Author Topic: clicking bottom bracket  (Read 26032 times)

ají

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Re: clicking bottom bracket
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2016, 08:38:16 am »
update- just tightened up the BB screws and ive turned 1 click into 3 half clicks. hard to describe, but anyone remember this little fellow? EXACTLY LIKE THAT!


jags

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Re: clicking bottom bracket
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2016, 10:12:10 am »
jimmy cricket lol ;D

Paul S

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Re: clicking bottom bracket
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2016, 11:46:05 am »
in my opinion, everything seems to point to the eccentric and the BB shell. has anyone ever puts shims in their BBs?
I may need a new eccentric, this one is looking a bit holey now. i think the SJS website sells 2 sizes: one for the mercury, and another one (which is the one i think i need).

I don't think there is room for shims. You need the Gold Raven / MK2 shell for external bearings
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/bottom-brackets/eccentric-bottom-bracket-insert-fits-raven-mk2-sport-tour-etc-732mm-for-external-bearing-bottom-bracket-gold/

Seasons greetings,

Paul.
Peddle Power = Will Power...... & the right gears.

Matt2matt2002

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Re: clicking bottom bracket
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2016, 01:08:38 pm »
Interesting thread for me.
Here is my story.
Any comments very very welcome.

New EBB and bottom bracket fitted Feb 2016, 2,188 miles ago

New chain has done 6,000 miles – it’s been reversed and looks in great condition – always covered by the Chainglider.

I noticed the Chainglider was looking at a funny angle and would not line up correctly. Or rather, after realigning it, it would slip back.

Removed Chainglider and found chain to be very slack. I know it’s quite OK to be on the slack side but thought it could be damaging the inside of the Chainglider – but I saw no wear to be honest.
Decided to shorten the chain by one link and reused the connecting link.

Rotated the EBB until a good ‘slack’ tension was there (referring to the guide in the Thorn Brochure) and tightened up the 2 screws.

On first ride out there was a clicking noise.
Not the wheels, brakes, seat, mudguards or pedal spindles.
The click came at every 180 degree rotation.
It was not always linked to peddling hard up hill. Although it occurred more often when there was strain on the chain.

Towards the end of the ride I noticed a different click and looked down to see one of the cranks hitting the rear stay. The EBB had slide out a few cm.
Fortunately the 2 screws were still in place – but very slack. I was able to push the EBB back in, finger tighten the 2 screws and get home.

My thoughts at the time were that the chain link was causing the click – so I put a new one on. Retightened the bolts, kept the Chainglider off in case that was the cause and went out for another ride.
Clicking was still there.
Not constantly but when it was – it was at every 180 degree rotation of the peddle.

Maybe on a 10 mile ride I would hear it x3 times for less than a minute.
Again the bolts worked loose.

Returned home and decided the EBB was in the wrong position. I referred to the picture in the Thorn guide and maybe the screws were trying to pierce the EBB?

I rotated it slightly and retightened the x2 screws.
They haven’t come loose since then but on the x3 rides I have done since – the click is still there although less frequently.

Have I damaged the bottom bracket? I don’t have the tools to remove it – the work to fit it and the EBB was done by my LBS.

Above was written a month ago.
I have since turned the EBB slightly and retightened the x2 bolts.
I now have 2 clicks. Not all the time. Heard more often than not when weight on the pedals/ increasing speed.
I have tighten/checked the chainring nuts. They were not loose.

Clicks not linked to wheel rotation or sitting on Brooks saddle. Or brakes or rear rack.

There is no play in the cranks or EBB.

Looks like the EBB should be removed, checked and greased?

Matt
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

ají

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Re: clicking bottom bracket
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2016, 01:44:46 pm »
Hey Paul,
you see, ive got up and down movement in my EBB with the screws completely loosened. what i was thinking of doing is cutting up an aluminium can and sliding slithers in there to stop that rockin'. I'd be interested to know if other EBBs have this movement with screws unfastened.

Matt- so i take it you fitted an new shimano un55 cartridge too?
so clicking started after 2000 odd miles? sounds like the clicking started on a virtually unblemished eccentric (the gold aluminium thing)
do you do loaded touring?
otherwise your story reads very much like mine... "Clicking was still there.
Not constantly but when it was – it was at every 180 degree rotation of the peddle...Again the bolts worked loose...intermittent clicks"

i removed the cartridge from the eccentric, cleaned it up, even replaced it but the clicks continue, so i dont think you have to do that. i think that thing (shimano cartridge) is screwed in tight. personally, i think there could be some mismatch between the round shell (bottom of the frame) and the gold eccentric. i dont know if anyone else's eccentric moves around (up and down) in the shell with bolts removed.

standing next to the bike, have you applied pressure to the end of the pedal with your foot with the brakes applied? when i do that, the click occurs as i remove my weight, so it "clicks up". non drive side only.

i wonder if its possible refit a nomad without an eccentric?

Andrew

Paul S

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Re: clicking bottom bracket
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2016, 01:59:22 pm »
Hey Paul,
you see, ive got up and down movement in my EBB with the screws completely loosened. what i was thinking of doing is cutting up an aluminium can and sliding slithers in there to stop that rockin'. I'd be interested to know if other EBBs have this movement with screws unfastened.
i wonder if its possible refit a nomad without an eccentric?
Andrew

Yes there is a bit of movement with everything lose, there has to be, if for no other reason than to allow space for the Grease, if the fit was to tight the shell would seize at the drop of a hat. Personally I would not go  near cutting up cans etc.

Why on earth would you want to remove the eccentric & get into all of the other complications around adjustment of chain tension with the Hub?
Peddle Power = Will Power...... & the right gears.

ají

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Re: clicking bottom bracket
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2016, 02:09:22 pm »
I'm not sure why, its the first time I've put it out there.
I just imagine there must be other options. Maybe this could be a problem particular to eccentrics, or an associated vulnerability. Im trying to explore a variety of solutions.

The mechanics I've been speaking to have suggested shims.

Paul S

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Re: clicking bottom bracket
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2016, 02:19:31 pm »
I'm not sure why, its the first time I've put it out there.
I just imagine there must be other options. Maybe this could be a problem particular to eccentrics, or an associated vulnerability. Im trying to explore a variety of solutions.

The mechanics I've been speaking to have suggested shims.

Thorn / SJS Mechanics?
Peddle Power = Will Power...... & the right gears.

bobs

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Re: clicking bottom bracket
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2016, 03:06:48 pm »
How old is your rear cog. I went through all this, replacing chains etc only to find the rear cog needed replacement  which  solved the problem.

Bob

Paul S

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Re: clicking bottom bracket
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2016, 03:35:08 pm »
How old is your rear cog. I went through all this, replacing chains etc only to find the rear cog needed replacement  which  solved the problem.
Bob

According to the OP its a circa 2015 Nomad. Unless the mileage is excessive it seems a bit odd that components are worn out so soon ???

Paul.
Peddle Power = Will Power...... & the right gears.

Danneaux

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Re: clicking bottom bracket
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2016, 05:59:50 pm »
Found the little notebook where I um, note such things...  ;)

I experienced a similar click on one of my rando bikes. It used a Tange sealed cartridge bearing BB insert and was retained with Phil Wood rings (a better fit than the original retaining rings) which allowed a *very* slight amount of play. Even with the rings properly torqued to spec, there was a clicking similar to yours. My solution was to remove the rings and cartridge, clean off all the old grease, and then regrease, paying particular attention to greasing the *ends* of the BB insert.

Turned out the click was due to the left end of the cartridge working against the inside of the retaining ring. The grease on the end of the cartridge quietened the lot, problem solved.

Perhaps the end of your cartridge BB is fretting against the inside of the retention cup/ring?

That said, if you can get 'hold of a torque wrench, it will ensure the eccentric bolts are at the proper tension. I found there is a transient torque spike when turning the pointed ends of the grub screws into a fresh portion of the eccentric shell (i.e. on first retensioning after new). It takes a bit of oomph to pierce the anodized surface before the softer parent metal is reached. I have a feeling people stop on the initial runup and this may be why things loosen later. At the same time, it is possible to ovalize the BB shell on such designs if one gets too enthusiastic, so again a torque wrench is really handy here.

Best,

Dan. (...who offers this as one more data point)

Matt2matt2002

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Re: clicking bottom bracket
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2016, 09:09:28 pm »
And.....
After me thinking I had sorted out the correct position of the EBB I found one of the retaining bolts had worked free.

Why are they coming loose?
Is it because the position of the EBB isn't allowing them to bite deep?
Very strange.
Never drink and drive. You may hit a bump  and spill your drink

jags

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Re: clicking bottom bracket
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2016, 09:30:00 pm »
lot to be said for a good old fashion square taper BB. ;)

ají

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Re: clicking bottom bracket
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2016, 07:06:07 am »
I'm not sure why, its the first time I've put it out there.
I just imagine there must be other options. Maybe this could be a problem particular to eccentrics, or an associated vulnerability. Im trying to explore a variety of solutions.

The mechanics I've been speaking to have suggested shims.

Thorn / SJS Mechanics?

i was communicating with Dave about it for a while until he was all out of ideas. He didn’t answer the last 2 emails i sent him so I stopped sending him.
i had been in contact with andy nomad designer and test pilot about other matters but he didnt answer any of the emails i sent him on this clicking topic. again, i just stopped emailing.

ive taken it to a few *star* mechanics gruppo peloton mamil.  These guys take the bike, take the money, but dont fix it. take it back to them, and they offer to try again (no guarantees) but want money up front, and can’t guarantee how long they'll have it or how much it'll eventually cost me. Those beards are costly to coiffure. Then there’s the LBS boys on the corner who continually wont take money because they cant fix it. I stopped taking it to them, they’re just losing money on me and I can see they’re doing it tough anyway.

now im going to free community bike workshops run by FT bike mechanics in their time off (LBS, above). learning hands on skills, fixing up donated bikes to give away to the needy. week after week i go back, and they know then that the bike is still clicking despite what we tried the week before. They call me mr clicking and my theme song is “thorn in my side”.  Can you ever not get a song out of your head.  I shouldn’t really be there because I must seem like the poor little rich boy with the expensive new imported bike that’s causing hassles.  Still there’s something about seeing all those rejected and abandoned bikes left on roadsides come in by the truck load, get roadworthy, and get back out on the streets under people’s bums where they belong. The turnover is something to be seen. I love it how some people see old bikes as rubbish, and others just see the potential, the heritage of engineering, salvaging nearly everything that went into the complex original manufacture, even though it probably did originally come out of k-mart.  the only thing these guys want is to see more people riding. It was funny a couple of weeks back the old boy came out of his shipping container ‘office’ in his greasy dustcoat with the pens in the pocket, (picture sid james but minus the gags) disparagingly looked at me, then the bike, then me again and candidly retorted: “oh will you just throw that piece of rubbish out, it’s crap!!” the rest of us just looked at each other and practically wet ourselves.

apart from that course I’m consulting this forum, which i am finding very helpful.

Paul S

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Re: clicking bottom bracket
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2016, 07:51:18 am »
I'm not sure why, its the first time I've put it out there.
I just imagine there must be other options. Maybe this could be a problem particular to eccentrics, or an associated vulnerability. Im trying to explore a variety of solutions.

The mechanics I've been speaking to have suggested shims.

Thorn / SJS Mechanics?

ive taken it to a few *star* mechanics gruppo peloton mamil.  These guys take the bike, take the money, but dont fix it. take it back to them, and they offer to try again (no guarantees) but want money up front, and can’t guarantee how long they'll have it or how much it'll eventually cost me. Those beards are costly to coiffure. Then there’s the LBS boys on the corner who continually wont take money because they cant fix it. I stopped taking it to them, they’re just losing money on me and I can see they’re doing it tough anyway.

now im going to free community bike workshops run by FT bike mechanics in their time off (LBS, above). learning hands on skills, fixing up donated bikes to give away to the needy.

Good on ye chap!  8) It's been over 25 years since I used a Bike Shop for maintenance for very similar reasons.

Cheers,

Paul.
Peddle Power = Will Power...... & the right gears.