier by a spring clip. Perhaps seeing the details will demystify the process to a degree:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12095.msg90639#msg90639
...and...
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=12095.msg90640#msg90640

The splined carrier stays on the hub and does not need to be removed to remove and reverse the sprocket.

If you look closely at the hub, you will see several pry slots on the face of the carrier. Simply insert a slotted screwdriver blade into one of the slots nearest the end of the circlip, give a slight twist so the clip can rise above the carrier's retaining groove, and the circlip will pop off. Pull the sprocket directly toward you, flip it over, and replace it on the carrier. Then just start one end of the circlip in the carrier's circumferential groove and lever the other end into place with the slotted screwdriver blade inserted in the slot -- Done!  :)

I echo John's caution to wear eye protection throughout as circlips do tend to pop off unexpectedly and it'd be a pity to catch one in the eye.  :o Helps to keep your lips closed also. Don't ask how I know this.  ;)

Hoping this helps.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 08:41:28 AM by Danneaux »

mickeg

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Re: Splined sprocket reversal for dummies
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2017, 03:41:02 PM »
...
...
.   Helps to keep your lips closed also. Don't ask how I know this.  ;)
...

I am sticking with the thread on type sprockets as long as I can.

John Saxby

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Re: Splined sprocket reversal for dummies
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2017, 04:15:14 PM »
Quote
I am sticking with the thread on type sprockets as long as I can.

Me too.  Mind you, this is making a virtue out of necessity (but of course--why not??), as I have a spare threaded sprocket.

On another, related topic: 10,000 kms from your X-1 chains is pretty good, Jean-Marc. Then again, at 30 a pop...maybe I'll stick with my Cdn$15 x8.93's.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 04:20:28 PM by John Saxby »

mickeg

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Re: Splined sprocket reversal for dummies
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2017, 06:46:57 PM »
Quote
I am sticking with the thread on type sprockets as long as I can.

Me too.  Mind you, this is making a virtue out of necessity (but of course--why not??), as I have a spare threaded sprocket.
..

I did not want my chainline messed up so I bought another threaded one when I heard about the new splined ones coming out.  It was weeks (or months?) later when I heard that there was a thinner carrier that did not mess up the chainline as much, but by then I already had a spare threaded one.

Since most of my miles (or km) each year are on my deraileur bikes, it will be a long long time before I need another sprocket.

***

A side note:  If I recall correctly, some have complained that the threaded on sprockets are harder to get off the longer that they have been on the hub.  I suspect that with the new splined ones, if you leave the splined carrier on the hub for a long period of time, that could be REALLY hard to get off.

Danneaux

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Re: Splined sprocket reversal for dummies
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2017, 06:52:07 PM »
Quote
I suspect that with the new splined ones, if you leave the splined carrier on the hub for a long period of time, that could be REALLY hard to get off.
My impression as well, George.

All the best,

Dan.

j-ms

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Re: Splined sprocket reversal for dummies
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2017, 08:21:10 PM »
Hi Guys

Thanks for the great informative replies.  I haven't had a chance to process everything because I've just arrived back after a rather rough day.  I'll go through everything again tomorrow to make sure I get a better grip.

I'm not going to reverse the sprockets now because they really don't show much wear and I read last night (on the Rohloff site) that the sprockets should only be reversed once, so I'll only reverse them when they do show sufficient wear.  In the meantime I have replaced the great KMC X1's with cheap and cheerful (usually verbalized as cheap and nasty in South Africa) KMC Z51's at less than a quarter of the price of the X1's (which, after searching for three weeks, aren't available in South Africa).  I'm just going to have to keep a closer eye on the the health of the chains than I have had to in the past until I can get some X1's shipped in.

Jean-Marc

geocycle

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Re: Splined sprocket reversal for dummies
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2017, 10:49:48 AM »
I read last night (on the Rohloff site) that the sprockets should only be reversed once,
That's interesting, I've started swapping mine annually now I have moved to splined and it is much easier.  Can anyone explain why they should only be reversed once?