Bottoms and Brooks Saddles

[StillOld]

Just got back from doing the Hebridean Way (Vatersay to Butt of Lewis) and have a question.....my saddle is very comfortable and has worn in quite nicely over the last 1500 miles or so....it got slightly wet on one side overnight whilst camping.

That wet side dried out quickly but after a couple of days I noticed that the left/wet side of my saddle was more indented than the right. Now this could be nothing to do with it getting wet but just my shape.

I haven't adjusted/tightened the saddle as yet.

Is it normal to wear unevenly or should it be a mirror image....I am not aware of any imperfections in my rear end other than age related. 

PS.Ride Report to follow.

[geocycle]

There are reports of saddles wearing asymmetrically because of imperfections in the leather. If this is very marked get in touch with Brooks.  If a saddle gets wet I'd dry it out slowly rather than using heat.  Once dry use the proofhide again.

However, most of us are not sitting squarely on the bike.  I routinely wear a hole in the right inner thigh of trousers where they rub against the saddle skirt.  I also wear right hand grips more quickly than the left!

[mickeg]

If your saddle was pretty new, did not yet have any treatment from Proofide (or similar) and one side got damp, I would not be surprised if that side was more indented.

If the saddle feels fine when you ride it, I would not worry about it.

I always put a rain cover over my saddle at night to prevent it from getting wet in the dew.

I did some leather tooling when I was in scouts as a kid.  From that I know that wet leather takes a new shape quite easily.

And from that I know that if you apply any treatment to the leather, that slows its ability to take a new shape, so I never apply Proofide until a new saddle has started to take the shape I want it to take.  I also make sure that a new untreated saddle is never exposed to rain.

***

I find some new Brooks saddles are hard as a rock when new, especially the Brooks Pro.  I put a new Pro on my newest touring bike a couple months ago.  I do not recall where I heard this, but someone suggested that one way to accelerate break in on a new Brooks is to dampen teh leather directly under the sit bones area and take a short ride.  I did that, I placed some small pieces of paper toweling that was soaked in water on the underside of a Brooks at those sit bone areas to let the leather get moist in those two spots.  Then went for a short ride.  That accelerated break in.  My break in method before this saddle was to soak the entire saddle in cold water for about 10 to 15 seconds before a short ride.  Note that I said seconds, not minutes, you only want the leather to get slightly damp, not wet.  After the paper towel method, I still wanted to accelerate things a bit more, so I did a 10 second soak and a short ride.  Then let the saddle dry out for several days.  At this point it was about 70 percent to where I wanted the shape to be so I decided to quit using water at this point.  I applied a layer of Proofide to top and bottom.  And started riding the bike like I normally do around home.  I did a 5 day bike tour about a month later so I put another layer of Proofide on top and bottom before that trip.  At the start of the trip I had 233 miles (~375 km) on the saddle and it worked great for all five days.  We had some rain on that trip, but with a leather saddle I am always careful to use a rain cover on it when it is wet.  That saddle now is very comfortable, it has about 600 miles (~900 km) on it.

[Matt2matt2002]

Looking forward to reading about your Hebredian Way trip.
I did it in May on my Raven with a Brooks.
Wet for sure but held up well. I think it was only outside x2. Saddle cover on over night but moisture creeps in.
Haven't had to tweak mine in the 3 years I've had it. And last year it carried me through Sri Lanka with a month of temperatures nudging 30°.
Bomb and bum proof.

[Danneaux]

Saddle cover on over night but moisture creeps in.

Doubling-up on covers is the answer, Matt. I always have and I believe George (mickeg) does also.

I have a nice Brooks 'round-the-world coated nylon cover, the one with the Frank Patterson drawing on it. That goes on first, covered by a plastic disposable shopping bag or (longer term) cheap bathing cap. The idea is increased water resistance in case of a hole in one cover, yet making the lot appear less theft-attractive.

Dew can be a wet as rain, so the cover(s) *always* go on when I am stopped for any length of time and certainly overnight. If it is actively raining, then I grab the cover before dismounting, then lean over the saddle to shield it while placing the cover...all to keep the leather as dry as possible.

Best,

Dan.

[mickeg]

And if you do not have fenders (mudguards), make sure you put some Proofide under the saddle, not just on top.

My Iceland trip, I left the fenders at home because my luggage was full.  I was surprised how much dirt (formerly wet mud) was stuck to the underside of my Brooks saddle that had been thrown up from the rear tire.  I always had the saddle cover on it when it was wet outside, but the saddle cover does not cover the underside that well.

[geocycle]

I'm a bit of a rebel when it comes to saddle covers.  I almost never use one!  If the bike is going to be left outside in the rain I will use a carrier bag from my favourite supermarket (and I do use mudguards). Otherwise I'd never ride on the saddle with a cover and the shed the bike lives in is also damp. It is outside partly exposed to the elements when in the bike sheds at work -if rain is forecast I do deploy the bag. Thinking about it mine probably has quite a high moisture content for most of the time and is never dried quickly,

I'm not recommending this routine and Dan and George are certainly doing it better, but a brooks b17's can be incredibly resilient.  Mine's done 35,000 miles+ in 15 years, has been regularly proofhided but hardly ever retensioned.  The bottom line (no pun intended) is the cow it came from!

[StillOld]

Thank you everyone for your advice....I do use a Brooks cover 99% of the time , even when just stopping for a break. However on this occasion I used a whole bike cover as I was on the beach and wanted to hide it. Unfortunately the cover is old and allowed it to get damp where it touched. I have only proofed it once and that was after 500 miles or so.

I was considering damping the other side and going for a ride but I don't know if the indentation is normal and had nothing to do with the damp day. It could be that I am uneven in the bottom department and had never noticed the indentation till now.

I will ride for a while longer to see how it feels before doing anything drastic.

[mickeg]

Regarding the asymmetry, I suspect that as long as it does not bother you that everything will be fine.  Eventually it conforms to your shape better so if the asymmetry was from uneven dampness, that asymmetry should be reduced over time.  But if you apply more Proofide, that may slow the rate that it conforms to your shape.

Geocycle's comments on riding a lot in the damp with minimal re-tennsioning of the saddle is likely the result of sufficient Proofide treatments.  That stuff is very good at adding water repellentcy to the leather.  A saddle that has had enough treatment should be able to handle some wet weather, but I prefer to be excessively cautious when there is no downside to that caution.

[geocycle]

Geocycle's comments on riding a lot in the damp with minimal re-tennsioning of the saddle is likely the result of sufficient Proofide treatments.  That stuff is very good at adding water repellentcy to the leather.  A saddle that has had enough treatment should be able to handle some wet weather, but I prefer to be excessively cautious when there is no downside to that caution.

Yes I have used a lot of proofhide.  I'm not endorsing my idle routine, just pointing out the potential resilience of these saddles even when given minimal TLC.  That said, I do think leather is highly variable and I probably have a particularly tough bit of cow, in fact maybe it's from an auroch... There are also unsubstantiated comments out on the internet that leather saddles have become less rigid over the years which helps breaking in but not longevity.

[mickeg]

A friend of mine bought a new Selle Anatomica.  And he rode it wet which allowed it to stretch out a lot.  He says that he loves it this shape, but there is no way I could ride it this way.

[geocycle]

Ouch, rather him than me. Could end up performing Pergolesi on that one!

[IanW]

I have a Brooks Swift (because I always found a B17 too wide for my comfort).
I have had it for more than 6 years. Definitely the most comfortable saddle that I have ever had.
It got Proofided thoroughly on both surfaces when brand new and subsequently on the upper surface once every couple of years.
I usually put a Brooks proofed nylon cover over it when left the bike is left any where / time it might get rained upon, but not infallibly.
It is only just beginning to show visible signs of permanently deforming to my shape.
But just to note that the most comfortable saddle inclination is definitely quite nose-up such that there is a slight tendency to slide backwards.
Maybe this is why how people who swear by the confort of an otherwise level-mounted Brooks saddle that has become significantly swaybacked?

[Danneaux]

Amazing how our "bottom line" preferences vary! 

I find others' "just starting to shape to me" is my "time to sell on". I prefer the original domed, undented shape. When I start to see dents, my saddles go on to new homes because I find the dished shape hurts not only my sit bones, but it feels like I'm straddling a ridge right down the center. Though it doesn't look like it, it sure feels like it!

Part of it may be my positioning on the bike. I prefer my saddle top level (ever so slightly nose-down to begin) and I like my back at a 45° angle with my hands atop the brake hoods of my drop handlebars...splitting my upper body weight evenly between bottom and hands. This means I don't put so much weight on my saddles, so they take a good while to get to this state. The saddle shown has well over 20,000km on it. In fact, I've had to go with softer elastomers on my Thudbuster seatposts simply because I don't heavily enough on the saddles to activate the recommended Medium elastomers. Part of that may be due to my light, fast "hummingbird" cadence; I suspect at least some of my body weight is supported by my legs while pedaling. Also, I have noted my saddles take considerably longer to break in when mounted on Thudbusters. They do isolate me -- and the saddle -- from the force of big bumps.

I probably should switch to B.17 Champion Specials because the leather is thicker...certainly this has proven helpful on one of mine. On the other hand, the price increment is substantial compared to the Champion Standard and I can recover a greater proportion of the cost in resale with the cheaper saddle, so it probably evens out.

The saddle shown is the same cover on its third set (second replacement set) of rails. I just de-riveted, swapped over, and re-riveted with new, larger diameter Brooks copper rivets...a simple procedure that is amazingly fast and easy once you get the hang of it.

All the best,

Dan.

[mickeg]

IanW, you are not the only one that finds the B17 too wide.  I use the Pro on two bikes, one of the Pros was only purchased a couple months ago.  And I use the Conquest on four bikes.  The Conquest is essentially a sprung Pro. 

I can use the B17 or the Flyer when I sit more upright, but not when I push into the wind by using the drops.  The Pros and Conquests work much better for me when I lean more forward.  I have used a Flyer when I pretend my Nomad is a mountain bike, then I am less likely to use the drops.