Author Topic: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?  (Read 2374 times)

Danneaux

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Re: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2017, 01:22:38 AM »
Quote
I have heard of canister stoves also being confiscated by TSA, but I am not sure if that was in a carry on or checked luggage.
Oh! One last thing...I left my partially full fuel cartridges along with other things in my Bucharest airport hotel just before I flew out, taking care to let the desk manager know there were free items to distribute as she saw fit; I gave her a list and bagged everything with a note written in English and Romanian so there could be no doubt (and so the very honest maid staff would not get into trouble). She kept my older helmet for her husband who commuted through city traffic - much better and safer than none at all. My pedals went to one of the kitchen staff who had been riding with a carriage bolt through the crank eye, the stove cartridges went to someone for their little portable barbecue at home, and the canned/packaged food and toiletries were evenly distributed.

Leaving these things ensured I would make my weight limit -- I did, by 1kg! -- to avoid overage charges on the return flight. Also, the exchange rate was such these were valued and valuable items for the hotel staff, far from trash or discards. I was delighted they could make use of them as I was loathe to discard something that might be helpful. The best form of recycling.

Best,

Dan.

mickeg

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Re: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2017, 03:10:06 AM »
...
Leaving these things ensured I would make my weight limit -- I did, by 1kg!
...
I was delighted they could make use of them as I was loathe to discard something that might be helpful. The best form of recycling.
...

A luggage scale is the travelers best friend.

I wore my helmet onto the plane on each flight, as I did not want to risk it being damaged in my luggage.  One airline employee commented that the planes were pretty safe these days.

Two people (I assume two people) left two half full bottles of extremely good whiskey on a free shelf at the campground in Reykjavik before they left.  I made sure that it was put to very good use too.  Would hate to see that go to waste.  But it was hard work indeed to make sure that it was all properly recycled.

rualexander

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Re: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2017, 01:09:19 PM »
A washed out Trangia bottle and burner can't be any more of a danger on a plane than all those bottles of booze in the catering trolleys, overhead lockers, and in passengers' luggage.

pavel

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Re: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2017, 05:21:02 PM »
I used to smoke the occasional cigar and had what's called a bullet cutter.  It is a 38 caliber bullet where the casing has been separated and acts as a holder attached to a keychain, and the bullet is a silvered bullet shaped end, with a round cutter, which when closed inserts inside the brass case.

I heard that even when separated and shown to be what is pretty obviously not a real bullet - the TSA bunch take it.

What I want to know is what happens to all those expensive items?  Do they hold a monthly "bargain-bin" sale? Or do they get some cigars and go camping?

mickeg

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Re: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2017, 05:47:59 PM »
...
 - the TSA bunch take it.

What I want to know is what happens to all those expensive items?  Do they hold a monthly "bargain-bin" sale? Or do they get some cigars and go camping?

I have heard that the stuff is auctioned off in lots.  Not sure if there is sorting, where you would bid on a crate of pocket knives vs a pallet of wines & spirits or if it is totally unsorted.

I am quite sure that TSA employees cannot keep any of it. 

Danneaux

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Re: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2017, 07:19:50 PM »
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What I want to know is what happens to all those expensive items?  Do they hold a monthly "bargain-bin" sale? Or do they get some cigars and go camping?
Interesting article:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/the-weird-afterlife-of-banned-tsa-items/2015/01/22/129fc192-9768-11e4-aabd-d0b93ff613d5_story.html?utm_term=.a4daa6a481a8

I have bought several Swiss Army Knifes on eBay that eventually filtered through the process. Very inexpensive, but ultimately the low price reflected the poor quality and condition of the examples. No matter; in my case, I wanted a couple of utility knives for the shop and garden...the kind you use to scrape mud out of boot lugs., etc. For USD$2 each, I couldn't complain.

Best,

Dan.

julio

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Re: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2018, 03:40:04 PM »
Hi all,

I bought this one : https://www.aventurenordique.com/omnifuel-primus.html?utm_source=googleshopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIt9rW_e7_2AIVqbztCh2HNQV7EAQYAyABEgJPyPD_BwE

And in France i prefer to use "essence c" or "gaz" because it's cleaner ..

On the other hand obroad, i'll use what i find .. Can you write to me a list of the different fuels, from the cleanest to the dirtiest please ?

As well, as all multifuels stove, they are noisy and i would like to find a silencer like this one : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf4by9LC7EA

The problem from France it's a bit expensive (50-60 euros).. does anyone know a good deal ?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 03:41:54 PM by julio »

mickeg

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Re: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2018, 05:21:59 PM »
Hi all,

I bought this one : https://www.aventurenordique.com/omnifuel-primus.html?utm_source=googleshopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIt9rW_e7_2AIVqbztCh2HNQV7EAQYAyABEgJPyPD_BwE

And in France i prefer to use "essence c" or "gaz" because it's cleaner ..

On the other hand obroad, i'll use what i find .. Can you write to me a list of the different fuels, from the cleanest to the dirtiest please ?

As well, as all multifuels stove, they are noisy and i would like to find a silencer like this one : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf4by9LC7EA

The problem from France it's a bit expensive (50-60 euros).. does anyone know a good deal ?

I have the first generation of the Omnifuel.  Basically the same as you have but some parts were re-designed.

Cleanest to dirtiest, I assume you mean from the perspective of leaving soot on your pots or on the stove. 

The fuel that we call kerosene in USA is likely the dirtiest.  Primus says that stove can also burn jet fuel and diesel fuel.  Maybe it can burn diesel number 1 which is similar to kerosene, but diesel number 2 is a terrible fuel in that stove.  I do not remember which jet fuels were closest to kerosene, but one of them is, maybe jet A?  Some fuel stations (or maybe most?) that sell diesel just sell a single diesel fuel that they call diesel but do not distinguish between 1 and 2, that often is mostly diesel 2 in summer.  I would avoid that.

Medium, I would say is Coleman fuel.  I am referring to that by brand name, there are other comparable brands too.

Cleanest in that stove would be the butane or isobutane mixtures that come in a fuel canister.  These fuels are in gas form at above freezing temperatures.  But these fuels cost much more.  I tried this fuel in the Omnifuel once just to see how it worked, but if I am using that fuel I carry a much lighter smaller stove that is designed for that fuel only.

I often burn a mix of Coleman fuel and kerosene, about one part Coleman and two or three parts kerosene, but I carry a small bottle of Coleman fuel and use that to preheat the generator in the stove.  I use the kerosene jet for that fuel mix.  I find that the mix just seems to work better than pure kerosene.

The quiet burners can be difficult to simmer with as you can get an underburn in some quiet type burners.  I have some old Phoebus stoves that I have not used for decades that had quiet burners that were very susceptible to an underburn - that is where the flame is inside the stove instead of where it should be.  One of my photos above showed my 111T with a quiet burner, that also occasionally has an underburn.

Danneaux

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Re: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2018, 06:30:42 PM »
Quote
Can you write to me a list of the different fuels, from the cleanest to the dirtiest please ?
Julien,

Your request sent me digging through my links on the topic. The most useful ones to answer your question are here:
http://zenstoves.net/Fuels.htm
https://thesummitregister.com/liquid-fuel-stoves-101-choosing-the-right-fuel-for-your-liquid-fuel-stove/
http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/expert-advice/guide-to-fuel-and-gas

"Dirty" can refer to the deposits left on your pot as well as environmental implications. For example, empty cartridges must be packed out and (generally, there are exceptions) cannot be refilled else they result in trash left in pristine areas and still represent lost resources.

As a tangential but potentially useful aside...

For ultralight cooking, I use Esbit chemical tablets in either a folding titanium pot stand/tablet holder:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002AQET2C/ref=asc_df_B002AQET2C5354189/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B002AQET2C&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167119746601&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9642454398623081769&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033029&hvtargid=pla-306560132871 )
...or in a little cookset dedicated to tablet use:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001UERXOQ/ref=asc_df_B001UERXOQ5354189/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B001UERXOQ&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167119746601&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10596403413877306084&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033029&hvtargid=pla-79168394486
...I also have the Bluet version, which I prefer because it incorporates a small shutter to regulate the airflow and can extend the life of the tablet fuel.
These tablet stoves all burn silently.
For lightweight but short-term cooking needs (<1 week), I use one of a number or spirit/alcohol stoves I own, with matching pot holders and cookware. These also burn silently. I like my Mini-Trangia burner/cookset: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000LN7HUC/ref=asc_df_B000LN7HUC5354189/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B000LN7HUC&linkCode=df0&hvadid=238327576703&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=273948494915117293&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033029&hvtargid=pla-392794280090 One I have can be converted between spirit burner and tablet fuels: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001UEL76Q/ref=asc_df_B001UEL76Q5354189/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=394997&creativeASIN=B001UEL76Q&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167119746601&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15859745897234702761&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033029&hvtargid=pla-84153121286

I have a whole variety of stands to use with Trangia and Trangia-like spirit burners. Some incorporate windscreens. One is a cross-piece that drops onto the top and is both lightweight and remarkably stable while I use rocks to provide wind protection. Some of my spirit burners I made from drinks cans and they work well but cannot self-store fuel.
A useful link comparing tablets to alcohol spirits: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/70526/

For a hotter burn and greatest convenience (and because alcohol stoves are banned by the Forest Service in fire season in some of the areas I travel in summer), I used one of several cartridge stoves I own. I use iso-butane cartridges for a little better cold-weather performance on the mountain passes I must cross between the Valley where I love and the deserts on the other side. These burn not silently but very quietly. I have several cartridge stoves but the ones I return to most often are the cheap "orange box" (http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4637.msg22737#msg22737 ) stoves from eBay that include a piezoelectric sparker. They have proven reliable and good value for me but I wish they had three pot supports instead of four (for better leveling). I use a snap-on support to give the cartridge a wider, more stable base.
I have largely abandoned my stoves that use white gas only and are equipped with burner plates (i.e. my Optimus 8R, which also has a very small tank, no pump, and requires priming though it does have a self-cleaning orifice needle). These are very noisy, a bit like a blowtorch, and are very poor to use if you are in a stealth camp.
For longer trips (>1 week), I take my multi-fuel stove with a full tank and -- on longer trips -- a spare 1l fuel bottle as well. I have a couple of Coleman Peak 1/eXponent [sic] Multi-fuel stoves. Here is a listing on Amazon, though the often sell for <USD$50 on eBay: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009VC7QK/ref=asc_df_B0009VC7QK5354190/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B0009VC7QK&linkCode=df0&hvadid=194838933099&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=7958120814722940247&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9033029&hvtargid=pla-313972873574 For me in my use, they have proven reliable and trouble-free and have a large fuel tank in the bottom of the one-piece design (no separate fuel bottle), a good built-in windscreen and three stable feet, one of which is adjustable to level,a reliable built-in pump, and a burner that can be set to simmer. With a change of generator tube, the stove can burn white gas/naptha, kerosene/jet fuel, or unleaded petrol (which I generally use in the Great Basin as refills with Coleman fuel/white gas/naptha can be very scarce and hard to find...only one small can in all of Cedarville California at the hardware store, none on Adel or Burns Oregon or Denio Nevada when I went through last and stopped at Bobby Putney's store there). The stove packs in two square aluminum boxes that can double as pots, but I use them for storage as they have rounded corners that won't damage my bags or contents. This stove is the heaviest empty or fueled but becomes the lightest-weight option on longer trips due to several factors: 1) Fuel capacity (large tanks so I don't generally have to carry a spare fuel bottle), 2) excellent fuel economy, and 3) greater heat density/hotter BTU output: It burns so hot it heats food quickly and can be turned off sooner than the other stoves, so less fuel is used. It is pretty quiet and uses a burner similar to the "quiet" one shown in the YouTube video linked earlier in this thread. On "simmer" it is as quiet as my cartridge stoves.

Keep in mind, my use is primarily in remote areas of the American West where I am rarely near sources of replacement fuel and so must pack my own. In Europe, it was very different and I adjusted accordingly, depending primarily on a cartridge stove and secondarily on a spirit stove (Mini-Trangia kit). I also had to make sure the stoves I brought would pass airline standards. I passed tables in Paris and Los Angeles holding many confiscated stoves and I did not want mine to be one of them.

So, to summarize: My lightest stoves are great for shorter trips but become heavier (due to extra carried fuel and lower heat output) the longer I carry/use them. My heaviest stoves become the lightest when used over longer periods. In-between, size, weight, and convenience make the selection. For day trips and overnighters, I take whatever I wish but generally gravitate to tablets, spirits (alcohol) or cartridge fuels. The less efficient stoves are the quietest, the more efficient ones are a bit noisier but nothing like the old plate burners I used in the past.

I have at times seriously considered a small forge-stove such as the Sierra/Zip stove:
http://www.zzstove.com/sierra.html
These burn wood, pine cones, and twigs found along the way and burn hot due to a small electric fan powered by a AA cell battery I could recharge with my dynohub, making me truly independent from commercial fuels. I have so far been put off by the packed size, weight, price, and most of all, the smell and soot associated with their use. In waterproof bags, it would not take long for the smell of wood smoke to permeate everything. For these reasons I've held off so far, but I can feel the desire for one taking hold again as I contemplate the next touring season. I may make one of my own using a couple of nested cans and a PC cooling fan.

I have found n+1 works as well for stoves as for bikes.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2018, 09:34:10 PM by Danneaux »

julio

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Re: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2018, 07:44:16 PM »
Thank you for your answers .. i will study this   :)

mickeg

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Re: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2018, 12:13:44 AM »
Thank you for your answers .. i will study this   :)

I just looked at your profile, it says you are in France.  I have never been there, but I have heard that the most common butane type of canisters in France are the ones that are not threaded.  But your Omnifuel would only work on the threaded ones.  On the first page of this thread I had a photo of two butane canisters, one is threaded and one is not.  There are also the older puncture type canisters, but the adapter to convert those to a threaded type of stove is quite rare and possibly no longer made.

So, I think you will be using only liquid fuels in your new stove.  I think you will be happiest with Coleman fuel or a similar type of fuel.  There probably are You Tube videos that show how to prime a liquid fuel stove and possibly videos that show your particular stove.

StuntPilot

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Re: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2018, 04:17:13 PM »
mickeg - these adapters are still available. There are two types, one for the self-sealing gas canister and one for the puncture style gas canister.

Its true that in France the un-threaded self sealing or older puncture style are readily available but not the threaded ones.

For the self-sealing gas cartridges ...

https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/stoves-c12/stove-accessories-c132/edelrid-valve-cartridge-adaptor-p454

and for the older puncture style ones ...

https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/stoves-c12/stove-accessories-c132/edelrid-puncture-cartridge-adaptor-p390

I have the first one, and it works well. Would have to be careful with the puncture style adapter case it got knocked but reports are that it works well.

julio

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Re: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2018, 04:54:39 PM »
Yes it is correct, specially in France we use canister for our stoves "campingaz" since a long time ..

I bought too the first adaptor for 20 euros, it is a bit heavy, maybe a little heavier than a compact gaz stove.

However, of course you can find threaded canisters but only in specialty stores, in contrary to "campingaz" canisters, where you can buy them almost everywhere

Otherwise, i use "essence c or f " (i think you call them "white gaz" in usa..) rather than Coleman or Primus fuel because it's cheaper and they are similar about their cleanliness..
On the other hand, i don't know if "Coleman fuel" is as dangerous (explosive) than "white gaz" or less explosive ..which can be more reassuring to use.

julio

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Re: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2018, 05:04:14 PM »

I often burn a mix of Coleman fuel and kerosene, about one part Coleman and two or three parts kerosene, but I carry a small bottle of Coleman fuel and use that to preheat the generator in the stove.  I use the kerosene jet for that fuel mix.  I find that the mix just seems to work better than pure kerosene.

It is a good idea but it requires to be organized   :)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 05:05:55 PM by julio »

mickeg

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Re: Do multi-fuel stoves include alcohol for fuel?
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2018, 06:59:05 PM »
...
and for the older puncture style ones ...

https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co.uk/equipment-c3/stoves-c12/stove-accessories-c132/edelrid-puncture-cartridge-adaptor-p390

I have the first one, and it works well. Would have to be careful with the puncture style adapter case it got knocked but reports are that it works well.

I have the one for the puncture type canisters.  WOrks quite well.  In the photo I have an old Primus Powercook on the adapter, two spare canisters next to it.  (Poor photo, I cropped that from another photo.)  Mine is teh only one I have ever seen, bought it so long ago I was sure that they were now an antique.  It does sit rather tall, but most canister type stoves do.

I have the old Bluet stove that fit on those canisters and the blue plastic stand for it, but could not find it for that trip so I brought the adapter and a different stove instead.

***

Yes it is correct, specially in France we use canister for our stoves "campingaz" since a long time ..

I bought too the first adaptor for 20 euros, it is a bit heavy, maybe a little heavier than a compact gaz stove.

However, of course you can find threaded canisters but only in specialty stores, in contrary to "campingaz" canisters, where you can buy them almost everywhere

Otherwise, i use "essence c or f " (i think you call them "white gaz" in usa..) rather than Coleman or Primus fuel because it's cheaper and they are similar about their cleanliness..
On the other hand, i don't know if "Coleman fuel" is as dangerous (explosive) than "white gaz" or less explosive ..which can be more reassuring to use.

Some people use the term white gas as a synonym to Coleman fuel.  The fuel that you bought probably is the same or very similar to Coleman fuel.