Author Topic: Nomad frame is not indestructible  (Read 228 times)

julio

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Nomad frame is not indestructible
« on: November 03, 2017, 07:34:53 PM »
Frank Revelo broke his Nomad frame   :o

http://www.frankrevelo.com/hiking/biking_nomad2012.htm


Danneaux

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Re: Nomad frame is not indestructible
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2017, 08:45:03 PM »
A very unusual failure, and Thrn made good on a replacement frame under warranty.

Frank's  discussion of the failure seems pretty complete. Normally this joint is under compression while the rider is on the bike. It is possible cyclic loads from pushing the bike might have been a contributing factor, but there are so few failures at this joint, it is hard to say.

On the rare occasions I need to get off and push, I try to push at two points simultaneously -- about 1/3 of my efforts go into the handlebars for steering and 2/3 of my effort go into pulling on the seatpost or saddle cantle plate so the pressure is distributed in compression.

Best,

Dan.

jags

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Re: Nomad frame is not indestructible
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2017, 10:32:38 PM »
are Thorn frames guaranteed for life to original  owner?
i forgot to ask when i bought the Audax. ::)

anto.

Danneaux

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Re: Nomad frame is not indestructible
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2017, 11:14:46 PM »
Anto, the Thorn owner's manual ( http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornBikeOwnerManual2Web.pdf ) has this statement wrt warranty coverage:
Quote
Frame and forks
The frame and forks have a lifetime warranty against defective manufacture and materials (except
the Thorn Voyager and MENU2 which carry 5 year warranties).
This warranty applies to complete bike purchases and for the original purchaser only.
This warranty does not cover accident, wear and tear, misuse, abuse or improper maintenance.
After the first year, the outcome of any lifetime warranty claim is at the sole discretion of Thorn
Cycles Ltd.
  Emphasis mine.

I have always read this to mean the lifetime frame/fork warranty applies to complete bike purchases, not frame purchases. As stated, it would apply to the original owner only.

All the best,

Dan.

mickeg

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Re: Nomad frame is not indestructible
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2017, 01:05:51 AM »
Frank Revelo broke his Nomad frame   :o

http://www.frankrevelo.com/hiking/biking_nomad2012.htm



I thought this happened a few years ago, was this recent?

David Simpson

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Re: Nomad frame is not indestructible
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2017, 02:00:45 AM »
It happened during his "Nov 2016 to Jan 2017 Mojave Desert Bicycle Tour".

- DaveS

julio

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Re: Nomad frame is not indestructible
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2017, 04:15:37 AM »
once or twice I weighed the Nomad with all the panniers full by the top tube with my right hand.
Maybe is it risky to do that ?..

As well, if one day i need to carry my Nomad in a truck for example, what are the catches to be favored ? or should i remove the panniers from the bike ?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 07:16:35 PM by julio »

martinf

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Re: Nomad frame is not indestructible
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2017, 06:14:56 AM »
once or twice I weighed the Nomad with all the saddlebags full by the top tube with my right hand.
Maybe is it risky to do that ?..

As well, if one day i need to carry my Nomad in a truck for example, what are the catches to be favored ? or must I remove the saddlebags from the bike ?

I'd say risky for your back, rather than for the bike.

If I have to lift a loaded touring bike onto anything high, I have to remove most of the bags first, too heavy for me otherwise.

mickeg

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Re: Nomad frame is not indestructible
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2017, 01:09:57 PM »
once or twice I weighed the Nomad with all the saddlebags full by the top tube with my right hand.
Maybe is it risky to do that ?..
...

I think it very unlikely that using muscle power alone without any extra leverage could cause a mechanical frame failure. 

By saddle bags, I assumed you really meant panniers.  I think I could lift all of my panniers OR my Nomad, but not both simultaneously.  Perhaps you pack lighter than I do.

PH

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Re: Nomad frame is not indestructible
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2017, 02:53:18 PM »
Things break, there is no such thing as indestructible. 
Looks like a weld failure to me, maybe some minor contamination when constructed, it's rare but it happens to all welders. There is a bit of craft to neat TIG welding*, but it's a very reliable form of joining tubes, such failures are rare even on the cheapest bikes, (In fact it's easier to get a good joint on cheaper tubes due to the thickness of material.)  One of the advantages of exposed welded joints is you can see what's going on. I've seen a lugged frame come apart at the top tube/head tube joint, there wasn't much holding it together but that had been hidden by the lug and this was made by a very respected frame builder.
I've broken** - Aluminium handlebar, steel fork and titainium frame, there's good reason I steer clear of carbon!

* I had a go at night school thirty years ago, interesting and worth learning but I was never going to make a living at it.
**none of which were Thorn products
 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2017, 05:12:46 PM by PH »

jags

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Re: Nomad frame is not indestructible
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2017, 04:47:26 PM »
Ph please don't ask me for a load of my New Audax ;D ;D ;D




anto.

John Saxby

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Re: Nomad frame is not indestructible
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2017, 10:23:24 PM »
Not quite at the same level of Serious Bizness and a broken Nomad frame in the outback, but a couple of years ago I bought a city bike from a local social enterprise which tidies up and re-sells donated bike. Mine is a 12-year-old Norco Monterey hybrid.  After a day or two I noticed a braking from the stem/head-tube area. Looking at it more closely I saw that there was a 2" crack from the top lip of the head tube at front.

I guess I could have taken it back, and asked for something similar, but at the time, this was the only bike in the shop that suited what I needed. So, I mixed up some JB Weld, pushed it into the crack, clamped the sucker so it oozed a bit, smoothed the lot and let it be.  The next day I sanded it down, covered it with a nice bit of silver/grey reflective tape, and since then, no creaks from the head tube.

Not quite I'd recommend Frank add to his spares kit, at least for the type of problem he had, but JB Weld is brilliant stuff.

mickeg

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Re: Nomad frame is not indestructible
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2017, 10:35:22 PM »
Not quite at the same level of Serious Bizness and a broken Nomad frame in the outback, but a couple of years ago I bought a city bike from a local social enterprise which tidies up and re-sells donated bike. Mine is a 12-year-old Norco Monterey hybrid.  After a day or two I noticed a braking from the stem/head-tube area. Looking at it more closely I saw that there was a 2" crack from the top lip of the head tube at front.

I guess I could have taken it back, and asked for something similar, but at the time, this was the only bike in the shop that suited what I needed. So, I mixed up some JB Weld, pushed it into the crack, clamped the sucker so it oozed a bit, smoothed the lot and let it be.  The next day I sanded it down, covered it with a nice bit of silver/grey reflective tape, and since then, no creaks from the head tube.

Not quite I'd recommend Frank add to his spares kit, at least for the type of problem he had, but JB Weld is brilliant stuff.

I would never have tried that, I would have chucked it.  Have you considered soaking some fiberglass tape in epoxy glue and wrapping that around as an extra reinforcement?

martinf

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Re: Nomad frame is not indestructible
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2017, 09:30:18 AM »
The advantage of steel over more exotic materials (aluminium, titanium, carbon) is that you can get it rebrazed (or at a pinch, welded).

From about 1981 to 1998 I had a very old twin-lateral frame ladies bike with 650B tyres as my "leave anywhere" utility bike.

After a few years of heavy use this started coming undone where the twin laterals attach to the seat tube, so I took it to my LBS who repaired it by brazing a top tube in and adding a bit of braze to the twin laterals. In 1998 the repair started cracking, so I decided to scrap the frame.

I replaced it with an old diamond frame bike, probably from the 1950's. This had ineffective brakes, so I got my LBS to braze cantilever studs to the seatstays and front forks. The 650B tyres used on this bike started getting hard to find, so a few years ago I bought a Raven Tour frame to build up a replacement utility bike with 26" tyres. But just after I did this I found out that the "new" 26.5" tyre size was the same as 650B, so the old bike has had a new lease of life.

mickeg

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Re: Nomad frame is not indestructible
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2017, 06:14:06 PM »
...But just after I did this I found out that the "new" 26.5" tyre size was the same as 650B, so the old bike has had a new lease of life.

Nope - the new 27.5 (not 26.5) is 650b.  Bead seat diameter of 584 mm is the key number.