Author Topic: Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive WITHDRAWN  (Read 834 times)

zomarzi

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Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive WITHDRAWN
« on: March 02, 2017, 03:05:37 PM »
WITHDRAWN
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 04:57:04 PM by zomarzi »

bobs

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Re: Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive Set up
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2017, 05:27:54 PM »
If only I could get it to fit. >:(

zomarzi

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Re: Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive Set up
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2017, 08:06:15 PM »
 ;)

Danneaux

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Re: Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive Set up
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2017, 09:18:13 PM »
I have a hacksaw and jubilee clips I can lend you, Bob...
 :o ;) :D

Best,

Dan.

bobs

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Re: Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive Set up
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2017, 09:38:59 PM »
I know how what's required  just can't justify the cost of fitting  a splitter and respray.

Bob

Andre Jute

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Re: Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive Set up
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2017, 10:39:14 PM »
A Gates belt is not adjustable by removing links. Before you take a hacksaw to your bike's frame, you also need to know that the crank to sprocket centre to centre distance is the same. The OP should tell us the precise frame model and size.

pavel

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Re: Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive Set up
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2017, 04:23:17 PM »
all proper Thorns have an eccentric BB, so that takes care of the last bit of setup, once the combo gets you close. But yeah, knowing the ring sizes is important.  I wonder how the math goes to figure suitability out?

Andre Jute

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Re: Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive WITHDRAWN
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2017, 07:18:43 PM »
A Rohloff installation is very forgiving of a slack chain, so adjustment isn't hyper-critical. The same can't be said of the Gates Drive belt -- it's basically an automobile overhead cam belt (Gates' main business is automobile auxiliary drive belts) which destroys itself if it is poorly adjusted. So the question to be answered before fitting a Gates belt is whether there will be enough adjustment, given the CtC drive length and size of the two toothed wheelies (I think Gates limits these anyway, the same way Rohloff and Hebie do) and the available belt lengths (they're closed endless loops, so you take what Gates makes), to get the right tension. It seems to me that a minimum of half an inch should do it (same as for metal chains), but somebody sober -- these days a single aperitif knocks me out -- had better check my logic. In addition, I seem to remember that Gates warns that you absolutely must have a perfectly straight chainline.

Danneaux

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Re: Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive WITHDRAWN
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2017, 07:42:56 PM »
Quote
...to get the right tension. It seems to me that a minimum of half an inch should do it (same as for metal chains)...
"There's an app for that", Andre: http://www.gatescarbondrive.com/products/tools

More here: http://www.gatescarbondrive.com/~/media/files/gcd/techpdfs/gates-carbon-drive-tension-recommendations.pdf?la=en

Best,

Dan.

Andre Jute

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Re: Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive WITHDRAWN
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2017, 10:27:06 PM »
Six specialist tools! Nuts! I'm a toolfondler who doesn't care about the money those tools cost, but I owned several Citroen SM, in which where was no way to adjust the camshaft drive tension on the Maserati V6 (they left it off when they cut down the really good 4.2 litre V8 -- I had several of its superb, long-lasting 4.7 litre big brother as well -- to fit the very short SM engine bay behind the front-drive gearbox/diff), and it ruined the pleasure in a really good fast tourer knowing that sooner or later that absence would destroy another engine.

And on the other page you link, Dan, I discover that the tension "recommendations" aren't even firm, that purchasers of the Gates Drive are unpaid beta testers discovering the correct range of tensions for various classes of riders, at their own expense, of course. I've been an unpaid beta tester for Apple since Steve & Steve signed my first Mac in the hot plastic. I've learned my lesson: I'm not taking on Gates -- it could be a lifetime job.

Actually, my main beef is that I suspect that the Gates belt, with all those drive ridges and all that outside surface, will be a good deal dirtier than my narrow Chainglider, which is important to me since I cycle in street clothes, often light-colored.

pavel

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Re: Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive WITHDRAWN
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2017, 02:21:24 AM »
that belt ran really nicely on my Harley for about 30,000 miles, and it weighed a bit over 600 pounds before I put my 210 on it. Never touched it once after the first tune up, where it was supposedly checked over but nothing needed "doing". But when Harley first brought the belt drive out, the sky was falling for a few years then too. The harley belt is not shielded btw, except at the top so ones pant leg or something doesn't touch. No stones, no dirt, no anything but a smooth ride is all I ever got from the technology upgrade, so I see this as a created "theoretical" issue.

We are all so used to chain problems that we don't worry anymore. And if someone screws something up with a Gates - then everyone will blame the technology because it is new and even worse than the round earth rumor. I wonder if they had forums back in 1890, if we would ever have moved on to the safety bicycle in the first place.  ;)

That was the second Harley I've owned and a completely different ride from the first. I suspect the move to belt drive was part of why that bike ran so smoothly and was much more refined. It didn't need neither the bolts checked after every ride nor my fillings re-done.  :)  We should embrace progress, and give things a chance.  Especially if we have not used the product ourselves first, with a fair eye towards pluses and minuses.

If thorn doesn't build "it", many will go somewhere else.  I don't care for disk brakes for example - but I sure like that we finally get a choice. the Nomad is soooo close to perfection. So Gates possible.  Why not the choice.  I've been told by two builders that the break for the gates results in a stronger rear stay.  Much like the S&S couplings. Sure, they could loosen and hurl their rider down from the tallest mountain in Tibet, but .....

;)




Andre Jute

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Re: Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive WITHDRAWN
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2017, 04:40:15 PM »
I wonder if they had forums back in 1890, if we would ever have moved on to the safety bicycle in the first place.  ;)

Forums also do an exceptionally effective promotional job, so if they had forums in 1896 (a better base year than 1890), this is probably what a safety bicycle would look like in 2017:



Note the triangulated frame, the hammock seat stayed by two rods, the absence of a crossbar, the moustache bars (so much more versatile than drops), and the big chrome headlamp. It was literally a sort of mobile mini-Humber Bridge.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 04:42:34 PM by Andre Jute »

pavel

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Re: Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive WITHDRAWN
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2017, 05:30:27 PM »
I love that. I can see what is up ahead, even before cresting the summit! I can get at least three levels of bikepacking style front bags on that front tube(s) and finally take all I need.  The seat to handlebar ratio is sensible, without thirteen inches of stackers, srothe the rest of the world won't make fun of us anymore and it has safety in mind with that seat. Let go of the bars and slide off backwards quickly and in style.  Brilliant!

It's not fair that you Andre should be the only one with access to Andy's secret skunk works.  No fair at all.  When is Thorn releasing this? I want two - once Andy puts a Gates compatible rear splitter on, of course.  ;)

Danneaux

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Re: Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive WITHDRAWN
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2017, 07:25:18 PM »
Quote
When is Thorn releasing this?
If Andy did this, he -- and Thorn -- may be older than reckoned!  ;) ;)
The design dates back to at least the early 1890s when a UK patent was issued to Danish inventor Mikael Pedersen and produced in the English town of Dursley (some were called "Dursley-Pedersens" for this reason):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedersen_bicycle

Reproductions of the original continue to be made and people do indeed ride, even tour on them.

I have ridden one briefly. I think it would be an acquired taste.

Best,

Dan.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 07:31:44 PM by Danneaux »

David Simpson

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Re: Rohloff/Gates Carbon Belt Drive WITHDRAWN
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2017, 08:09:05 PM »
I have ridden one briefly. I think it would be an acquired taste.

Even its appearance is an acquired taste.

- DaveS